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Topic: Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods) (Read 11043 times) previous topic - next topic
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Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

There is a pinned post above with some information about this, but it was last updated over a year ago, so I'm not sure which parts are current and which parts are not.  Things seem to move pretty quick in this area.

I am about to start ripping some of my newer CDs to AAC using foobar2000 + Nero.  I don't have an iPod, but may do in the near-ish future, and want to make sure I maximise my chances of the resulting files being fully functional with iPods.

I think I will settle for the "default" settings that foobar chooses for Nero -- particularly a -q setting of 0.5.  It seems that many out there use a lower bitrate for their portable files, e.g. an average VBR of 128 kbps, but I'd be happier with a higher quality in case I need to use them later on a better quality audio setup.

However, from some reading around these forums and elsewhere on the net, I have some concern as to whether these will be iPod compatible "out of the box".  The issues I see are as follows:

-- a) the default encoded files have an extension of .mp4.  I understand that iPods need the extension to be .m4a.  Is that still the case?  Is it just a simple matter of renaming .mp4 to .m4a, or is there something more that is required to make them iPod compatible?  Can I just get foobar+Nero to name straight to .m4a (I couldn't see where)?

-- b) there is some talk about gapless functionality.  Is it correct that, using the default foobar+Nero settings, I will get encoded files that will play gaplessly on an iPod?  Or is some modification / tweaking / special setting required?

-- c) if I tag all the .mp4 files with foobar in the standard way at the time of ripping, will that information subsequently be readable by an iPod?


There may be some other issues, but mainly I want to ensure that the effort I put in now doesn't need to be re-done later when I discover that all my ripped files are useless or sub-optimal on an iPod.

Many thanks,

Mike

(Edit because my final bullet turned into the copyright symbol.)

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #1 –
1) dont use the built in settings. Use custom encoder and u can specify what file extension to use. I use this setting in the field that says paramaters [-ignorelength -q 0.4 -if %s -of %d] I use .4 cuz to me that gives me an avg of 128kbps.
2) Im not sure. I havent had a lot of exp w/gapless files so i dont have an answer for you on this one.
3) yes.
 

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #2 –
As far as gapless goes, iTunes will have to read your Nero AAC files and analyze them for gapless playback.  They will then playback gaplessly in both iTunes and on the iPod.  There were some initial issues with Nero AAC, iTunes was doing a 1/2 assed job of gapless playback.  The issue seems to have been solved with iTunes 7.0.1.

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #3 –
Thanks for the feedback so far.  So it seems that I'm pretty safe to produce the AACs and also tag them using foobar+nero, and then run them through iTunes later. 

Few more questions:

1) Is it always necessary to run nero AACs through iTunes to get iPod-compatible files, or is this only required for gapless playback?

2) Regarding not using the default foobar+nero settings, edekba, what do your settings do that the default settings don't (apart from encode at a lower bitrate)?  What does -ignorelength do?  I've looked at the nero aac encoder "tutorial" but it doesn't say anything about this.

3) Is it really necessary to use the extension .m4a instead of .mp4?  Is that all that is required -- and can this be done by iTunes if (1) says that you have to run them through iTunes anyway?  Is it recommended just to use .m4a from the start?  Just trying to save myself needless work later.

Thanks,

Mike

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #4 –
@drmrbrewer

foobar's Converter settings (File > Preferences), you can specify in for your output files to be given the m4a extension instead of mp4.

Here's where it gets confusing: Under Encoding Presets select "Add New", then in the dialog box select "MP4 (Nero)".  Then SELECTING AGAIN, choose Custom.  Now you'll see all the current parameters for the "MP4 (Nero)" preset, including the command line parameters that edekba mentioned.  Here's where you can change the extension to M4A; you can also save the settings as a new preset if you want under the "Display Info" groupbox at the bottom.   

(If any foobar devs are reading this, might I suggest that the creation/management of converter presets be made a little more intuitive?  While I've figured out the above process on my own, I did find it very confusing at first.)

Quote from: drmrbrewer on
1) Is it always necessary to run nero AACs through iTunes to get iPod-compatible files, or is this only required for gapless playback?

They only need to be imported to iTunes to add the gapless metadata, not for compatability. However they need to be imported to itunes for transfer to your iPod anyway (unless you plan on using some other 3rd party software to do this).

Quote from: drmrbrewer on
2) Regarding not using the default foobar+nero settings, edekba, what do your settings do that the default settings don't (apart from encode at a lower bitrate)?  What does -ignorelength do?  I've looked at the nero aac encoder "tutorial" but it doesn't say anything about this.

Don't worry about this, it's already in the default foobar command line for Nero.  The only thing you might need to tweak in the command line is the -q value based on your personal prefernce.

