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Best way to rip bit-perfect sound on a small system
projecthome
post Apr 7 2009, 12:04
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Hi

I am planning the purchase of a new stereo audio system and need some help. Now, I would like this sound system to be small and as good sounding as possible (that includes bit perfect playback), have as few components and cables as possible, be silent (i.e. as few fans and mechanical parts as possible) and integrate with a portable player in some way. Gapless playback is a must.

What I have though about so far is using ADM AVI9.1 for speakers and amplification, connected to a Logitech Duo with an optical cable. The Duet streams music from a NetGear ReadyNAS.

Up til now I have ripped CDs on a BenQ 1640 with CDex (full paranoia) and encoded to FLAC. Ideally I'd like to avoid using CDs at all and purchase bit-perfect FLAC online, but that does not seem to be possible (yet). Since my PC is a big full-tower monster that needs to be replaced anyway (I need to upgrade the hardware to be able to do raw-converting and photo manipulation) I was wondering if there was a better way to get bit-perfect music.

So, what is really needed? Can I rip bit-perfect to FLAC on, say, an iMac? What about an Thinkpad x200 with an USB CD-RW/DVD-ROM of some sort? (Link to Lenovo's version below, other usb drives are perfectly viable options, I guess.) Or is the best way to stick my BenQ 1640 in e.g. a small Shuttle XPC?

For the portable player I am not hysterical about audio quality, but gapless is a must. I'd also like something that is integrated with a phone so I don't have to carry around too many gizmos. Ideally this hand held device would sport big storage so I could play my FLACs directly on the device, but I understand that this might not be possible as storage is limited and few, if any portable music players/phones support FLAC. I am therefore looking at keeping a mp3 (or ogg vorbis) version of my FLAC library for use on a phone (converting with Foobar2000).

Apple claims iPhone is gapless. Is this true? I've seen some debate around this.

Are there any alternatives to the iPhone?

http://www5.pc.ibm.com/no/products.nsf/�...epi=web_express
http://www.avihifi.co.uk/adm9.html
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/avi-adm-9-1-review
http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

Thanks for any help!

This is my first post. I am sorry if I am a bit confused as to which part of the forum to post to etc.
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odyssey
post Apr 7 2009, 13:19
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Use EAC, dBPowerAmp or anoter AccurateRip supported ripper. No need to go using paranoia-settings blindly. When you verify your rips against the results other got too you can be perfectly safe. Best of all is that you can usually use Burst ripping to speed up everything - And yes, you can use these programs on any PC running Windows.

Don't know about macs...

I haven't really come across a DAP that supports lame-encoded gapless files. Though I would like to know, if anyone know of one wink.gif

You might want to consider aac for portable instead. Not only does it compress better, but the format itself does not have the gapless limits of mp3. Then it would be up to the DAP to support gapless playback. I believe all iPods does that. My SE phone does not dry.gif

This post has been edited by odyssey: Apr 7 2009, 13:23


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projecthome
post Apr 7 2009, 14:10
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So, does that mean that the quality of the optical reader (e.g. CD-ROM) does not matter for bit-perfect ripping?

Thanks for the tip on aac. I'll use foobar2000 to convert my flacs to aac and then play them on an iphone.
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odyssey
post Apr 7 2009, 14:44
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QUOTE (projecthome @ Apr 7 2009, 15:10) *
So, does that mean that the quality of the optical reader (e.g. CD-ROM) does not matter for bit-perfect ripping?

Not at all... Bits are bits. If a CD-reader wouldn't perfectly read all bits it would do much use wink.gif

That said, there are of course different qualities of optical readers. Using burst with AccurateRip to rip scratched discs will quickly reveal if your reader are of a good quality. Compare the results with a different ripper to see if it makes a difference. Personally I'm happy with my two Lite-On drives, although there are probably better readers out there. I don't remember the drive Lenovo usually ships with, but my experience on my previous Z61t wasn't exceptional. My current HP has a LG drive which is actually quite good - Not perfect and I'm not using it over my Lite-On drives, but it did actually read some of my scratched discs better.


