IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Sound card for recording SPDIF optical ?
Xrcr9709
post Jan 20 2013, 13:51
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 64
Joined: 16-June 09
Member No.: 70735



Hello,

Since it seems to me that SPDIF (optical) = numeric. I guess that any PC sound card with optical in will do exactly the same job ? Even the cheapest ones ? Or can some cards perfoms differently ? (Regarding quality etc.)


Thank you for information
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
AndyH-ha
post Jan 20 2013, 22:31
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 2192
Joined: 31-August 05
Member No.: 24222



The intention of S/PDIF is to do a digital transfer. That means audio samples come in one side and out the other. The output should exactly equal the input. However, with motherboard audio there are sometimes difficulties in preventing resampling to 48kHz. Thus, if the input is not 48kHz, it will go through a resampling to 48kHz, then another resampling to whatever you've set up the recording program to do. This means what you record is not an exact copy of the source.

Sometimes the resampling is not so great and the result will not sound quite the same as the source. All this is moot if you can prevent the resampling by the proper Windows settings.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
phofman
post Jan 20 2013, 23:17
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 268
Joined: 14-February 12
Member No.: 97162



Yes but you have to make sure the card uses recovered clock from the incoming SPDIF stream as its master clock. It is no problem for the cards which specifically offer "external clock" switch. However, a simple USB card with SPDIF input like http://www.ebay.com/itm/External-USB-2-0-7...=item2320e5a362 which does not offer any external clock switch, only the input selector switch (the first control called "PCM Capture Source"):

CODE

pavel@eeepc:~$ amixer -c 1 contents
numid=14,iface=MIXER,name='PCM Capture Source'
; type=ENUMERATED,access=rw------,values=1,items=4
; Item #0 'Mic'
; Item #1 'Line'
; Item #2 'IEC958 In'
; Item #3 'Mixer'
: values=0
numid=12,iface=MIXER,name='PCM Capture Switch'
; type=BOOLEAN,access=rw------,values=1
: values=on
numid=13,iface=MIXER,name='PCM Capture Volume'
; type=INTEGER,access=rw---R--,values=2,min=0,max=6928,step=0
: values=5543,5543
| unk-4-0x00000000,0x00000452,
numid=3,iface=MIXER,name='Line Playback Switch'
; type=BOOLEAN,access=rw------,values=1
: values=off
numid=4,iface=MIXER,name='Line Playback Volume'
; type=INTEGER,access=rw---R--,values=2,min=0,max=8065,step=0
: values=6144,6144
| unk-4-0x00000000,0x000002ee,
numid=9,iface=MIXER,name='Line Capture Switch'
; type=BOOLEAN,access=rw------,values=1
: values=off
numid=10,iface=MIXER,name='Line Capture Volume'
; type=INTEGER,access=rw---R--,values=2,min=0,max=6928,step=0
: values=0,0
| unk-4-0x00000000,0x00000452,
numid=1,iface=MIXER,name='Mic Playback Switch'
; type=BOOLEAN,access=rw------,values=1
: values=off
numid=2,iface=MIXER,name='Mic Playback Volume'
; type=INTEGER,access=rw---R--,values=2,min=0,max=8065,step=0
: values=0,0
| unk-4-0x00000000,0x000002ee,
numid=7,iface=MIXER,name='Mic Capture Switch'
; type=BOOLEAN,access=rw------,values=1
: values=off
numid=8,iface=MIXER,name='Mic Capture Volume'
; type=INTEGER,access=rw---R--,values=2,min=0,max=6928,step=0
: values=0,0
| unk-4-0x00000000,0x00000452,
numid=11,iface=MIXER,name='IEC958 In Capture Switch'
; type=BOOLEAN,access=rw------,values=1
: values=on
numid=5,iface=MIXER,name='Speaker Playback Switch'
; type=BOOLEAN,access=rw------,values=1
: values=on
numid=6,iface=MIXER,name='Speaker Playback Volume'
; type=INTEGER,access=rw---R--,values=8,min=0,max=197,step=0
: values=158,158,158,158,158,158,158,158
| unk-4-0x00000000,0x00000000,


Will the CM106 chip http://www.steila.com/USB4IO/CMedia/CM106-...tasheet-1.3.pdf inside the soundcard switch its clock from its internal oscillator to the clock recovered by its internal SPDIF receiver when it is directed to switch input to the "IEC958 In" source? I don't know smile.gif

Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Arnold B. Kruege...
post Jan 21 2013, 13:48
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 3537
Joined: 29-October 08
From: USA, 48236
Member No.: 61311



QUOTE (phofman @ Jan 20 2013, 17:17) *
Yes but you have to make sure the card uses recovered clock from the incoming SPDIF stream as its master clock. It is no problem for the cards which specifically offer "external clock" switch. However, a simple USB card with SPDIF input like http://www.ebay.com/itm/External-USB-2-0-7...=item2320e5a362 which does not offer any external clock switch, only the input selector switch (the first control called "PCM Capture Source"):


The above seems to makes no sense. When receiving SP/DIF there is and can be no source of clocking information other than the input data stream. The clock that is used to decode the input data stream must be sample-aligned with the input data and therefore synchronized with it.

