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Jplay - just another scam? YES IT IS!
includemeout
post Jan 1 2014, 09:53
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QUOTE (bennetng @ Jan 1 2014, 03:53) *
Making fraudulent "audiophile" software is a silly idea to begin with. All malicious merchants should learn a lesson from JPlay.


Unless they don't mind being tops on google as comedy relief to serious users. laugh.gif


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Antifremer
post Jan 1 2014, 16:29
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I analyzed this thread http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.p...An-Open-Letter/ about jplay on Whats Best Forum where Josef Piri and his partner John Keny are both shilling.

I realized that HA hasn't breached the haul of their scam ship, this IS their vessel.

You think they are defending themselves on objectivists forums, but they are not. They are seeding reasonable doubt, harnessing google chatter, and most importantly they are selling.

Each time someone says "Where are your measurements?", "Where are your DBT/ABX studies?", "Where is your evidence?", each time they respond with "Just listen to it!", "That many people buying it can't be wrong!", "I am just a programer working in my garage, I can't afford Science."

Guess what's the effect of this. Yes I went and downloaded the horrid JPlay, I had to listen for myself. Of course I heard no audible difference, and my computer suffered and began to freeze. Doesn't matter, they sucked me into it.

I didn't buy it but 1 out of 10 or 20 people who are borderline deciding should they, they have. They came to these forums to look for a little push to go ahead and buy and these shills did their jobs quite remarkably. Even if technically nothing made sense to the potential buyer, the fact these cunty impolite people are attacking the poor garage inventor defending his little life achieving invention, awwww. They went and bought the "invention". Can you blame these morons? No. Everyone likes an underdog and a good shill knows it and uses it.

Those that are clear cut imbeciles don't come on HA and read pros and cons, no, they bought it the same day 6moons published the review. HA and WBF and AudioSource and similar debating this JPlay scam are being used as a opportunity to shill the undecided ones already holding their visa's and mastercard's in their hands. Screw the cards, they have their CC's in browser autofill forms ready.

Notice how each time any of the shills, either Josef or others are dragged into the ring of technical knowledge and lingo, they say "for the readership sake" they have to pull out and use easy going analogies. Just watering the imbeciles sponge brains. As in Jazz music artists like to say, Josef is masterful with his instrument - the position as a shill and snake oil salesman. Obviously the product is horrendous crap. To call that copy paste mini player a media player, is just insane! But they will come out with some kind of a player eventually, they are not even close to loosing this battle. They are too experienced at this and I'm sure they have done it many many times before.

If you want to see how a real garage inventor genius looks and acts like, you need to observe Jim Hillegass, the maker of JRiver. Grumpy, cunty, uncommunicative, zero customer service skills, product improvement obsessed. He growls at you like a kodiak mama bear protecting his cub from criticism.

Josef Piri isn't inventing anything. The time he invested in shilling on forums he could have made 10 Scientific studies, but I doubt he can even understand one, let alone write one. Soo much resemblance with Rick Schultz from Virtual Dynamics...

JosefPlay - JimRiver. Get it? A total ripoff.

They want idiot money, they want them real bad and they are grabbing them. The JPlay forum has 20,000 + members! Its technically a cult.

20,000 x 130$ = $2,600,000

Consider some have bought the scam and never registered on the forum. They have no more than 1000$ invested in the website with hosting included. Thats it. They went 2,600 times their investment.

And now audiophile USB cables. Awww. Lessloss watchout!

Here is another fun read about audiophile scams: My cat tore up my Virtual Dynamics Power 3

P.S.

I am really happy JRiver and Foobar are blocking this scam and taking a stand. The egg throwing crowds are tough but you are the only hope for them to wake up to the reality that they have been scammed. Cut the tumor off your back and never affiliate with them ever.

This post has been edited by Antifremer: Jan 1 2014, 16:43
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Porcus
post Jan 1 2014, 22:35
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QUOTE (mudlord @ Jan 1 2014, 04:08) *


*cough*

QUOTE (josef @ Jan 22 2012, 22:35) *
But if you dare call me a cheat please put forward some evidence of your own or retract the claim…


http://jplay.eu/jcat/

*cough*


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Wombat
post Jan 2 2014, 01:22
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Jan 1 2014, 23:35) *

Wow! Silver and Teflon together!
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Porcus
post Jan 2 2014, 07:41
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QUOTE (Wombat @ Jan 2 2014, 01:22) *
Wow! Silver and Teflon together!


I just can't wait for JEther, the audiophile air additive that improves audio transmitted over wireless connections by reducing the feedback from longitudinal waves of pressure - Josef has detected such waves in various listening rooms, and found that they correlate with the bitstream which your DAC actually receives.


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bennetng
post Jan 2 2014, 10:32
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QUOTE (Antifremer @ Jan 1 2014, 23:29) *
They want idiot money, they want them real bad and they are grabbing them. The JPlay forum has 20,000 + members! Its technically a cult.

