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Energetic Classical
adlai
post Aug 13 2008, 18:36
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I'm not a big fan of classical music. It's boring, and for the most part its movements unfold at 10x the pace as compared to a typical pop song.

I am intrigued by energetic piano, violin, and orchestral pieces though, ones that avoid excessive repetition and which have an energetic mathematical vitality to them...suggestions?
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carpman
post Aug 13 2008, 19:10
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Not quite sure what you mean by "energetic mathematical vitality", but try:
Glenn Gould playing Precipitato from Prokofiev's Piano Sonata No.7 in B flat major.
It's certainly energetic, and Gould plays with mathematical precision. So ....

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pawelq
post Aug 13 2008, 19:11
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QUOTE (adlai @ Aug 13 2008, 13:36) *
I'm not a big fan of classical music. It's boring, and for the most part its movements unfold at 10x the pace as compared to a typical pop song.


I disgaree. Classical pieces do unfold, sometimes at slow pace, sometimes quickly. But pop songs do not unfold, they don't develop.


QUOTE
I am intrigued by energetic piano, violin, and orchestral pieces though, ones that avoid excessive repetition and which have an energetic mathematical vitality to them...suggestions?


Excessive repetition? Where did you hear excessive repetition in classical? Maybe in Carmina Burana, which are borderline classical ;-).

Suggestions (evergreens only):

Vivaldi Winter and Summer (last mvmnt in particular) from the Four Seasons, performed by Fabio Biondi.

Vivaldi's concerto for two cellos RV531


Beethoven Symphony No. 5, Carlos Kleiber. If you feel that there is too much repetition in the first movement, listen again and again. It's not repetition, it's based on a single simple motive, which is however changed, modified, placed in different contexts. This is what the piece is about.

Beethoven Piano Concerti No. 3 and 5, "Egmont" Ouverture. Just listen to the end.

Certain parts of Beethoven quartetts, check out movement 4 of Quartetto serioso Op. 95 (again, there is a slow introduction, be patient)

Brahms: much of his orchestral works are pretty energetic in some parts. Start with the Tragic Ouverture, check out the violin concerto (try Milstein and Fistoulari), you may also try both piano concertos (e.g., Gilels), in particular Movements 1 and 3 from No.1 and movement 2 form No.2. Certain parts of the symphonies, e.g. movement 3 & 4 of symphony no. 4.

In Paganini's 24 caprices you'll find much eneregtic, even though mediocre music.

For something less well known, give the Concerto for string orchestra by Bacewicz a try.

I ignored "mathematical", don't know what do you mean in the context.

This post has been edited by pawelq: Aug 13 2008, 19:12


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Kitsuned
post Aug 13 2008, 19:11
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Brian Setzer Orchestra maybe? He does a lot of rockabilly/jazz fusion. His latest album, Wolfgang's Night Out is a creative take on many classical pieces in a jazzy upbeat manner. You might want to look there.


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DVDdoug
post Aug 13 2008, 19:39
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I don't know that much about classical music either. And, I 'm not a big fan of recorded classical music, but some of it can be great live!

You might try some Tchaikovsky. If you live in the U.S.A., you've heard Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture played along with 4th of July fireworks. Even when it's played "normally" without the fireworks, it climaxes with canon fire!

There are a few classical music fans here, and I'm sure some of them are knowledgeable. But, this is really an audio forum, and you might try looking for a classical music forum. And, you can also go on Amazon or CD Universe, browse through some of the top-selling classical composers, and listen to the sample-clips.

QUOTE
I'm not a big fan of classical music. It's boring...
... Probably not the best way to start-up a conversation with a classical music fan who can help you. wink.gif Of course, you should be honest... But I'd suggest you also be tactful, and respectful of the music, otherwise classical music fans might ignore you or argue with you. When you say "it's boring", that's a statement about the music and that will probably get an argument. If you say "I find some of it boring", you are talking about your personal perceptions & feelings, and you are somewhat less likely to offend a classical music fan. (I'm not offended... I don't care... I'm just trying to give you some helpful advice.)
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Squeller
post Aug 13 2008, 19:47
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No repetitions? Autechre, Anti EP. wink.gif

QUOTE (adlai @ Aug 13 2008, 19:36) *
I'm not a big fan of classical music. It's boring
ROTFL.
I came from acid house in the late 80s over IDM (Ae and all this) to Classical music. Even baroque now. Even voice! I can tell you your assumption is wrong. But I don't feel like telling you why.

