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Topic: sorting your collection (Read 10860 times) previous topic - next topic
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sorting your collection

Intrigued by the thread about 10 genres...
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....72499&st=25
...I think a 10-genre list is subjective and (to be useful) listener/collection-dependent.

However, I think it must be possible to split your collection into a handful of categories in terms of how it should be sorted.

e.g.
1. artist albums are usually sorted by artist
2. classical music is usually sorted by composer
3. compilations, show music, etc are sorted by title
4. audiobooks are sorted by author

There may be others - anyone think of any?

Sometimes it's a real still struggle - e.g. Adiemus, composed by Karl Jenkins, trying to be kind-of classical music (yeah, I know it's New Age according to wikipedia, but you should hear Karl Jenkins talk), performed by the London Philharmonic Orchestra and Miriam Stockley. I've always filed the physical CD under A. My physical CDs are in A-Z order combing 1,2+4 above into the one run, then separately A-Z classical, then separately classical compilations.

I'd be interested to hear how other people do it. I don't want to have genre folders, though I tend to make exceptions for Christmas and Children's (but even going that far, where does children's Christmas music go?  ). I want A-Z, and I want to "know" where things are in that, just like I did with my physical CDs.

You will tell me, of course, that with good tags and a good library organiser, the physical sorting of the files doesn't matter. True enough, but not when mp3s get transferred to lesser devices, or any other time where folder browsing is quicker.

Cheers,
David.

sorting your collection

Reply #1 –
* “Artist-oriented” sorted by the alphabet. Unfortunately by first name, as I don't have good enough metadata to automatically get it right (what to do about Alice Cooper?).  Some hacks employed:
- Stevie Ray Vaughan sorted as “Stevie Ray Vaughan” whether or not the album has Double Trouble on it. Likewise, Bruce Springsteen with or without E Street Band as “Bruce Springsteen”, Neil Young with or without Crazy Horse as “Neil Young”, Rainbow and Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow both as “Rainbow”. And a few others.
- Leading “The” fixed up. “Beatles, The”. Exception: “The The”. Other articles not fixed: “A Perfect Circle” under “A”. “Los Lobos” as-is.

* “Tribute albums” – various artists trying to cash in on your favourites' names – with the original artist as Album Artist, folder sorted by that one.  Added a suffix to folder name (Greek κ for κovers...). “Black Sabbath κ”.

* Various artists: Album artist set to some Greek letter (Δ) to get them after the Latin alphabet. Δ and then album title, effectively sorting this category by album.
- Soundtracks: [Movie title], music from. Not Music from [movie title]. Single-artist cases as the artist, e.g. AC/DC: Who Made Who

* Composer-oriented music (Classical, modern classical ...): Prefixed with a Greek Ψ (putting them after Δ), then by composer. ΨΔ for various composer-compilations, sorted by ... ehm ... inconsistent title

* Test CDs (those only containing test signals) and the very few karaokes: separate from everything.  Not even loaded in the fb2k media library.


Also, I organize bootlegs in a separate folder. And suffix artist name with yet another Greek. Same with videos playable in fb2k – foldername is artist suffixed.

sorting your collection

Reply #2 –
My folder tree is styled after my listening tendencies but still kind of flexible. It works I guess.
Code: [Select]
00. NEW MUSIC                (Downloads and rips end up here for cleanup)
01. SINGLES - 80'S            (onesy twosies from 80's)
02. SINGLES - Oldies            (Pre-80's-ish)
04. SINGLES - Pop            (Modern pop singles)
06. CLASSICAL                (Drills down by Composer, then "oeuvre")
08. SOUNDTRACK - COMPILATION        (Just sorted by album title)
09. FRANCOPHONE                (French language, by ARTIST\YEAR - ALBUM\..)
15. PLAYLISTS                (Current and folder for broken/archived)
25. CHRISTMAS                (Sorted by album title)
ACDC                    (Then here start regular artist folders...)
a-ha
Alice Cooper
Alice in Chains
...

sorting your collection

Reply #3 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Intrigued by the thread about 10 genres...
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....72499&st=25
...I think a 10-genre list is subjective and (to be useful) listener/collection-dependent.

