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AudioSAFE, New online backup concept
Robertina
post Jul 21 2011, 13:21
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Is it possible that we are stopped from getting access to www.audiosafe.com if we block in our firewall URLs which contain the word "googleadservices" (> 'Error: Could not connect to remote server')?

This situation does not occur with any other web site, dbpoweramp.com included.
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Garf
post Jul 21 2011, 21:35
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QUOTE (googlebot @ Jul 21 2011, 14:00) *
IMHO the business model is severely flawed. Storage and downstream bandwidth cause real costs for the operator. A very artificial business model funnels all these costs to upstream users. The most under-utilized resource in this service - upstream capacity - is getting charged most. A good business model has a pricing structure that motivates customers in a way that implicitly optimizes resource usage (and cost). This one doesn't, it's rather the opposite. To me it looks like a business model trying to look different from the rest at any price.


I believe you've already completely undermined your own argument? As you already noted, client->server traffic will be low because of deduplication. Traffic back to the user cannot be deduplicated and costs money.

So it works the right way around, doesn't it?

QUOTE
IMHO a good business model, if you have a good deduplication product would be letting users leverage exactly that: pay less the better your data can be deduplicated. For example, pay close to zero storage costs for accurately ripped, lossless tracks of popular albums. ... Costs for users would increase for users of rare, lossy formats and special taste... Same here: the more a user has followed best practices for encoding and ripping, the lower his average storage costs would be.


I think that if you have a pricing structure your users can't understand let alone predict well, then your business isn't going to fly. This is just too complicated.
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spoon
post Jul 21 2011, 21:42
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I am unable to go into the exact details of the backup system employed, suffice to say it is easily the most advanced audio backup system designed (a good 9 months was spent purely on this detail), it is a very efficient design, beyond that I am unable to offer any more information.


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DonP
post Jul 21 2011, 22:11
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QUOTE (Garf @ Jul 21 2011, 04:40) *
QUOTE (spoon @ Jul 21 2011, 10:34) *
I think Google will have limits and / or yearly fees (when they leave beta), this area is moving fast between google and amazon. We are billing this purely for backup, streaming would be a different model.


I would presume that they also automatically recommend stuff and make money on those sales. But Google didn't manage to get a record deal, so you're probably right.


When you open the account they seed it with some free tracks in genres you say you like. WIth those (and and what you upload) you have an option to "shop this artist" which may get them a commission from the on-line stores (as with Amazon's affiliate program) or a click-through payment (as with normal ads on Google products) even if they didn't get a deal to sell direct.
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krabapple
post Jul 21 2011, 22:38
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I have yet to be able to load the audiosafe page ;<
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spoon
post Jul 21 2011, 22:57
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QUOTE (krabapple @ Jul 21 2011, 22:38) *
I have yet to be able to load the audiosafe page ;<


A small % of people are getting routing issues to the new server, incidentally accuraterip is now on this server and there are a bunch of people who cannot reach it. It is a top priority correct this issue.


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googlebot
post Jul 22 2011, 07:45
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So you start deduplication already at the client level, interesting. Then it makes more sense.
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googlebot
post Jul 22 2011, 09:23
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Oh, just noticed that this was an answer by Garf, not spoon. IF deduplication is done on the client side, then this would be true. For example: 1. extract raw audio stream on the client, 2. hash it, 3. send hash to server, 4. if match, send only meta-data to server, else the whole file.

This post has been edited by googlebot: Jul 22 2011, 09:24
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Robertina
post Jul 22 2011, 13:22
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spoon, I now can open audiosafe.com (apparently I belonged to that 'small % of people' with routing issues and that I temporarily managed to reach your web site by deactivating my Internet content blocking filter had just been a coincidence).

For prospective customers it probably would be interesting to know where your servers will be located (USA or Europe) and if the Patriot Act or European Data Protection Acts will be applied to them (this would be of peculiar interest for those who plan to upload not only audio files, but also private documents). So can you say something about your privacy policy? Will some of your employees have access to your customers private data? How will that private data be protected from beeing modified by your staff?
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Soap
post Jul 22 2011, 14:32
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QUOTE (Robertina @ Jul 22 2011, 08:22) *
So can you say something about your privacy policy? Will some of your employees have access to your customers private data? How will that private data be protected from beeing modified by your staff?


No offense to him but if you are at all concerned about these things there is only one proper response: Encrypt your data. No vendor response should ever convince you otherwise.

Protection of your data from outside eyes is ultimately your responsibility. Period.


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SCOTU
post Jul 22 2011, 17:07
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Does the 500MB limit apply to things like album scans? I easily have more than 500MB of album scans, not counting things that came along with the CD that aren't Audio data. Similarly, do embedded resources like album art count against this 500MB? I.e. If I embedded all of my album scans into my audio, would I be allowed to store my GB of album scans, but not allowed to do so if they're just image files alongside the audio? On a similar note, could I then just embed all the accessory data of an album all inside my audio files to not have them count? I know you can include non-audio data in FLAC tags, but I don't know what limits there are. However, a more flexible format like MKA can basically hold whatever I throw at it.
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Notat
post Jul 22 2011, 19:31
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Why would I want to engage a separate backup service just for music?
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pdq
post Jul 22 2011, 19:39
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QUOTE (Notat @ Jul 22 2011, 14:31) *
Why would I want to engage a separate backup service just for music?