This post has been edited by Squeller: Aug 13 2008, 19:53
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Axon
post Aug 13 2008, 19:54
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Alban Berg. Berg, Berg, Berg. As far as both vitality and analytical genius go, he wears the pants. You've gotta respect a man who slipped hidden meanings into his music as a gift to his mistress (!) and structured an opera as a palindrome (!!!).

Other recommendations might be Paganini, Liszt, Bach solo pieces (notably The Art of the Fugue, but really, everything he's composed tends to be really good), and late Beethoven (Diabelli Variations, the Hammerklavier piano sonata, and all the late string quartets). Also try late Mozart (Requiem, The Magic Flute, etc). Shostakovich is also a really good bet.

QUOTE (Squeller @ Aug 13 2008, 13:47) *
No repetitions? Autechre, Anti EP. wink.gif

QUOTE (adlai @ Aug 13 2008, 19:36) *
I'm not a big fan of classical music. It's boring
ROTFL.
I came from acid house in the late 80s over IDM (Ae and all this) to Classical music. Even baroque now. Even voice! I can tell you your assumption is wrong. But I don't feel like telling you why.


C'mon... baby steps. He'll be listening through Einstein on the Beach in one sitting in no time.

This post has been edited by Axon: Aug 13 2008, 19:57
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adlai
post Aug 13 2008, 20:11
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not all pop songs, obviously, but the ones I listen to, such as the Joggers, have multiple interesting shifts within a 5 minute song.

QUOTE (carpman @ Aug 13 2008, 10:10) *
Not quite sure what you mean by "energetic mathematical vitality", but try:
Glenn Gould playing Precipitato from Prokofiev's Piano Sonata No.7 in B flat major.
It's certainly energetic, and Gould plays with mathematical precision. So ....

C.


This is exactly what I had in mind. thanks!
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adlai
post Aug 13 2008, 21:58
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QUOTE (pawelq @ Aug 13 2008, 10:11) *
QUOTE (adlai @ Aug 13 2008, 13:36) *

I'm not a big fan of classical music. It's boring, and for the most part its movements unfold at 10x the pace as compared to a typical pop song.


I disgaree. Classical pieces do unfold, sometimes at slow pace, sometimes quickly. But pop songs do not unfold, they don't develop.


QUOTE
I am intrigued by energetic piano, violin, and orchestral pieces though, ones that avoid excessive repetition and which have an energetic mathematical vitality to them...suggestions?


Excessive repetition? Where did you hear excessive repetition in classical? Maybe in Carmina Burana, which are borderline classical ;-).

Suggestions (evergreens only):

Vivaldi Winter and Summer (last mvmnt in particular) from the Four Seasons, performed by Fabio Biondi.

Vivaldi's concerto for two cellos RV531


Beethoven Symphony No. 5, Carlos Kleiber. If you feel that there is too much repetition in the first movement, listen again and again. It's not repetition, it's based on a single simple motive, which is however changed, modified, placed in different contexts. This is what the piece is about.

Beethoven Piano Concerti No. 3 and 5, "Egmont" Ouverture. Just listen to the end.

Certain parts of Beethoven quartetts, check out movement 4 of Quartetto serioso Op. 95 (again, there is a slow introduction, be patient)

Brahms: much of his orchestral works are pretty energetic in some parts. Start with the Tragic Ouverture, check out the violin concerto (try Milstein and Fistoulari), you may also try both piano concertos (e.g., Gilels), in particular Movements 1 and 3 from No.1 and movement 2 form No.2. Certain parts of the symphonies, e.g. movement 3 & 4 of symphony no. 4.

In Paganini's 24 caprices you'll find much eneregtic, even though mediocre music.

For something less well known, give the Concerto for string orchestra by Bacewicz a try.

I ignored "mathematical", don't know what do you mean in the context.


What little I have listened to of beethoven/mozart has left me bored to tears. To use an analogy, it's like a never-ending rolling grass field.

by mathematical, I mean really complex and lively music that has a certain logic from part to part. Like how different parts will converge in un-predicted directions.
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adlai
post Aug 13 2008, 22:10
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one more thing. Who are the best performers in your opinion? London symphony, cleveland sympohony, and others I'm seeing...
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Axon
post Aug 13 2008, 22:12
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That's largely up to personal preference. The conductor and the label matter just as much as the orchestra does.