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oldtimer5
post Apr 7 2009, 15:10
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AccurateRip uses an external database to verify your read. Chances are your reader is fine. If not, you will know. The problem is usually surface quality. Then some readers will be better reading through a scratch. Lite-ons are one of the best unless go spend big bucks for a Plexor.

Still, knowing that you have a problem is the key. You can resurface and re acquire the failed tracks. Sometimes you really just need to listen and decide that is good enough because the scratch is too deep and you can lose the disk and still not have a perfect track. If I can hear the scratch I keep going, often ruining the CD without a perfect copy.
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Ron Jones
post Apr 7 2009, 16:20
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QUOTE (projecthome @ Apr 7 2009, 03:04) *
Apple claims iPhone is gapless. Is this true? I've seen some debate around this.

I can verify the iPhone 3G plays LAME-encoded and iTunes AAC-encoded gapless tracks correctly. Since I had some scattered issues with Nero AAC and gapless playback on the iPhone, I've switched to LAME (V5 profile) and haven't encountered any problems with gapless playback.
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greynol
post Apr 7 2009, 16:56
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QUOTE (odyssey @ Apr 7 2009, 06:44) *
QUOTE (projecthome @ Apr 7 2009, 15:10) *
So, does that mean that the quality of the optical reader (e.g. CD-ROM) does not matter for bit-perfect ripping?

Not at all... Bits are bits. If a CD-reader wouldn't perfectly read all bits it would do much use wink.gif

Bits may be bits, but some readers (GSA-H21N, perhaps others from this family of drives) don't always pass them along properly.

EDIT: I've included examples below for the Hitachi-LG 4164B.

This post has been edited by greynol: Apr 7 2009, 20:17


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odyssey
post Apr 7 2009, 19:26
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I haven't experienced any particular problem with my GSA-T50L. Maybe you can comment further on your specific problems?

I mentioned AccurateRip exactly to prevent such possible problem, although in my experience they are rare.

Moderation: Removed useless full quotation of previous post.

This post has been edited by greynol: Apr 7 2009, 19:27


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greynol
post Apr 7 2009, 19:34
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They aren't my specific problems:
http://www.digital-inn.de/exact-audio-copy...erent-crcs.html
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....c=54113&hl=

You cannot count on AccurateRip to catch issues caused by buggy drives, sorry.

This post has been edited by greynol: Apr 7 2009, 19:58


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odyssey
post Apr 7 2009, 22:14
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QUOTE (greynol @ Apr 7 2009, 20:34) *
You cannot count on AccurateRip to catch issues caused by buggy drives, sorry.

I think it's blatantly incorrect to say that you can't count on AccurateRip.

You could say that AccurateRip *may* provide a false-positive in very rare cases. I however think this is way offtopic as OP is asking for advice and not troubleshooting!

Edit: Just if OP isn't aware;
AccurateRip is a database that gathers peoples result from ripping (the checksum of each track). When you use it with a (to the DB) known disc, it is verified against the number of people (confidence count) that has got the exact same results as you on the same disc. That being said, if the confidence count is quite large, I would personally say that the rip is safe.

This post has been edited by odyssey: Apr 7 2009, 22:19


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greynol
post Apr 7 2009, 23:09
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QUOTE (odyssey @ Apr 7 2009, 14:14) *
I think it's blatantly incorrect to say that you can't count on AccurateRip.
You don't know what you're talking about. EDIT: While what I said not incorrect, let alone "blatantly incorrect," I apologize for being harsh.

QUOTE (odyssey @ Apr 7 2009, 14:14) *
You could say that AccurateRip *may* provide a false-positive in very rare cases. I however think this is way offtopic as OP is asking for advice and not troubleshooting!
Very rare cases? Do you have any evidence to make such an assessment?