However, I think it must be possible to split your collection into a handful of categories in terms of how it should be sorted.

e.g.
1. artist albums are usually sorted by artist
2. classical music is usually sorted by composer
3. compilations, show music, etc are sorted by title
4. audiobooks are sorted by author

There may be others - anyone think of any?


All are in folders as listed in the "artist" tag
For classical, that's by composer's last name, followed by first if necessary. (first name first in the composer tag)
Classical albums that are multi composer one performer, then by performer (blah blah symphony orchestra)
Most show music I have is by composer (ie Rogers and Hammerstein)

Quote
You will tell me, of course, that with good tags and a good library organiser, the physical sorting of the files doesn't matter. True enough, but not when mp3s get transferred to lesser devices, or any other time where folder browsing is quicker.


With many players  I can get to the album by tag, then "open containing folder"  (or send playlist to the DAP, and some will automatically convert flac to lossy in the process)

sorting your collection

Reply #4 –
I keep mine strictly artist/album. if its classical like you said its composer. soundtracks/christmas/tribute all get filed as various artists. i even tag them that way. ie the black sabbath tribute album is Various Artists/Nativity in Black/Various Artists - Nativity in Black - 01 - After Forever.mp3 even though Biohazard performed it. I like simplicity.

sorting your collection

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Mach-X on
I keep mine strictly artist/album. if its classical like you said its composer. soundtracks/christmas/tribute all get filed as various artists. i even tag them that way. ie the black sabbath tribute album is Various Artists/Nativity in Black/Various Artists - Nativity in Black - 01 - After Forever.mp3 even though Biohazard performed it. I like simplicity.


Why have various artists under "V"? At least I want it after or before the Latin's. I've put them after.

Collating to alphabet, is a locale-dependent issue though. English-speaking MS-Windows users could likely live their life happily ignorant about it as long as they only stick to a single Windows version, but different Windows installations may disagree over the order of 4 Non Blondes, 16 Horsepower and 1349, and not to mention (((S))) and !!!. Also, a leading whitespace (yes it is possible in NTFS although Windows easily screws it up!) could be before or after numbers.

The collation of numberings means that if you have a lot of band names starting with numbers, it could matter quite a bit how you choose to spell e.g. the Laibach side project “300 000 V.K.” a.k.a. “300,000 V.K.” a.k.a. “300 000 VK” or “300.000 VK” a.k.a. “300 000V.K”

sorting your collection

Reply #6 –
Confusion: album artist vs (track?) artist on single artist albums? What is point?

Album artist as composer - does actual artist go as (track) artist?

sorting your collection

Reply #7 –
Depends what you mean, and I suspect that (as with all tagging) there is no "right" answer, but here's mine:

1. None, but it doesn't hurt, and the extra tag per track takes up very little space.
2. The actual artist (i.e. the credited performer) should always be the track artist, regardless of the Album Artist tag.

sorting your collection

Reply #8 –
Album artist only. I leave track artist empty, hip hop albums are bad for this and some media players will use the track artist to catalogue and you have songs all over the place. Simpler to just leave it empty.

sorting your collection

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Mach-X on
Album artist only. I leave track artist empty, hip hop albums are bad for this and some media players will use the track artist to catalogue and you have songs all over the place. Simpler to just leave it empty.


But you use PERFORMER or such to identify Biohazard on After Forever?

sorting your collection

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Porcus on
Quote from: Mach-X on
Album artist only. I leave track artist empty, hip hop albums are bad for this and some media players will use the track artist to catalogue and you have songs all over the place. Simpler to just leave it empty.


But you use PERFORMER or such to identify Biohazard on After Forever?

Ha ha, actually I don't. Wasted bits as far as i am concerned. I would never choose that tag to select music to listen to. Neither do I put performer in my classical stuff. Perhaps it's blasphemy to some, but it's simplicity to me, besides it's not like I applied whiteout to the names on the cd jacket .

sorting your collection

Reply #11 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Confusion: album artist vs (track?) artist on single artist albums? What is point?


Lots of mine are that way ... due to the way I set up dBpoweramp, I guess. Makes sense upon auto-tagging and auto-naming, as every now and then there is a featuring in the track artist.


Quote from: 2Bdecided on
Album artist as composer - does actual artist go as (track) artist?