Quote from: drmrbrewer on
3) Is it really necessary to use the extension .m4a instead of .mp4?  Is that all that is required -- and can this be done by iTunes if (1) says that you have to run them through iTunes anyway?  Is it recommended just to use .m4a from the start?  Just trying to save myself needless work later.

just use m4a from the start.  I tried importing some AAC files to iTunes 7 with the .mp4 extension and it recognized them as video files, not audio (can't remember if it would play them or not).

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #5 –
Thanks, remedial sound.  Trying my best to avoid a significant d'oh moment later when I discover that I've just ripped 100 CDs to AAC the "wrong way".  Will give this a go later.

As for the q value -- still a little undecided -- although I'm definitely favouring the default of 0.5.  If nothing else, this gives file sizes roughly equivalent to the standard setting with musepack, the only other benchmark with which I'm familiar.  Basically, I want to avoid having to do all the donkey work again in a few years time when I discover that a lower quality gives discernible artifacts if/when I start playing the AACs on a decent hifi setup.  And storage is becoming cheaper and more plentiful with each day, so I think I favour erring slightly on the side of caution.

Cheers,

Mike

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #6 –
You'll want to add -lc to the options too, since iPods don't support HE encoding. Note that when you go LC the q-values are all different with respect to quality and bitrate. IIRC, q0.1 becomes 128kbps or so.

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Axon on
You'll want to add -lc to the options too, since iPods don't support HE encoding. Note that when you go LC the q-values are all different with respect to quality and bitrate. IIRC, q0.1 becomes 128kbps or so.

I trust you're correct here, however I think this suggestion unnecessarily complicates things.  At the quality/bitrate range he's considering (-q 0.5) there's no chance of HE-AAC kicking in.  Only when you get much lower does Nero automatically switch to HE-AAC, I think it's somewhere around 85 kbps - see this post.

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Remedial Sound on
At the quality/bitrate range he's considering (-q 0.5) there's no chance of HE-AAC kicking in.


Axon makes a good point, but what you say above is pretty much what I'd understood from other posts, although my understanding of the various encodings is very limited indeed.  Also, I thought I read somewhere that (at least the latest) iPods can play the non-LC encodings (is it HE, or perhaps I'm confusing it with AAC+ or something?), but it'll just ignore anything that it can't understand (i.e. you don't get any benefits from the newer parts of the encoding).  Maybe someone can step in here if that is inaccurate or misleading.

Mike

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #9 –
iPods can play HE-AAC files, they can only play the LC portions though which defeats the purpose.  iPods have been able to do this since Apple released the 3rd generation iPod (and 1st generation mini a couple months later) with LC-AAC support.

Additionally, as with my understanding of Nero's AAC encoder, HE-AAC won't start until approximately the 85kbps bitrate and below so it doesn't really matter.  Forcing the LC option will change the scale but it is just best to leave that out since it won't come into play anyways.

Edit:  I don't know if the point got across or not but both the iPod and iTunes NEED LC-AAC audio files to be in the *.m4a format.  If not, they will both just recognize the *.mp4 LC-AAC files as mpeg-4 movies.  I guess I don't see what the big deal is.  Apple made some new extensions so their iPod users would not get confused.  *.m4a for audio, *.m4p for protected audio, *.m4v for mpeg-4 videos, and *.m4b for audio books.

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #10 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
As far as gapless goes, iTunes will have to read your Nero AAC files and analyze them for gapless playback.  They will then playback gaplessly in both iTunes and on the iPod.  There were some initial issues with Nero AAC, iTunes was doing a 1/2 assed job of gapless playback.  The issue seems to have been solved with iTunes 7.0.1.

This is completely untrue. I'm running iTunes v7.0.2.16 and I just encoded Marilyn Manson's "Holy Wood" to test this claim. There are quite audible split second gaps between the tracks. Unless there's an extra step that I'm missing.

I ripped the CD with EAC, encoded with fb2k v0.9.4.1/Nero AAC v1.0.0.2 (downloaded today). I used the default settings, the only change made was the extension being switched to m4a.

EDIT: Grammar

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #11 –
You have to explicitly enable gapless mode for each album, I believe.

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Firon on
You have to explicitly enable gapless mode for each album, I believe.

No, gapless is used by default.

The option to mark specific tracks as 'Part of a gapless album' is just to bypass crossfade. Some people use crossfade for their whole collection. Crossfade will distort gapless playback so this setting is there to make sure crossfade is disabled when playing those tracks while still on for the rest of the tracks.
Every night with my star friends / We eat caviar and drink champagne
Sniffing in the VIP area / We talk about Frank Sinatra
Do you know Frank Sinatra? / He's dead

Nero AAC settings for maximum compatibility (e.g. with iPods)

Reply #13 –
Oh, I see.