The OP asked if all drives are capable of bit-perfect output, you said they are and I have given you two models (with backup support for one of them from two different users!) that aren't. Correcting your misinformation is not off-topic.

I stand by what I said.

This post has been edited by greynol: Apr 8 2009, 19:43
Reason for edit: Hoping not to feed any trolls.


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odyssey
post Apr 7 2009, 23:15
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I have ripped more than 2000 CD's with different drives over time. I have yet to come across a problem like you describe. Likewise, do YOU have evidence that so many drives out there are failing that AccurateRip should not be trusted? I believe that if that were true, AccurateRip wouldn't even be able to deliver such service with high confidence levels on most CD's.


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greynol
post Apr 7 2009, 23:20
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Are any of your drives one of the ones that I listed?

If so, did you rip each of those 2000 discs with that drive as well as with a drive that was not an LG/Hitachi with an offset correction of +102.

Again, I stand behind 100% of what I said.

This post has been edited by greynol: Apr 7 2009, 23:20


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odyssey
post Apr 7 2009, 23:24
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No, not all, but I have successfully crossripped several discs on both LG and Lite-On drives.

Instead of polluting an innocent thread like this with such more or less irrellevant information, I think you should create a thread (and sticky it!) containing all known problem-drives and a description of their problems. Such list would indeed be useful, especially since I've seen several threads with people requesting which drives they should look out for with the intention of ripping.

Then you just need to point to the sticky-thread with a note saying that you COULD eventually run into problems with certain drives.


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greynol
post Apr 7 2009, 23:36
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You don't seem to get it. The pollution began with your incorrect assumption that all drives are trustworthy.

That said, I think you're right: we've wasted enough time over this.


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gerwen
post Apr 9 2009, 15:52
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QUOTE (Ron Jones @ Apr 7 2009, 11:20) *
I can verify the iPhone 3G plays LAME-encoded and iTunes AAC-encoded gapless tracks correctly. Since I had some scattered issues with Nero AAC and gapless playback on the iPhone, I've switched to LAME (V5 profile) and haven't encountered any problems with gapless playback.

I've had the exact same experience on my iPod touch. (basically the same hardware and software as the iPhone.)
Problems with Nero aac gapless, flawless with Lame.
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Wolfgang McPhers...
post Jun 10 2009, 21:02
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i know this post is old, and this is a bit off the discussed topic, but i noticed that no one really answered the question about alternatives to the iphone, with more storage.
Archos makes internet media tablets which come up to 320 GB, and support flac, as well as having 802.11 b/g connectivity
Archos homepage
Cowon makes a portable media player which is very well designed, has support for memory cards, but is sole a music player, (but looks really good, it has one of the new AMOLED screens.) featured on their homepage
Cowon Homepage
hope that is of use to someone.
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krabapple
post Jun 11 2009, 00:14
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QUOTE (Wolfgang McPherson @ Jun 10 2009, 16:02) *
i know this post is old, and this is a bit off the discussed topic, but i noticed that no one really answered the question about alternatives to the iphone, with more storage.
Archos makes internet media tablets which come up to 320 GB, and support flac, as well as having 802.11 b/g connectivity
Archos homepage
Cowon makes a portable media player which is very well designed, has support for memory cards, but is sole a music player, (but looks really good, it has one of the new AMOLED screens.) featured on their homepage
Cowon Homepage
hope that is of use to someone.



Damn, I'd love to get me one of those 320GB Archos tablets...but $550 is kinda steep. And no digital audio output (except perhaps USB, whihc my AVR can take...)
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cyberdux
post Jun 11 2009, 05:04
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I messed up with my first post - sorry. Somehow all I did was quote the original.

I have ripped 100's of CD's securely with dbpoweramp/nero encoder and can tell you that these files play flawlessly (including gapless) on my ipod 5g video.

This post has been edited by cyberdux: Jun 11 2009, 05:09
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