Yes. Trying to keep album artist as “whatever according to genre/whatever should be the primary sorting key”.

sorting your collection

Reply #12 –
I have ordinary artists in alphabet folders, but I have separated new age, traditional electronic, classical, jazz, horror (there goes some horror stories vinyl rips), game soundtracks and domaće (local) folders in which relevant artists reside, but they are not sorted in alphabet folders - they are there in folders like artist - album [year].

I do have quite a lot of compilations, Kompilacije is the name of parent folder, and underside they are sorted out by general, similar genres: like Krautrock-Progrock-Psychedelic, Reggae-Dub-Ska, Afro-Cuban and so on. I do have quite big library which is built in the last 20 years, and this is what is working for me.

And oh, if I have discography of more that 5 albums, I make artist name folder in alphabet folder and put the albums there.

The reasons why I am not using the template Alphabet\Artist\Year - Album\Tracknumber-Tracktitle.extensions is solely for easier locating the music, as I listen to it 99% of the time on-the-go, 2 hrs a day when commuting to and from work. But I think that is very good template for sorting the albums.

Classical, I use Composer - Album [year]\track-title template, I really don't care of which orchestra performed it, and who is the conductor - I am not that much fan of classical music to differentiate it like that. I listen it from time to time.

Well, this is what works for me, anyways.
Error 404; signature server not available.

sorting your collection

Reply #13 –
I have a slightly messy folder structure of /artist/album mixed with /source/artist - album, source being for example the game the soundtrack comes from. Basically it depends on whether I can find a particular music faster by artist or by it's source ^^

I'm using album artist everywhere, using track artist if they differ among tracks.

sorting your collection

Reply #14 –
I don't have a strict system really. For Jazz, Pop, Rock etc. I always sort by artist, sure. But other stuff is more random. I may sort by composer, company (if it's a game soundtrack and I don't know the composer I put the game developer's name in), artists, whatever makes most immediate sense. Usually composer though. That is as far as putting in folders is concerned. In my player using the searching tree is sufficient to gain reasonably quick access to the music I want, thus I have cut down on the columns and only show artist and album, but I seldom choose a specific album anyway unless it's game music.

I'm more obsessed with how I name my Classical etc. music when the piece is stretched over several tracks and may be divided in different parts that have their own subdivisions.
It looks like this.

sorting your collection

Reply #15 –
Uh...

I had to start resorting my collection. So I opted for following:
1. Modern music is all named %title% %artist% %album% %disc% %track% with (currently) -- between to avoid (possible) confusion with - in either title, artist or album name.
Like this:
Hair Of The Dog -- Nazareth -- Gold -- 01 -- 03.mp3
Changes -- David Bowie -- Hunky Dory -- 1 -- 01.mp3
747 (Strangers In The Night) -- Saxon -- Heavy Metal Thunder -- 1 -- 09.mp3

2. Classic music is all named %title% %composer%. Like this:
Cantata, Bwv 1047, Chorale No 10, Jesu Joy Of Man's Desiring -- Bach.m4a
Violin Concerto No 1 In G Minor, Op 26, Adagio -- Bruch.m4a

However, I tend not to rip any classic CD, so I have very small number of such songs, most from various compilations.

And then we arrive to the matter in subject.

So, let's solve compilations first. They are all in directory Various Artists. Ah, you noticed I like first letter in word capped?
Under this comes chaos... There is special folder called A Tribute To... And there comes order by %album%.
Other folders in Various Artists are (mostly) also sorted by %album%. Exception are folders where I hoard some selected, let's call them favorite songs.
So you (and me) have there:
Various Artists
  80's
  For Those About To Rawk - A Punk Tribute To AC-DC
  Gold - Andrew Lloyd Webber Hit Singles Collection
  Metal
  Simply the Best of the 60's
  The Power Of Love
  The Very Best Of MTV Unplugged
  While My Guitar Gently Weeps

This, of course, is just a limited example.

And we leave Various Artists to more ordered %artist%.
Where situation is relative simple.
Family Name, First Name \ (%year%) %album%
or
Band Name \ (%year%) %album%

Weeelll... Band Name is a bit tricky... I tend to ommit "The" in band name. If possible. So we have Rolling Stones, Beatles, Monkees, Iron Maiden and The The. Hope no band will sue me...

