1st Flashed-Based FLAC Player, iAudio U3 Options

[windmiller]

iAudio has a flashed-based player in the works that supports FLAC and Ogg. So far its only listed on there Korean site.

iAudio U3

This post has been edited by windmiller: Jan 11 2006, 00:02

[davechapman]

But it is only capable of FLAC level 0, 1 and 2 - i.e. files only containing fixed predictors. Which basically rules out all real-world FLAC files.

As a comparison, the FLAC decoder in Rockbox (which is based on the decoder found in the ffmpeg project, not the libFLAC decoder) can comfortably decode all FLAC files (including -8) in realtime with the iriver H1x0's Coldfire CPU underclocked to 34MHz.

So FLAC shouldn't be a problem for even the most underpowered DAPs.

This post has been edited by davechapman: Nov 5 2005, 23:14

[windmiller]

But it is only capable of FLAC level 0, 1 and 2 - i.e. files only containing fixed predictors.  Which basically rules out all real-world FLAC files.

So FLAC shouldn't be a problem for even the most underpowered DAPs.

Its ridiculous that they crippled it by limiting it but iAudio is farily good at releasing firmware so maybe they will improve the FLAC support once its released.
Does the Rockbox firmware for the Iriver H300 series support all Flac files?

This post has been edited by windmiller: Nov 6 2005, 00:09

[davechapman]

Its ridiculous that they crippled it by limiting it but iAudio is farily good at releasing firmware so maybe they will improve the FLAC support once its released.
Does the Rockbox firmware for the Iriver H300 series support all Flac files?

Rockbox doesn't yet run on the H300 series - only the H100 series. But yes, on the H1x0, all FLAC files are supported, even 24-bit files (but they are only played back via a 16-bit DAC).

When Rockbox does finally appear on the H300, it will feature identical audio playback - the CPU is identical in both devices.

[windmiller]

Its ridiculous that they crippled it by limiting it but iAudio is farily good at releasing firmware so maybe they will improve the FLAC support once its released.
Does the Rockbox firmware for the Iriver H300 series support all Flac files?

When Rockbox does finally appear on the H300, it will feature identical audio playback - the CPU is identical in both devices.

Thanks, my girlfriend has a H320 and the only reason we have encoded some of our FLAC files to Ogg is so she can play on them on her H320. It will be nice one we can have just FLAC files!

[batagy]

As a comparison, the FLAC decoder in Rockbox (which is based on the decoder found in the ffmpeg project, not the libFLAC decoder) can comfortably decode all FLAC files (including -8) in realtime with the iriver H1x0's Coldfire CPU underclocked to 34MHz.

Thanks for this info, Dave.
I even didn't know that there are portables that are capable playing flac files.

I've just checked iriver website, and I can't find nor iriver H110 neither H120 model there. Did they stopped to produce these models?

[jcoalson]

Thanks for this info, Dave.
I even didn't know that there are portables that are capable playing flac files.

http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html#hardware

[batagy]

http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html#hardware

Thanks for refresh my brain with that link. I knew that, but forgot somehow.
I've just scanned through that hardware list, and for my big surprise there isn't any cheap DVD player which can play flac files. I would like to see a simple DVD player, which doesn't have any hard disk, which plays flacs burned on DVD-R.
Does anybody know such a home player?

[DreamTactix291]

Its ridiculous that they crippled it by limiting it but iAudio is farily good at releasing firmware so maybe they will improve the FLAC support once its released.
Does the Rockbox firmware for the Iriver H300 series support all Flac files?

When Rockbox does finally appear on the H300, it will feature identical audio playback - the CPU is identical in both devices.

Thanks, my girlfriend has a H320 and the only reason we have encoded some of our FLAC files to Ogg is so she can play on them on her H320. It will be nice one we can have just FLAC files!

Once you get Rockbox on the unit (no exact date, but to be honest once the bootloader is written a lot of the work is already done) then it will be able to play FLAC files as well as two other lossless formats: WavPack and Apple Lossless.

As a comparison, the FLAC decoder in Rockbox (which is based on the decoder found in the ffmpeg project, not the libFLAC decoder) can comfortably decode all FLAC files (including -8) in realtime with the iriver H1x0's Coldfire CPU underclocked to 34MHz.

Thanks for this info, Dave.
I even didn't know that there are portables that are capable playing flac files.

I've just checked iriver website, and I can't find nor iriver H110 neither H120 model there. Did they stopped to produce these models?

They were discontinued approximately one year ago. They're still obtainable; it's just not as easy as in the past.

[jcoalson]

I've just scanned through that hardware list, and for my big surprise there isn't any cheap DVD player which can play flac files. I would like to see a simple DVD player, which doesn't have any hard disk, which plays flacs burned on DVD-R.
Does anybody know such a home player?

there is one due out this year that should play FLAC off DVD but it will also have a hard drive I think. I'm expecting a test unit soon.

Josh

[windmiller]

Why do companies limit the ability to only play certain types of Flac files? Is there less development involved?