20,000 x 130$ = $2,600,000

Consider some have bought the scam and never registered on the forum. They have no more than 1000$ invested in the website with hosting included. Thats it. They went 2,600 times their investment.


Just like there are paid facebook likes, paid youtube comments, human-based CAPTCHA solver, fake reviewers etc, there are fake forum members as well.
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phofman
post Jan 2 2014, 10:49
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QUOTE (bennetng @ Jan 2 2014, 11:32) *
Just like there are paid facebook likes, paid youtube comments, human-based CAPTCHA solver, fake reviewers etc, there are fake forum members as well.


I am pretty much convinced of that too. I noticed some users registered on computeraudiophile in several waves of similar dates in 2012, praising jplay uncritically.
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Antifremer
post Jan 2 2014, 15:00
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QUOTE
Just like there are paid facebook likes, paid youtube comments, human-based CAPTCHA solver, fake reviewers etc, there are fake forum members as well.


I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case. But I think we shouldn't underestimate human gullibility as well. I met two audiophiles on a local forum (in a country with 400$ average monthly salary) that bought jplay and one defends it with anger and the other guy is in passive aggressive denial.

JPlay passionate owners remind me of Naim/Linn owners, cult members and young earth creationists.
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includemeout
post Jan 2 2014, 15:52
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It has probably been already linked to, but as I don't recall seeing it on this rather long thread in particular:

By the way even their admin comes over here just to hit and run; and almost have poetry written in his honour by his back-side kissers when he returns back home crying.gif , I wouldn't be surprised they have actually decided to embark on a placebologic crusade of sorts against us heathen ones who dare doubt their deities, by dispatching the occasional sentry/sharp shooters to treat us a to a lil' bit of their shoddy wisdom.


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dhromed
post Jan 2 2014, 16:20
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QUOTE (includemeout @ Jan 2 2014, 15:52) *
By the way even their admin comes over here just to hit and run; and almost have poetry written in his honour by his back-side kissers when he returns back home crying.gif , I wouldn't be surprised they have actually decided to embark on a placebologic crusade of sorts against us heathen ones who dare doubt their deities, by dispatching the occasional sentry/sharp shooters to treat us a to a lil' bit of their shoddy wisdom.


Such drama!

Are we still talking about jplay or about "them vs us"? I personally think neither is terribly interesting.
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includemeout
post Jan 2 2014, 16:32
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I hadn't realised then, but you're right: we have diverted off-topic. My bad also.

But your post's made me wonder if there really is that much than can be said about Jplay anymore.


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Porcus
post Jan 2 2014, 20:13
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QUOTE (includemeout @ Jan 2 2014, 16:32) *
made me wonder if there really is that much than can be said about Jplay anymore.


http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....howtopic=104026 gives a reason to say it again once in a while wink.gif


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greynol
post Jan 3 2014, 20:55
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I would like to think Jplay's entry into the cable business has caused at least some to become skeptical of their not-as-obvious software scam.


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Gecko
post Jan 4 2014, 00:35
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It's interesting that the cables page is almost devoid of any claims regarding audio quality. I'm expecting raving testimonials sooner or later but they themselves are basically just saying:
a) you can use these cables to build your rig
b) SATA cables are as important as USB cables for audio reproduction
c) this is what they are made of...

You can object to the price but I find it hard to disagree with those very basic claims.
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godrick
post Jan 4 2014, 00:56
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The difference between "almost devoid" and "devoid" is significant. That they use an argument based on ambiguity that is neither innovative nor valid should not be overlooked. Also no need to ignore such disingenuous comments like "We strongly believe that using our line of carefully selected products will help you create the ultimate PC audio transport and get the most out of JPLAY", or "Our extensive tests showed that using audio grade SATA cable is as important for sound quality in a computer audio system as using high quality USB cable with a USB DAC or USB-S/PDIF converter". If scrutiny of any scam can be so easily stopped by the facile use of "we believe" or "in our opinion", then so be it, but let's put that to the test before giving up.

Also no need to ignore that the ambiguous claims don't support prices 100x conventional cables. Also no need to ignore the many forum entries in several forums beyond the single cable page. All of the above are candidates for disagreement, or better yet, demanding proof of claims.
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Gecko
post Jan 4 2014, 01:53
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You can find this type of vague argument in many product commercials and every company "recommends" its own accessories to "get the most out of" their product. Usually these accessories will cost a little more than something generic which would work just as well. Would you also call that a scam? Do you demand proof?

There seems to be a certain audiophile clientele which behaves much like people following a religious cult. They are so easily suckered into parting with their money that you don't even have to market superior audio quality. In this case there are no official claims which could be debunked. The dubious claims are provided by the customers. This is a very convenient situation for those exploiting this clientele. They are much harder to unmask than those who do their own bullshit marketing. That's where I see the real problem.
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Porcus
post Jan 4 2014, 02:21
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QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 4 2014, 00:56) *
"We strongly believe that using our line of carefully selected products will help you create the ultimate PC audio transport and get the most out of JPLAY", or "Our extensive tests showed that using audio grade SATA cable is as important for sound quality in a computer audio system as using high quality USB cable with a USB DAC or USB-S/PDIF converter". If scrutiny of any scam can be so easily stopped by the facile use of "we believe" or "in our opinion", then so be it, but let's put that to the test before giving up.