We have also
Bowie, David
Cooper, Alice
Emerson, Lake & Palmer
Emerson, Lake & Powell
Feliciano, Jose
KC & Sunshine Band
Presley, Elvis
Petty, Tom
Petty, Tom & Heartbreakers

Not so bright scheme, but best I could come with to satisfy my searching needs...

Comments are welcome, flaming... is forbidden anyway... 
 

sorting your collection

Reply #16 –
This is morbidly fascinating - as many solutions as posters. Which is probably as it should be. It certainly given me some ideas, and shown up some new pitfalls I hadn't thought of!

e.g. ordering the albums (and singles!) when the metadata is just the year. I'll need proper release dates, though that looks clunky in a filename. I might just number them. 1 Please Please Me, 2 With The Beatles, 3 A Hard Days Night - but what about the singles? the singles collection boxed set? Part Masters? The American albums?!  I can see how these choices become a strange reflection of your personality and preferences.


I am interested in the "family-name, first-name" issue in terms of knowing it, tagging it, and displaying it. e.g. display name should be David Bowie, sort name should be Bowie, David, file name should be... one of those! Any nice solutions? Or just give up and tag/sort by first name?

Cheers,
David.

sorting your collection

Reply #17 –
My thoughts (and rules) on artist naming,

First take note of the artist name preferred by the publishers and content owners.

If the artist name is an alias, then globally use the name as it is pronounced; no string replace anywhere.

If the artist name is the real name, then we need to make decisions about string replace for filesystem and music player (tags).

Jazz and Classical artists frequently use real names, thus I name them "family-name, first-name" in my filesystem.
In my music player, I like to use pronounced name ("first-name family-name") for grouping display in the Playlist Viewer,
and I sort some views overtly by $directory_path(%path%)\%filename_ext%
but also sort some views covertly by calling the second value in the $meta(artist) tag, using this syntax: $meta(artist,1)

Example: if the first value ("$meta(artist,0)") of the artist tag is Carlos Kleiber, then I make sure the second value ("$meta(artist,1)") is Kleiber, Carlos

and I frequently use the Library Viewer filter columns for browsing names and name variations . . .

Example: David Bowie

Publisher preference: David Bowie
Alias Name: David Bowie
Real Name: David Robert Hayward Stenton Jones / David Robert Jones

He is named David Bowie in my filesystem views.
He is named David Bowie for music player main grouping views.

I add this string in the $meta(artist) tag of the music files and split values using semicolon as delimiter:
Quote
David Bowie; Bowie, David; David Robert Hayward Stenton Jones; Jones, David Robert Hayward Stenton; David Robert Jones; Jones, David Robert; Name [Alias] = David Bowie; Name [Real] = David Robert Jones; Name [Real] = Jones, David Robert


For music player Playlist Views, I use the first value of the artist tag -- gettable by this syntax: $meta(artist,0)

For music player Library Views, All values of the artist tag are choosable as separate items in a list -- using Filter columns (CUI) or Facets (DUI), gettable by this (Artist filter column) syntax: %<artist>%



Regarding name choice(s) for organizing classical music . . .

I prefer to use the 'starring' order preferred by the publisher, i.e. DO NOT choose Composer(s) for album/folder naming at all times.
Many times, a classical album will have works by a selection of composers performed by a particular ensemble. I have a look at the names used by the publisher in the headlines of the cover and I take things from there.



Regarding management of names containing the word "THE" . . .

Usage of "THE" as a prefix is ambiguous and subjective and will never have just one correct value for title formatting display.
If you use a music player such as foobar2000, then you are not limited to one choice for text/title display.

Using The Bill Evans Trio as an example:

I can add this string to the "ARTIST NAME" tag field:
Quote
Bill Evans Trio; Bill Evans Trio, The; The Bill Evans Trio; Bill Evans; Evans, Bill; William John Evans; Evans, William John; Performer [Jazz] = Bill Evans (piano); Ensemble [Jazz] = Bill Evans Trio


and I split the string, creating multiple values, by using the semicolon as separator,

and I create a Library Viewer Filter column named "Artist" and use this syntax for display: %<artist>%

So, when searching my Media Library using the "Artist" Filter Column, All the values will display as separate items alphabetically in a flat list like this:
Quote
. . .
. . .
Bill Evans
Bill Evans Trio
Bill Evans Trio, The
Ensemble [Jazz] = Bill Evans Trio
Evans, Bill
Evans, William John
Performer [Jazz] = Bill Evans (piano)
The Bill Evans Trio
William John Evans
. . .


