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Topic: Sennheiser HD 580! (Read 8810 times) previous topic - next topic
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Sennheiser HD 580!

Some straight questions:

Has anyone actually go "Sennheiser HD 580"?

Are they really that good?

How much can they be picked up for?

Do they need an amp?

If yes, which amp is recommended and how much does it cost?

[EDIT]  Are the "Rega EAR Headphone AMP (Mk1)" any good?  [/EDIT]

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #1 –
I have an HD580 as well as Sony MDR-V6, Koss KSC-35 & 50 and the HD580 is easily my favorite. I use it daily out of my Audigy into a JMT built CHA-47 "Penguin" amp for music & gaming.

I got it on sale at newegg for $125, but the price of them depends on your region. I believe they can be had for less in Europe, particularly in the UK. It was easily worth the $125 I paid. From what I've read the HD580 is basically an earlier version of the HD600 (pictured in the Hydrogen Audio title image) with same drivers but different housing and that they sound very similar if not the same.

They don't necessarily need an amp, but to really get the most out of them you'll want an amp. They are hard to drive. My SlimX can't really drive them acceptably. The sound directly out of a soundcard might be a bit thin. Out of the headphone jack of my bookshelf system it does sound pretty good, although there's a noticeable amount of background noise.

As for amps that's a tough question, but for a decent amp expect to pay around $100 or so. There aren't many options under $100 except finding a used CMOY or CHA-47 on headfi.org or headwize forums. The most recommended quality amp (at a fairly inexpensive price) seems to be home built META42s, you can find people that will build one for you at the previously mentioned sites.

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #2 –
I own HD580 too, and the only drawback I find is that they are a little too bright and bass short for me. But many other people find them OK, I guess it depends on personal preference (and possibly ear shape).

As to headphone amp, if you have an amplifier or receiver with spare speaker outputs, you can use them as headphone outputs building a simple impedance adaptor.

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #3 –
OK, I have 2.1 speakers at home.  The 2 satelites are powered by the 1 sub-woofer which acts as the amp (30W max output power) for the 2 satelites.  This woofer also has a headphone socket.  Do you think this would provide enough power for the headphones?  If not, how much power do they need, to get the most out of them?

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #4 –
Headphones really don't need much power, just about some mWatt.

To drive properly a though headphone (usually means it's high impedance, low senstitivity) you just need high enough voltage at the output. As to output impedance, headphones don't need a really low output impedance. 120 Ohm is a standarized output impedance value for headphones, but some of them with big impedance variations (HD580 for example) or low impedances may sound better with a lower output impedance. 10-20 Ohm is low enough to drive properly any headphone, and about the proper impedance for the HD580 not to get audibly loaded from this output impedance.

Edit: according to ABX criteria for audible frequency responses at http://www.pcavtech.com/ABX/abx_crit.htm , an output impedance as high as 150 ohm. or a little more would not cause an audible difference in case of HD580. Haven't done calculations myself (I'm lazy, other person did), but I trust them.

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #5 –
@KikeG

According to headphone.com, the Sennheiser HD 580s have the impedance value of 300!  Does this mean that the amp must also have 300 as the impedance value?

[EDIT]

I have found an amp with the following spec:

Maximum output level into 32W load = 525 mW
Input sensitivity for maximum output into 32W = 331 mV
Input level for 250 mW into 32W load = 230 mV
Maximum output level into 600W load = 55 mW
Input sensitivity for maximum output input 600W = 465mV
Input impedance = 24KW
Gain = 21.7dB
Power requirements = 24V AC @ 240mA
Frequency response = 20Hz to 35KHz - 1dB points
Recommended minimum load (normal operating conditions) = 32W per channel

Is it suitable for the Sennheiser HD 580?

[/EDIT]

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #6 –
@jenny:

No. In case of audio, it's always better that the output impedance of source is lower than the input impedance of the "receiver". If you look at the HD580 impedance curve at headphone.com, you'll see that 300 is about the minimum impedance, but 600 is the maximum. This is quite a great impedance variation. In order for the sound no to be affected from this big variation, output impedance needs to be very small in comparison with the minimum impedance of the headphone. That's why I gave the 10-20 Ohm value as fine for this headphone. It's an electrical thing, just Ohm's law (V = I x R). This is what I tried to summarize in my previous post.

Edit: minimum value does not need to be that low in case of HD580, see previous post.

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #7 –
Quote
I have found an amp with the following spec:

Maximum output level into 32W load = 525 mW
Input sensitivity for maximum output into 32W = 331 mV
Input level for 250 mW into 32W load = 230 mV
Maximum output level into 600W load = 55 mW
Input sensitivity for maximum output input 600W = 465mV
Input impedance = 24KW
Gain = 21.7dB
Power requirements = 24V AC @ 240mA
Frequency response = 20Hz to 35KHz - 1dB points
Recommended minimum load (normal operating conditions) = 32W per channel

Is it suitable for the Sennheiser HD 580?

