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[TOS #8] From: Audible Differences in DAC's?, From Topic ID: 98744
SoNic67
post Jan 14 2013, 03:34
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QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jan 9 2013, 18:47) *
For example there are 8 channel 24/192 DACs that have 105 dB dynamic range and are used on the outputs of the DSPs in AVRs. Less than $3. Each DAC costs about 3/8 of a dollar or $0.375.

And IMO they sound like $0.375... I have heard some of those "105dB dynamic range" DAC's in AVR's that use "one chip to rule them all" for DAC and ADC. Those are not the best examples of AVR quality.
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Jan 14 2013, 14:46
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QUOTE (SoNic67 @ Jan 13 2013, 21:34) *
QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jan 9 2013, 18:47) *
For example there are 8 channel 24/192 DACs that have 105 dB dynamic range and are used on the outputs of the DSPs in AVRs. Less than $3. Each DAC costs about 3/8 of a dollar or $0.375.

And IMO they sound like $0.375... I have heard some of those "105dB dynamic range" DAC's in AVR's that use "one chip to rule them all" for DAC and ADC. Those are not the best examples of AVR quality.



Two words: TOS 8.

The statement above would appear to violate the terms of service you agreed to when you signed up.

TOS 8 is a major tool that defends this place from the rampant arrogance and stupidity that hobbles the modern audio world.
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db1989
post Jan 14 2013, 14:55
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QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jan 14 2013, 13:46) *
QUOTE (SoNic67 @ Jan 13 2013, 21:34) *
QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jan 9 2013, 18:47) *
For example there are 8 channel 24/192 DACs that have 105 dB dynamic range and are used on the outputs of the DSPs in AVRs. Less than $3. Each DAC costs about 3/8 of a dollar or $0.375.
And IMO they sound like $0.375... I have heard some of those "105dB dynamic range" DAC's in AVR's that use "one chip to rule them all" for DAC and ADC. Those are not the best examples of AVR quality.
Two words: TOS 8.

The statement above would appear to violate the terms of service you agreed to when you signed up.

TOS 8 is a major tool that defends this place from the rampant arrogance and stupidity that hobbles the modern audio world.

Yep, and saying “IMO” does not magically make it all right, as so many people seem to think it will.

SoNic67, if you have no evidence of your statement, it will be sent to the Recycle Bin.
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SoNic67
post Jan 16 2013, 20:45
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 14 2013, 08:55) *
SoNic67, if you have no evidence of your statement, it will be sent to the Recycle Bin.

Then send the WHOLE thread there. There is no way you can prove the opposite statement either. You either hear the difference for yourself or not. Arnold says that he doesn't hear a difference - you didn't make him support that affirmation.

In this case, personally I prefer the sound of old school multibit DAC (like PCM61, 63) to the sound of PCM1792.
I hear the difference between OpAmps like LM4562 and generic jelly-bean that are usually found in many DAC's - so much that I replaced them in all my DAC's/CD/receivers.
It is my opinion that I hear differences in the high-frequency domain. How would I "prove" that to Arnold? How can he "prove" his opinion that what I hear is not true?

This post has been edited by SoNic67: Jan 16 2013, 20:48
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db1989
post Jan 16 2013, 20:50
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Ah, implying that dismissal of differences claimed without evidence requires the same standard of proof as the claims themselves. A classic fallacy.
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SoNic67
post Jan 16 2013, 20:52
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QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jan 14 2013, 08:52) *
Thing is, even with the added distortion performance is still below the thresholds of hearing, and not by a little bit.

So are you gonna delete that too? I don't see any proof there, just a claim.

This post has been edited by SoNic67: Jan 16 2013, 20:53
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db1989
post Jan 16 2013, 21:28
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Apparently you require very basic concepts of objectivity to be explained piece by piece.

There is a large difference between claims based upon a combination of objective measurements (THD, etc.) and generalised trends derived from sets of data regarding the physiology of large numbers of listeners, vs. claims from a single person made subjectively and without any body of evidence to back them up.

There is also a large difference between claiming that something exists vs. dismissing an unsubstantiated claim that it exists; the burden of proof must be shouldered by the person claiming positively, not by the person who refuses to accept the claim on faith due to the lack of evidence proferred.

With regard to either dichotomy, asserting a false equivalence between the two positions therein is highly disengenuous – and if you think it’s making you look better here, you’re very mistaken.
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