All possible permutations of text and titling are covered, thus the hair-splitting argument of usage of the word "THE" is just an academic exercise and nothing else.

sorting your collection

Reply #18 –
Oh, many things here. First this:

Quote from: 2Bdecided on
e.g. ordering the albums (and singles!) when the metadata is just the year. I'll need proper release dates, though that looks clunky in a filename. I might just number them. 1 Please Please Me, 2 With The Beatles, 3 A Hard Days Night - but what about the singles? the singles collection boxed set? Part Masters? The American albums?!  I can see how these choices become a strange reflection of your personality and preferences.


A standard (one of them!) for scientific citations is to cite two works of the same author in the same year by an alpha suffix, citing as Black Sabbath (1970a) and Black Sabbath (1970b).
Downside is that you need to know how many you have for a given year. (In my system, then luckily Paranoid comes after Black Sabbath in the alphabet). BTW, when I sorted my vinyl, I would sort singles from a given album to the right of the LP regardless of whether the single was released before or after.

I use «rare» symbols in filenames. There aren't many curly braces, so I use that to enclose year. Except that I append foldernames by both AccurateRip ID and a status flag, it could then look like

Judas Priest {1990} ~ Painkiller
Judas Priest {1990} ~ Painkiller [2001 remaster]
Judas Priest {1990} ~ Painkiller [CDS]
the latter for the 3" single – "CDS" and "CDM" end up after numerals while sorted, but that is of course only because it is the title track.  The remaster would have filenames like
Judas Priest {1990} ~ Painkiller [2001 remaster] ~ 08 ~ A Touch of Evil
Judas Priest {1990} ~ Painkiller [2001 remaster] ~ 11 ~ Living Bad Dreams [bonus]

Had I done it all over again, I would have used a character to separate out re-release year for everything but first-press CD. E.g., with Greek rho for reissue:
Judas Priest {1990?2001} ~ Painkiller
... and if I wanted, I could use sigma for single to get it afterwards: {1990?}.

sorting your collection

Reply #19 –
Quote from: 2Bdecided on
I am interested in the "family-name, first-name" issue in terms of knowing it, tagging it, and displaying it. e.g. display name should be David Bowie, sort name should be Bowie, David, file name should be... one of those! Any nice solutions?


The ALBUM ARTIST SORT tag.  Of course you need to know that David Bowie is Firstname Lastname, unlike Black Sabbath.  If you don't have this in your metadata, and you don't have too many artists, you can search up the ones with album artist (or artist if you don't use track artists ...) containing a space, and then mark those which are Firstname Lastname and format ALBUM ARTIST SORT from that.


Of course, if you have a trace of OCD you will be totally stuck in troubles. Band names named after one of the members, but so that they are indeed a band, should that be different from the solo albums?  Alice Cooper was originally only a band name, so count your collation policy lucky that they didn't get a record contract until Vincent Furnier had taken the Alice Cooper name as well. And what about Count Basie?

And what if Eddie Van Halen released a solo album before moving from the Netherlands – or before americanizing his last name? Would you ever have both a Halen, Eddie van and a Van Halen, Eddie in your collection?  (The capitalization of the v is your least issue, I guess ...)