I made a change to the post above.  Don't know if you noticed?  What about "Input inpedance = 24KW", is that too much?

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #8 –
I hadn't noticed. Just one question, when you write "W" or "KW", do you mean "Ohm" and "KOhm"? (Ohm symbol is like inverted V or U)

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #9 –
Quote
I hadn't noticed. Just one question, when you write "W" or "KW", do you mean "Ohm" and "KOhm"? (Ohm symbol is like inverted V or U)

I just copied it straight out of a web site, so I dont know?

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #10 –
Any link?

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #11 –
Quote
Any link?

Yep...

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #12 –
I guess "W" means Ohm... About output levels, I would have to check headphones requirements. 24KOhm input impedance is fine. However, they don't give output impedance nor other parameters that would be useful. For that price, that amp should be good, but who knows. Anyway, a good headphone amp wouldn't need to cost as much as this one costs, it's a relatively simple thing.

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #13 –
Thanks for all the help KikeG

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #14 –
Yes, i own a pair, i think you replied in another post where i was asking about them whre i have summed up all my feelings about them.
They are great headphone's and i can drive them quite well from my soundcard, i am sure an amp would improve it but it's amazing anyway. You can get them cheapest in the UK, from www.unbeatable.co.uk and they do a 7 day price match as well to make sure

They are much cheaper than anywhere else and well worth it, very comfy too!

Cheers,

Kristian

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #15 –
W = watts, not ohms.

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #16 –
I own a pair of 580s.  Very happy with them.  Did have some trouble with the headphone cord, but otherwise great sound.  I drive them with a  Headroom "Cosmic" amplifier.  Its a bit on the expensive side and I wouldn't claim that you need it to drive the 580s - it is just a great amplifier if you have the $ (very low noise, headphone signal processing and wicked loud with low distortion).  Headroom also has some very reasonably priced models if you want/need a separate headphone amplifier.  I would be surprised if you couldn't plug the 580s into just about any headphone jack and really enjoy the music.
Was that a 1 or a 0?

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #17 –
yeah, W = watts (measure of power), not ohms (measure of resistance, similar to impedance)

I've had a pair for a few months.  They're great if you can get them relatively cheap (I paid $130).  They've been known to have weak cords that occasionally have to be replaced but have excellent sound.  If you're spending in this range (over $100) I'd highly recommend them.

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #18 –
Quote
W = watts, not ohms.

Quote
yeah, W = watts (measure of power), not ohms (measure of resistance, similar to impedance)


Yeah, I know "W" are supposed to be watts, I'm not that ignorant .However, in the context, some of the specs don't have any sense if you assume W to be Watts: "Input impedance = 24KW", "32W load" has no sense. It should be "Input impedance = 24KOhm" and  "32 Ohm load".

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #19 –
Is HD-580 a discontinued product? I was told so in a shop that is also the official importer of Sennheiser products for Slovenia. They do have HD-600, but it costs 280 €. Few months ago they still had HD-580 listed in their net catalog and the price was 150 €, so I don't want to waste extra 130 € to get almost the same headphones.

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #20 –
I think they are discontinued yes. They are an old design compared to almost all other current Sennheiser headphones. The drivers are excellent, but the looks are a lot worse than current state of the art

W is sometimes used for resistance if the Ohm sign is not available.

It doesn't say everything about being able to drive them or not. I had HD570 with 64 Ohms, and now a HD580 with 300 Ohms. The HD580 is louder

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #21 –
I haven't heard the 600s, but from other user's comments, and given the huge price difference (especially here in the UK - maybe you could import them from here?) the HD580s are currently much better value for money.

I love mine. I don't agree that they're overly bright - they make bright and overcompressed tracks sound bright, but on well recorded and mixed tracks they are beautiful. (of course, this is a purely subjective opinion! YMMV( And when the track has a lot of bass, they can deliver it - very low bass too e.g. 30Hz is surprisingly loud.


Cheers,
David.

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #22 –
Quote
It doesn't say everything about being able to drive them or not. I had HD570 with 64 Ohms, and now a HD580 with 300 Ohms. The HD580 is louder

Headphone output in amplis are often 330 Ohm resistors in serial with the speaker output.
In this case, if we just use the DC Ohm's law, the current is

I = U / (330 + W)

W being the impedance of the headphones in Ohm.

And the power in the headphones is
P=W*I^2
P=W*(U/(330+W))^2

Here's the graph of the function P(W), with U=1



In this case, you should actually expect more power from 300 Ohm headphones than from 64 Ohm ones !

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #23 –
Quote
And the power in the headphones is
P=W*I^2

Uh?

Edit: Nevermind

Sennheiser HD 580!

Reply #24 –
Quote
Quote
And the power in the headphones is
P=W*I^2

Uh?

Did I make a mistake ?
I called R "W" (impedance of the headphones), and
U = RI
P = UI
Thus
P = RI x I = RI^2