You'll want to study up on reviews of the different performances and their specific differences if you want to make a specific decision on which record to get on quality grounds.
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MichaelW
post Aug 13 2008, 23:27
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Mathematical is probably Bach, though I'm illiterate in both mathematics and music. Well-Tempered Clavier has got some pretty rowdy stuff in it, too. Maybe you'll like a piano performance, rather than harpsichord. The Brandenburg Concertos are rousing stuff, too.

Not mentioned so far is Haydn. I always remember a friend who told me how to listen to Haydn -- you think there are repeats, but it's never the same; you can play a little game with yourself, working out where the music is going to go, and seeing where Haydn will trick you. He's also pretty funny, quite often. There are over 100 symphonies; the later ones are the more famous. I've also just got a two-disk set of Piano Sonatas played by Marc-Andre/ Hamelin, on Hyperion, which are fun.

Have fun.
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adlai
post Aug 13 2008, 23:35
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I picked up a bunch of prokofiev's stuff.

I realized that...symphonies are incredibly boring to me. It's all the same crescendos of horns, strings, etc.

So yeah, what I'm looking for is the solo piano or violin piece which sparkles with complexity and energy. Symphonies = me hating classical. And yeah, the prokofiev stuff I just picked up is all symphonies.
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pawelq
post Aug 14 2008, 00:16
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QUOTE (adlai @ Aug 13 2008, 18:35) *
Symphonies = me hating classical. And yeah, the prokofiev stuff I just picked up is all symphonies.


If symphonies are boring to you (come on, prokofiev's 1st boring? [that's probably because you should listen a lot to Haydn and Mozart before you go to Prokofiev 1st] Movement 2 of Prokofiev Symphony 5 boring?) try baroque, but stick to relatively recent performances by small ensambles which use original baroque instruments (or copies) and try to use performance techniques employed in the baroque era. Avoid big XX century orchestras here. Reinhardt Goebel, Fabio Biondi, "Il Giardino Armonico", Rene Jacobs, John Eliot Gardiner, Philippe Herreweghe (for Bach's Passions, though these are energetic in a very different sense from you expect, I think), are the names to look at.

Incidentally, Vivaldi's concerto's are usually pretty energetic, and many of them are for violin, including the 4 seasons which I mentioned earlier. No piano however, although certain baroque harpsichord pieces are played on a piano nowadays, piano was invented after they were written.

This post has been edited by pawelq: Aug 14 2008, 00:17


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patmcg
post Aug 14 2008, 08:02
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Orff - Carmina Burana
Bruch - Violin Concerto No. 1
Dvorak - Symphony No. 9 (New World)
Holst - The Planets
Mendelssohn - Violin Concerto in E minor
Tchaikovsky - Symphony No. 4
Schubert - Quintet in C Major
Haydn - Symphony No. 45
Saint-Saens - Cello Concerto No. 1
Rachmaninov - Piano Concerto No. 2


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MichaelW
post Aug 14 2008, 09:21
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I must confess that I, too, have a blind spot with Mozart, and I groove on Beethoven's symphonies much less than I used to.

I think you should, then, look at 18th century and 20th (and 21st) century music. In the 19th, after Beethoven, it's only downhill, from your (and, at times, my) point of view.

If you have a good, friendly, classical music store near you, establish a slight presence as a customer, and then ask one of the people there about what you're looking for. Helps if you go at non-busy time, and can give them a clue about what you like already. They will play a bit of their recommendation for you. That way I got put onto Steve Reich's Music for 18 Musicians, which was definitely not what I went into the store looking for.

Maybe try Shostakovich? Not the symphonies, where the terrible influence of Stalin and Socialist Realism can be a problem, but, say, the 24 Preludes and Fugues (for solo piano) are achingly beautiful, in a very controlled way.