Of course, first names do not resolve everything. One thing is the English-speaking world where Robert becomes Rob and Bob and whatnot, and then you have like these folks:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcie_Free and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Caputo


And then you have the Hungarian way of ordering names. And the Icelandic. And how many of you have in your tags
Harvey, Alex, The Sensational, Band
except by an unexpected artifact of using MusicBrainz?

sorting your collection

Reply #20 –
Wow. Some people go into too much depth. I treat my digital music as follows. Each directory represents a disc:

/The Cure - 2004 - Join the Dots: B-Sides & Rarities 1978-2001 (Disc 1)
/The Cure - 2004 - Join the Dots: B-Sides & Rarities 1978-2001 (Disc 2)
/The Cure - 2004 - Join the Dots: B-Sides & Rarities 1978-2001 (Disc 3)
/The Cure - 2004 - Join the Dots: B-Sides & Rarities 1978-2001 (Disc 4)

Believe it or not, the above four discs are stored under 'T', along with 'The Killers - 2012 - Battle Born' etc. I strongly believe that release title is how things should be stored. Keeps everything nice and simple. I have albums by 'The Smiths', and albums by 'Smith'. One is under 'T', one under 'S'. Easy now and easy in ten years time. Various Artists/Classical are simply 'Album Title - year (disc #)'

I've (previously) tried complicating things... but it became too complicated.

sorting your collection

Reply #21 –
The reason I'm asking simonh is because I've gone with the simple approach for everything I've ripped over the last few years for (what I thought were) obvious reasons - and it's ended up pretty confusing, especially for other people in the family (though if I'm honest, I struggle to think where something is in the list on the PC far more than I ever had to with a physical rack of CDs - so in some sense the physical organisation I had was obviously more intuitive). I just realised the other week that examples of many of the worst cases (organisation-wise) were now ripped and really didn't work properly together. So I was interested to find out how other people handled all this.

derty2: how do your ";" separated tags entered in fb2k work in other players?

Cheers,
David.

sorting your collection

Reply #22 –
       > derty2: how do your ";" separated tags entered in fb2k work in other players?

The graphical interface to my digital music collection is strongly tied down to foobar2000 . . . as far as I'm concerned it is THE standard which everything else must measure up to and interface with.
I have never bothered looking deeply into the subject, but I assume that all other Windows software alternatives do not handle multi-value tags nor do they offer a library viewing filter panel.

The *only* thing stopping me from permanently moving to Linux OS is foobar2000 and its third-party developer community. . . .
yes I know about running fb2k inside WINE, but I want to see a native Linux player which has the same total configurability and community as foobar.
I strongly believe that if there existed a player (and third-party dev community) for Linux which is like foobar, then that will be the day that Linux usage on the desktop will skyrocket in popularity.
The Linux community managed to band together on the internet front to create the Firefox project; it's saddening that such a thing will never happen on the music front!

sorting your collection

Reply #23 –
Amarok orders the files like this

%collection_root_folder%/%albumartist% - %albumtitle%/{CD %discnumber%, }%tracknumber% - %tracktitle%

For classical music, I follow the MusicBrainz recommendation, which is usually (but not always!) to use the composer as album artist and mentioning the performer in the album name.

But that's how it's laid out on my harddisk. Sorting the albums in Amarok (the music player I usually use) is a little different. I change the way of sorting every month because I tend to select other albums when sorted differently. I have three main ways of sorting, Artist -> Album, Year -> Album and just Album. Besides that, I sometimes use shuffle tracks or shuffle whole albums if I really don't know what to choose

Music: sounds arranged such that they construct feelings.

sorting your collection

Reply #24 –
Quote from: ktf on
%collection_root_folder%/%albumartist% - %albumtitle%/{CD %discnumber%, }%tracknumber% - %tracktitle%


A different issue coming up – because of the risk of accidental dragging and dropping (although I play from read-only access ... ehm ... usually) I reiterate artist and album in the filename. As the root folder is letter:\number (e.g. Y:\1) I only very rarely have to limit the length.
albumartist {year} ~ album ~ <someblahblah>\albumartist {year} ~ album ~ tracknumber ~ tracktitle
where the <someblahblah> thing is the 8-8-8 part of the AccurateRip ID, keeping different masterings apart even when they conflict on CDDB-ID, and then a code for AR status, which in virtually every case keeps pressings apart. (Later, in the age of retro-checks, I have actually deleted duplicates which are bit-identical modulo pressing.) In case of track artists I can wrap those to the very last as ?trackartist? if I want to, using different delimiters as that is an optional field.

And, in order to recognize pre-emphasis discs even in case I destroy their tagging (decoding is done on-the-fly), those are WavPack files.


(BTW, I would also have used Linux on that box had there been a fb2k for it. Even though I need Windows for my ripping application of choice, dBpoweramp.)