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Topic: Understanding Ogg (Read 5470 times) previous topic - next topic
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Understanding Ogg

Hello all,

After reading a lot on these forums I'm really considering to move over to the ogg front.  But... my main problem is that I don't really understand how ogg works.  With that I don't mean how ogg encodes stuff but I mean how compatible is it etc.?
I understand that it is totally patent free so you codegurus can do whatever you want to improve the quality.
- But will all the files that I encode now with ogg be compatible in the future??

- Are there any official versions at this moment??

- What's the versionhistory of ogg, because it's a bit confusing to me with all those RC's??

- Can you tag ogg files with something comparable to ID3V2 info??

- Will these tags be compatible with future hardware players (because of the patent free thing you see)??

As you see I have a lot of questions and I hope you guys can answer them.  I think when some of these questions get cleared out a bit and the overall quality of ogg reaches the masses we have a new winner  in audio encoding.

Greetz,
Captain_Carnage
-->xmixahlx<-- learn the truth about audio-compression

Understanding Ogg

Reply #1 –
- But will all the files that I encode now with ogg be compatible in the future??

Yes

- Are there any official versions at this moment??

Yes. RC3 is the latest official version.

- What's the versionhistory of ogg, because it's a bit confusing to me with all those RC's??

beta1, beta2, beta3, beta4, RC1, RC2, RC3

- Can you tag ogg files with something comparable to ID3V2 info??

Oggs have their own tagging system, which avoids the problems of ID3V2, and is more flexible than ID3V1

- Will these tags be compatible with future hardware players (because of the patent free thing you see)??

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but the tags are already defined and part of Ogg.

--
GCP

Understanding Ogg

Reply #2 –
And Ogg's tagging system is SWEET!

Understanding Ogg

Reply #3 –
Can you guys give me an example on how to encode high quality files with ogg.  I just downloaded oggdrop RC3, but are there other alternatives or something.

I just want to make sure I don't make the same misstakes like a couple a years ago when I was encoding at 128kbps thinking it was cdquality.

Should I use a commandline with ogg or just use oggdrop? Which commandline or wich setting should I use? (my goal is to achieve archival quality = transparancy)

Thanks a lot you guys
-->xmixahlx<-- learn the truth about audio-compression

Understanding Ogg

Reply #4 –
Try this... Just use oggdrop and move the Save Quality setting to the far right.

Understanding Ogg

Reply #5 –
Quote
Can you guys give me an example on how to encode high quality files with ogg.


-q 5 or -q 6 should be OK.

Understanding Ogg

Reply #6 –
Is it possible to encode Ogg directly from EAC (like with LAME) instead of using OggDrop?

Understanding Ogg

Reply #7 –
Yes, you can use OGG RC3 with EAC. Just click the "Use external program for compression" option, point it to oggenc.exe, ignore the bitrate setting, and type in the desired quality (for example -q7) in the box where it says "Additional command line options:" and you're good to go!

Understanding Ogg

Reply #8 –
Quote
Originally posted by layer3maniac
Yes, you can use OGG RC3 with EAC. Just click the "Use external program for compression" option, point it to oggenc.exe, ignore the bitrate setting, and type in the desired quality (for example -q7) in the box where it says "Additional command line options:" and you're good to go!


Not being entirely familiar with Ogg (I played around with it at beta2 or so and haven't touched it since) I'm not up-to-date on all the switches; is there any reason to touch any switches other than the -q ones or is just "-q7" all that needs to be done?

Understanding Ogg

Reply #9 –
nope, the quality switches are all that you need.  They put the "true" vbr mode in action; better overall quality for a given file size than cbr or abr.  So stay away from the specific bitrate settings.  Each quality setting has a nominal bitrate.  For example:
-q 2 --> 96 kbps
-q3 --> 112 kbps
-q4 --> 128 kbps
-q5 --> 160 kbps
-q7 --> 192 kbps
You can put decimals into place, to two places.  -q 4.99 will work, but -q 4.999 will be interpreted by oggenc as -q5.0  One thing you should know is that the current version of ogg, rc3, switches to lossless stereo at -q 5.0, so there's a big jump in bitrate between 4.99 and 5.0.  So if 5 is good enough for you, 4.99 will probably be good enough at a significantly smaller file size.
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

Understanding Ogg

Reply #10 –
Wow! Cool sig photo Tim!  Is that you?

Understanding Ogg

Reply #11 –
Eac is nice but if you are gonna do some massive ogging get CDeX. The moddified RC3 dll spoken of on the forums here works wonders. And CDeX uses CDDB to auto tag everything. Even your OGGs. Schwing!

Understanding Ogg

Reply #12 –
Quote
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Eac is nice but if you are gonna do some massive ogging get CDeX. The moddified RC3 dll spoken of on the forums here works wonders. And CDeX uses CDDB to auto tag everything. Even your OGGs. Schwing!


Hrm, I'll have to check it out.  I'm not sure if it's the same tool, but I used something called "CDex" back in like 1997 or perhaps early 98, and it was pretty bare-bones functionality, and its jitter correction really hated my drive and refused to rip at over 0.05x or so, so I dumped it in favor of cdrwin (yes, the software most people only use to burn cds - it was inexplicably the only tool that could reliably jitter-correct my horrible FX240 drive).  I assume it's much different by now (and I have a better drive too), so I'll take another look. =]

Understanding Ogg

Reply #13 –
Yep I have used it since then and it has come a long way. And the new optimised Vorbis DLLs are absolutely screaming on my Anthlon. It takes 10~11 min to Ogg my average CD!

Understanding Ogg

Reply #14 –
Neo Neko, how fast is your processer?  Cdex isn't the fastest ripper out there, and ogg is probably the slowest encoder that I've used (other than psytel aac) on my computer.  You'd be getting encoding rates around 5x if you go in 10 to 11 minutes for an average cd!
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

Understanding Ogg

Reply #15 –
Quote
Neo Neko, how fast is your processer?

Given that he rips about 3 times faster than my machine, I'd guess around a 1.5GHz machine (slightly less if it's an Athlon).

Understanding Ogg

Reply #16 –
Brand spanking new AMD Anthlon XP 1600+. $360 US for CPU, MOBO, case, fans, and a 300 watt power supply. Using my old HD, DVD, CD-R/RW, soundcard, video card, keyboard, mouse, and monitor though. 

Not a bad deal at all. I upgrade about 1 piece of hardware every year or so. last year I got a new soundcard. Year before a top o the line video card. Year before a new hard disk. Makes upgrading easy. I doubt I will ever buy a package system. All their spiffy software they bundle most times are crap anyway. I am in the butter zone for at least a year. Maybey two.

Understanding Ogg

Reply #17 –
Oh actual CPU speed is righ on with John's estimation. It shows 1.399Ghz.