[jcoalson]

it is usually because of the processing demands. in iAudio's case (at least in the x5) the cpu was kind of on the borderline being able to play higher modes until they did some optimization. I think they use a coldfire (forgot what speed); most of the ARM-based systems using libFLAC as far a I know can run the straight C code at >=74MHz which is the usual configuration.

Josh

[windmiller]

it is usually because of the processing demands.  in iAudio's case (at least in the x5) the cpu was kind of on the borderline being able to play higher modes until they did some optimization.  I think they use a coldfire (forgot what speed); most of the ARM-based systems using libFLAC as far a I know can run the straight C code at >=74MHz which is the usual configuration.

Josh

Thanks for the explanation.

[davechapman]

it is usually because of the processing demands.  in iAudio's case (at least in the x5) the cpu was kind of on the borderline being able to play higher modes until they did some optimization.  I think they use a coldfire (forgot what speed); most of the ARM-based systems using libFLAC as far a I know can run the straight C code at >=74MHz which is the usual configuration.

Josh

For Rockbox, we started with libFLAC (before switch to the ffmpeg FLAC decoder), and managed with some optimisation to get it running realtime on the iriver H1x0's 125MHz Coldfire CPU (for all compression settings including order 12 lpc). I think the iAudio devices have the same Coldfire CPU.

Out of curiosity, do you know whether all the hardware devices you mention use libFLAC or if any of the hardware manufacturers have implemented their own decoders?

[jcoalson]

I'm not sure how specific I can get, but as far as I know, all of the devices out now at least started with libFLAC as the base. I know of a few custom dsp implementations in the works but not sure when/if any will be out.

there are some other decoders available, Miroslav Lichvar wrote a much simpler single-frame-based decoder (http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/flac-dev/2...ber/001461.html) and there are some java impls (j-ogg, jflac)

Josh

[batagy]

I've just scanned through that hardware list, and for my big surprise there isn't any cheap DVD player which can play flac files. I would like to see a simple DVD player, which doesn't have any hard disk, which plays flacs burned on DVD-R.
Does anybody know such a home player?

there is one due out this year that should play FLAC off DVD but it will also have a hard drive I think. I'm expecting a test unit soon.

Josh

Hi Josh,
May I know more about this standalone Flac player? Is there a website for that product?
I'm just interested in it.

[jcoalson]

sure, it's the zensonic z500: http://www.z500series.com/

they sent me one over the holidays but I have not had much chance to play with it yet. so far it looks pretty neat and plays FLAC off a usb drive fine. when I get some time I will give it a work out and post a review in the hardware section.

Josh

[batagy]

sure, it's the zensonic z500: http://www.z500series.com/

they sent me one over the holidays but I have not had much chance to play with it yet.  so far it looks pretty neat and plays FLAC off a usb drive fine.  when I get some time I will give it a work out and post a review in the hardware section.

Josh

Thanks Josh,

I've just checked this player on that webpage, it seems really excellent, it has great features, maybe even too many features. It's quiet expensive, although if I compare its price to let's say price of Iriver H320 portable, they are in the same price range, and the Z500 much better (for me) for that price.
I like that it plays files from the DVD, and an external HDD can be connected via USB2. I like that the USB2 connector is on the front panel.

It can't be purchased in Europe at the moment.
Looking forward your review if you will have time to do that.

[jimhaddon]

http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html#hardware

Thanks for refresh my brain with that link. I knew that, but forgot somehow.
I've just scanned through that hardware list, and for my big surprise there isn't any cheap DVD player which can play flac files. I would like to see a simple DVD player, which doesn't have any hard disk, which plays flacs burned on DVD-R.
Does anybody know such a home player?

You can buy an Xbox and modify it to play FLAC, AAC, Ogg, MP3 divx or anything!

[HisInfernalMajes...]

I own an iAudio X5 and I'm able to play FLAC files at level 8 with no problem (the box says it's limited to 0, 1, and 2) ever since one of the firmware upgrades I've made in the past... Maybe iAudio will work out the same issues that the X5 had with a firmware upgrade?

[batagy]

You can buy an Xbox and modify it to play FLAC, AAC, Ogg, MP3 divx or anything!

Yes, I knew that. Indeed, that seems the most cheapest solution.
But, I searched for a player which looks like a HIFI equipment, and the XBOX is so ugly .
But you're right, it can be done. Maybe once I'll try to get a second hand one XBOX and modify it.

[jcoalson]

after playing with it a while, I can confirm the z500 plays 44.1kHz/16/2 FLAC from DVD, a plugged in USB device, and SMB shares, and probably works with uPnP but I don't have a setup for that to test with. it also can upmix stereo to 5.1 via dolby prologic IIx which to my average hearing sounds pretty good. there are still a couple of FLAC-related kinks (tags and gaplessness) to be worked out in upcoming firmware which I'm waiting on for the full review.

it's currently only available in australia but I met with one of the Zensonic guys and he said they intend to offer it in the US/europe.

Josh

[windmiller]

Thanks for the update.

[Synaptic Line No...]

I saw flash-based, I thought this was about a Macromedia Flash based player, heh.

[batagy]

Thanks Josh, for some info.
Maybe the next firmware release will last for a while, because the player contains several bugs, as I read on its forum. But looks promising indeed.