Problem about those two statements is that one has no need for reservations like 'believe' or 'opinion'. If JPlay delivers a bit-perfect output (by doing nothing to a JRiver setup except wrapping it in some commands), then, well, in terms of bits it is 'ultimate' -- and at HA you would have to back up the contrary claim by evidence. As long as the marketing does not claim improvement but rather perfection in an area where perfection is easy (and using their 'carefully selected products' will help you get that, of course); or that audio grade SATA cables are equally important as audio grade USB cables (it is true, isn't it?) -- then the 'we believe' thing is redundant.

This is certainly the domain of misleading-even-when-true, but not because of the belief thing. It is kinda like "if you do not eat at McDonald's, you will die" -- which is true, as you will die some time.

Edit: Gecko beat me at most of this.

This post has been edited by Porcus: Jan 4 2014, 02:23


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greynol
post Jan 4 2014, 03:28
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Extensive test:
We removed the "audio-grade" SATA cable while audio data was being transfered from the drive and audio was lost; just as audio was lost when removing the "audio-grade" USB cable while audio data was being transfered over it. We therefore conclude that they are equally important to audiophile playback...



...or non-audiophile playback, for that matter.

After all, one needs sound in order to have sound quality, no? huh.gif

This post has been edited by greynol: Jan 4 2014, 03:35
Reason for edit: punctuation


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Robertina
post Jan 4 2014, 04:31
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With regard to Jplay's marketing phrases, analysed by Gecko and Porcus:

So Jplay's advertisment promises only things which aren't legally recoverable (= promises nothing) and the prospective buyer is expected to pay for these figments of the imagination several hundred euros? Wouldn't this make the potential customer to be Jplay's disenfranchised cash cow?

My point of view is: Jplay's web site gives the impression that your computer will become a 'first-class' playback machine (don't let me define that) if you buy their soft- and hardware. In reality your PC becomes a computer with some deactivated Windows services, stability issues and some teflon coated cables.

"JPLAY instantly transforms your PC into high-end digital transport." (Jplay.eu)
"The shaman can treat sickness caused by evil spirits." (another source)
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Porcus
post Jan 4 2014, 13:22
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I do not say that the marketing ain't illegal -- that is up to the law, which may or may not be sensible -- I am saying that I think that even without the "we believe" issue it is kinda like marketing a $25000 wristwatch with claims that it shows time accurately by the second.

Except that in the market for exclusive watches they likely do not believe the last $20k is essential for that functionality.



QUOTE (Robertina @ Jan 4 2014, 04:31) *
"JPLAY instantly transforms your PC into high-end digital transport." (Jplay.eu)
"The shaman can treat sickness caused by evil spirits." (another source)


"Sin like this again and your soul cannot be saved for eternal life."

"Abstinence guarantees against bearing werefolf offspring."

"You haven't studied for the exam tomorrow - bring this magic charm or you will never get an A."

and, Hungarian mathematician Paul Erdős suggested
"Finally I am becoming stupider no more"
as his epitaph. I guess he found the cures against age dementia.


Oh, one more:

QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 4 2014, 03:28) *
After all, one needs sound in order to have sound quality, no? huh.gif


"Match input level to output level and you won't be able to ABX the difference."

(Now playing: 4'33")



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IMTanuki
post Jan 25 2014, 16:06
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I just installed and uninstalled JPLAY after discovering it's a POS.

However, even more disturbing, my MS Office license was reset to trial version. I tried re-entering the license key, but no success.

Has anyone experienced this problem after installing JPLAY?
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JJZolx
post Jan 28 2014, 04:34
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QUOTE (IMTanuki @ Jan 25 2014, 08:06) *
I just installed and uninstalled JPLAY after discovering it's a POS.

Why would you install it after discovering it was a POS?

How exactly did you discover this?
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andy o
post Jan 28 2014, 05:22
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QUOTE (JJZolx @ Jan 27 2014, 19:34) *
QUOTE (IMTanuki @ Jan 25 2014, 08:06) *
I just installed and uninstalled JPLAY after discovering it's a POS.

Why would you install it after discovering it was a POS?

Heh, s/he's saying that it unlicensed his/her MS Office, and that's what you find questionable? Isn't it clear, anyway?
QUOTE
How exactly did you discover this?

I think this whole thread is a huge hint.
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greynol
post Jan 28 2014, 06:12
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Nah, the unlicensing was in addition to whatever was the reason for it being a POS.


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mudlord
post Feb 22 2014, 02:46
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4

Highly recommended to watch.
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