External clocking does not usually affect the reception of input SP/DIF data streams. External clocking geneally affects only the output data stream which may be clocked by an internal or external clock. Often there is an option for the output clock to be synchronized with the input data stream.

Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
phofman
post Jan 21 2013, 14:46
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 268
Joined: 14-February 12
Member No.: 97162



QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jan 21 2013, 14:48) *
The above seems to makes no sense. When receiving SP/DIF there is and can be no source of clocking information other than the input data stream. The clock that is used to decode the input data stream must be sample-aligned with the input data and therefore synchronized with it.


Right. Yet there are cards which can be switched to internal clock, while capturing data from the SPDIF receiver. Such as most Envy24-based ones. Of course it is not a correct mode of operation since as you say the incoming I2S data from the SPDIF receiver are not aligned with the internal clock and data corruption occurs. Actually they can be, provided the SPDIF output provides master clock for the whole chain (sort of SPDIF loopback).

QUOTE
External clocking does not usually affect the reception of input SP/DIF data streams. External clocking geneally affects only the output data stream which may be clocked by an internal or external clock. Often there is an option for the output clock to be synchronized with the input data stream.


That would require the output part to use a different clock from the input part. I know that is not the case for Envy24, perhaps USB-based controllers are separated in that way. To find out is a nice project for a few evenings, maybe one day when I have nothing else to do... :-)
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Xrcr9709
post Jan 22 2013, 22:48
Post #6





Group: Members
Posts: 64
Joined: 16-June 09
Member No.: 70735



Thank you. But I must confess that I'm lost ...
Do you have so sound card name that I could consider or avoir ?

Also, if I get such a card, can I record with my usual softwares ? (I use Audacity and Sound Forge Pro.)

This post has been edited by Xrcr9709: Jan 22 2013, 22:49
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TuNk77
post Jan 23 2013, 10:19
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 127
Joined: 1-December 06
From: Norway
Member No.: 38241



QUOTE (Xrcr9709 @ Jan 22 2013, 22:48) *
Thank you. But I must confess that I'm lost ...
Do you have so sound card name that I could consider or avoir ?

Also, if I get such a card, can I record with my usual softwares ? (I use Audacity and Sound Forge Pro.)


I know that Soundblaster Z does have SPDIF in and out. I have the card myself, but I have not tested to record from SPDIF in. I will test it later dough, since I have some minidiscs that I must transfer to wav.
I'll reply her later, if it works or not tongue.gif
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TuNk77
post Jan 24 2013, 20:11
Post #8





Group: Members
Posts: 127
Joined: 1-December 06
From: Norway
Member No.: 38241



I just tested to record from TOSLINK out on my minidisc to TOSLINK in on my soundcard (soundblaster z), and it works perfectly in audacity.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
phofman
post Jan 25 2013, 09:32
Post #9





Group: Members
Posts: 268
Joined: 14-February 12
Member No.: 97162



I would be careful with integrated Intel HDA soundcards

http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipermail/...ary/058928.html

Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Arnold B. Kruege...
post Jan 25 2013, 13:22
Post #10





Group: Members
Posts: 3537
Joined: 29-October 08
From: USA, 48236
Member No.: 61311



QUOTE (phofman @ Jan 25 2013, 03:32) *
I would be careful with integrated Intel HDA soundcards

http://mailman.alsa-project.org/pipermail/...ary/058928.html


It is not uncommon for consumer audio interfaces to resample digital inputs as a means for finessing the problem of synchronizing the core of the audio interface with its inputs. Not an audible problem for 2-channel audio streams if the resampling is done well, but it can be pretty fatal if the input stream is multichannel (e.g. Dolby Digital) or otherwise coded in a manner that the interface can't handle properly.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
phofman
post Jan 25 2013, 15:07
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 268
Joined: 14-February 12
Member No.: 97162



QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jan 25 2013, 14:22) *
It is not uncommon for consumer audio interfaces to resample digital inputs as a means for finessing the problem of synchronizing the core of the audio interface with its inputs. Not an audible problem for 2-channel audio streams if the resampling is done well, but it can be pretty fatal if the input stream is multichannel (e.g. Dolby Digital) or otherwise coded in a manner that the interface can't handle properly.