Because it's free?
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_mē_
post Jul 22 2011, 21:01
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@Soap:
The world is not black and white and different things need different protections. I find my music to be fairly insensitive information and low cost of breaches makes trust a sufficient protection. But I would too feel better if the servers were a subject to EU regulations and not US ones.

@Notat:
I can answer from my personal perspective:
Because it's the only big data that I have. The rest of my content is so small that I keep a dozen of copies spread all around the internet, family computers, thumb drives etc. (Yes, encrypted.) Can't do this with music. I'm promissing myself to make a good backup strategy, but I keep doing so for several years already, I do have some backups but it's not organized and some solution that costs little maintainance and 0 in money unless I actually need it would be a good temporary solution and a perfect last chance protection when I finally implement something myself.

This post has been edited by _mē_: Jul 22 2011, 21:03
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Soap
post Jul 22 2011, 21:04
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QUOTE (_mē_ @ Jul 22 2011, 16:01) *
@Soap:
The world is not black and white and different things need different protections. I find my music to be fairly insensitive information and low cost of breaches makes trust a sufficient protection. But I would too feel better if the servers were a subject to EU regulations and not US ones.

What is the difference US and EU regulations regarding the off-site storage of audio data which causes you concern?


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_mē_
post Jul 22 2011, 21:30
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EU has nice rules on private data handling. Audio isn't private data, usually, but one can never know and in general all companies that store user data that they can't verify have to abide by these rules.
US acts differently, companies have to hand over whatever data they have when government asks for them (it's called patriot act).

This post has been edited by _mē_: Jul 22 2011, 21:31
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Teknojnky
post Jul 22 2011, 21:37
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QUOTE (Soap @ Jul 22 2011, 08:32) *
No offense to him but if you are at all concerned about these things there is only one proper response: Encrypt your data. No vendor response should ever convince you otherwise.

Protection of your data from outside eyes is ultimately your responsibility. Period.


I agree that if one's privacy is their utmost priority, then they must encrypt said data so that only they could possibly access/restore it.

That said, I would expect that encryption would put a damper on any type of deduplication efficiencies (assuming the system is using some type of dedupe).

something like a cuetools/rsync type scanner/verifier that checks in your files against existing stored data, then stores only your delta would be pretty clever.



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Soap
post Jul 22 2011, 21:54
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QUOTE (_mē_ @ Jul 22 2011, 16:30) *
US acts differently, companies have to hand over whatever data they have when government asks for them (it's called patriot act).


Lol.

Citation needed.

EDIT:

Let's be less glib and just say that the Patriot Act, for all its many flaws, does not work like that.


This post has been edited by Soap: Jul 22 2011, 22:05


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_mē_
post Jul 23 2011, 06:33
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QUOTE (Soap @ Jul 22 2011, 22:54) *
QUOTE (_mē_ @ Jul 22 2011, 16:30) *
US acts differently, companies have to hand over whatever data they have when government asks for them (it's called patriot act).


Lol.

Citation needed.

EDIT:

Let's be less glib and just say that the Patriot Act, for all its many flaws, does not work like that.



https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w...tems_under_FISA
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Robertina
post Jul 23 2011, 07:03
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QUOTE (Soap @ Jul 22 2011, 02:32) *
QUOTE (Robertina @ Jul 22 2011, 08:22) *
So can you say something about your privacy policy? Will some of your employees have access to your customers private data? How will that private data be protected from beeing modified by your staff?

No offense to him but if you are at all concerned about these things there is only one proper response: Encrypt your data.

No offense to you but a Cloud Service provider who doesn't publish a data protection guideline or who has currently none can't be taken seriously. I want to be fair and of course I see that the whole project still is in its early beta phase, so that other aspects may be much more important to spoon at the moment, but to be honest, that he maintains his silence about that matter irritates. Data encryption can be indeed an additional safety measure to prevent unauthorized access but on no account would this step release a Cloud Service offerer from his duty to fulfil Data Privacy Acts and to make sure that not everyone can dig around in his customers' private documents.

QUOTE
Protection of your data from outside eyes is ultimately your responsibility. Period.

I disagree. Hacked companies can be held responsible for data theft and they are beeing held responsible for it. Go and ask Sony and all the others.
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Robertina
post Jul 23 2011, 07:12
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QUOTE (Soap @ Jul 22 2011, 09:54) *
QUOTE (_mē_ @ Jul 22 2011, 16:30) *
US acts differently, companies have to hand over whatever data they have when government asks for them (it's called patriot act).

Lol. ... Citation needed. ... EDIT: Let's be less glib and just say that the Patriot Act, for all its many flaws, does not work like that.

Some links for you.Europe:
Directive 95/46 of the European Parliament on the protection of individuals with regard to the processing of personal data
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mobyduck
post Jul 23 2011, 11:00
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QUOTE (spoon @ Jul 20 2011, 12:56) *
A dedicated program is required for the upload.
Windows only? Or are there versions for Mac and Linux users?

Alessandro
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Martel
post Jul 23 2011, 11:32
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If the application is simple enough (it runs under XP after all), you should be able to run it under Wine.


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Soap
post Jul 23 2011, 13:02
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QUOTE (_mē_ @ Jul 23 2011, 01:33) *

A sealed bench warrant is still a warrant and outside that fact (sealed) is no different than existing statues in most all western countries.


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spoon
post Jul 23 2011, 15:23
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Album art is not part of the 500 MB quota.

I will endeavor to put up a T&C and privacy statement ASAP


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