Oh, and one word: Naxos. They're like a cross between Penguin Books and a low-cost airline: a terrific range of music, at about a third the cost of a full price album. Not the top-line performers, but really good professionals, probably giving better performances than the composers heard at the premiere.
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raceviper13
post Aug 14 2008, 13:13
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Albeniz - Asturias
Andrew Lloyd Webber - Overture to the Phantom of the Opera
Bach - Chaconne
Bach - Toccata Fugue in D Minor
Bellstedt - Napoli-Canzone, Napolitana con Variazioni
Bernardino Monterde - La Virgen de la Macarena
Camille Saint-Saens - Dance Macabre
Cincinnati Pops - Non-Stop Fast Polka, Op. 112
Cincinnati Pops - Sounds of the West
Copland - Fanfare For The Common Man
Edvard Jarnefelt - Praeludium
Elfman - Batman Theme
Erich Kunzel & the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra - Beetlejuice - Main Titles
Erich Kunzel & the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra - Conan the Barbarian - Anvil of Crom
Erich Kunzel & the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra - El Cid - Fanfare and Entry of the Nobles
Erich Kunzel & the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra - Hook - Main Themes
Erich Kunzel & the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra - Jurassic Park - Main Themes
Erich Kunzel & the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra - Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves - Main Titles
Erich Kunzel & the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra - The Rocketeer - To the Rescue and End Titles
Ernesto Lecuona - Siboney
Franz Von Suppe - Light Cavalry
Georges Enesco - Roumanian Rhapsody No. 1 in A major, Op. 11
Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue
Goldsmith - Star Trek
Gustav Holst - Jupiter, the Bringer of Jollity
Gustav Holst - Mars, the Bringer of War
Johan Halvorsen - Entry March of the Boyars
John Williams - Flying theme from 'E.T.'
John Williams - Imperial March from 'The Empire Strikes Back'
John Williams - March from 'Midway'
John Williams - March from 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'
John Williams - March from 'Superman'
John Williams - Olympic Fanfare
John Williams - Star Wars
John Williams - 'The Cowboys' Overture
Lecuona - Andalucía - Malagueńa
Lecuona - Gould
Louis Vierne - Symphony No. 3 - I. Allegro Maestoso
Manuel De Falla - Ritual Fire Dance
Modeste Moussorgsky - Night on Bald Mountain
Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky - Marche Slav
Proto - A Carmen Fantasy for Trumpet and Orchestra
Puccini - Medley of Famous Tenor Arias
Rafael Hernandez - El Cumbanchero
Rossini - La Danza
Rossini - Largo al factotum from The Barber of Seville, Act I
Scott Joplin - Maple Leaf Rag
Scott Joplin - The Entertainer-A Ragtime Two Step
Steven Pasero - Esto Scherzando
Steven Pasero - Grande Preludio
Steven Pasero - Malaguena
Steven Pasero - Romanza de Amor
Tchaikovsky - 1812 Overture, Op. 49
Tchaikovsky - Capriccio Italien
Tchaikovsky - Cossack Dance from Mazeppa
The Boston Pops - Scherzo (Litolff)
The Boston Pops Orchestra - Itsbynne Reel
The Boston Pops Orchestra - Loftus Jones (O'Carolan)
The Boston Pops Orchestra - O'Sullivan's March from Rob Roy
The Boston Pops Orchestra - Riverdance
The Boston Pops Orchestra - Scottish Dance 1 (Arnold)
Traditional - El Carretero
Vincent Youmans, Gus Kahn, Edward Eliscu - Carloca
York - Bantu
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Raiden
post Aug 14 2008, 13:57
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Try Venetian Snares - Rossz csillag alatt született.
It's a very good classical music/breakcore hybrid.
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patmcg
post Aug 14 2008, 20:32
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Hall of the Mountain King

plus a lot of the other mentioned pieces are also on youtube.


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waltereegho
post Aug 31 2008, 22:00
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Karl Jenkins - Palladio
Epic piece of classical music, especially the ending.

You could also try anything by Tchaikovsky. 6th symphony is anything but slow and boring.
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bennetng
post Sep 1 2008, 13:06
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"Flight of the Bumblebee" should be energetic enough.
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jido
post Sep 3 2008, 23:05
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I am not really knowledgeable in classical music, but I would recommend you Haydn and Erik Satie.

I have a nice disk that could suit you but it is more jazz than classical, Arabian Waltz - Rabih Abou-Kalil (sorry for the slight off-topic).
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melomaniac
post Sep 8 2008, 13:31
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Mussorgsky - Pictures at an Exhibition (piano & orchestral versions by Ravel, Ashkenazy, Stokowski)

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Amazon (samples)
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