I understand it is common for AVRs etc... but I did not know about Intel HDA implementations being so broken (the resampling WM codec is basically an exception).
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
jkauff
post Jan 25 2013, 15:18
Post #12





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 157
Joined: 1-October 01
From: Doylestown, PA
Member No.: 145



QUOTE (Xrcr9709 @ Jan 22 2013, 16:48) *
Thank you. But I must confess that I'm lost ...
Do you have so sound card name that I could consider or avoir ?

Also, if I get such a card, can I record with my usual softwares ? (I use Audacity and Sound Forge Pro.)

Do you have a PCI slot in your machine? I have the M-Audio Delta Audiophile 192, which will do what you want and works with all your current software. Sound quality is excellent. It supports ASIO as well.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Xrcr9709
post Jan 25 2013, 16:30
Post #13





Group: Members
Posts: 64
Joined: 16-June 09
Member No.: 70735



QUOTE (jkauff @ Jan 25 2013, 15:18) *
Do you have a PCI slot in your machine?


I think so:


Does the card also fit in a PCI-Epress slot ?
Sometimes I get a bit confused between PCI/E and compatibilities.

This post has been edited by Xrcr9709: Jan 25 2013, 16:31
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
[JAZ]
post Jan 25 2013, 19:45
Post #14





Group: Members
Posts: 1711
Joined: 24-June 02
From: Catalunya(Spain)
Member No.: 2383



The PCI ones are the light blue ones.
The PCI/E 16x are the white and dark blue ones.
(There's one small PCI/E 1x too)

(you can see the names on the left side and/or the top side of the slot)
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
jkauff
post Jan 26 2013, 18:05
Post #15





Group: Members (Donating)
Posts: 157
Joined: 1-October 01
From: Doylestown, PA
Member No.: 145



QUOTE (Xrcr9709 @ Jan 25 2013, 10:30) *
Does the card also fit in a PCI-Epress slot ?
Sometimes I get a bit confused between PCI/E and compatibilities.

M-Audio has no cards that work in a PCI-Express slot. They seem to be concentrating their efforts these days on external USB boxes, which of course is another route you could take.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
bryant
post Jan 26 2013, 20:27
Post #16


WavPack Developer


Group: Developer (Donating)
Posts: 1287
Joined: 3-January 02
From: San Francisco CA
Member No.: 900



The route I have been taking lately is to use something completely external to the PC: an iRiver iHP-120 (sometimes called the H120) with Rockbox installed (the H140 will work also).

It's got optical S/PDIF in and out and comes with a 20 GB HD (although I've upped mine to 80 GB). It can record directly to WavPack lossless (or WAV) and then you just copy the files onto your PC over USB. It only works up to 48 Khz and 16-bit, but that's fine for most things I use it for (mainly recording from DCC and an FM tuner with S/PDIF output). You have to buy a used one on eBay obviously because they haven't been made in years, but you don't have to worry about any of the resampling / driver / slot issues with a PC card and it's much more portable. Fortunately, both the HD and battery are easy to replace, so it should last forever.

http://www.amazon.com/iriver-H120-20GB-MP3...x/dp/B0000EI9VR

This post has been edited by bryant: Jan 26 2013, 20:28
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Xrcr9709
post Jan 27 2013, 11:23
Post #17





Group: Members
Posts: 64
Joined: 16-June 09
Member No.: 70735



Interesting, but I already have an "Asus Xoner Essence STX/PCI-E" and I'm satisfied with it. The only thing is that it has no optical in.
(When I order it I thought it would come with a lot more connections because I had seen images of the Asus Xonar Essence ST which has a secondary card, and this led me to confusion)

I don't plan to buy a new card for the long term, I just would like to find a cheap temporary solution to digitize my MiniDiscs in an optimal way once and for all. But I won't need the optical in after this.
That why I was asking first "Since it's numeric, will any card do exactely the same job ?"

There are used "M-Audio Delta Audiophile 192" for around 50$ and that's one of the cards I could I have bought when I bought the Asus, so I'm not decided yet but it's an option.

This post has been edited by Xrcr9709: Jan 27 2013, 11:26
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th April 2014 - 19:27