Recommended Ogg encoder Options

[steelglam]

Hello,

I'm a newbie to the ogg vorbis world, and I am trying to figure out which is the best encoder at the moment. I have an HP Pavilion laptop with an Intel Core i5-2430M processor, and running a 64-bit version of Windows 7. I am also using the newest version of Exact Audio Copy to rip CDs.

I've been using LAME 3.99.5, libsndfile 1.0.25 64bit to encode MP3s from CDs, but I'd like to try my hands at Ogg Vorbis. I read the Hydrogenaudio wiki on using EAC and Ogg Vorbis, but it seems a bit outdated, since I notice that RareWares has newer versions of the encoder posted.

My primary concern is sound quality, followed by file size, and then lastly encoding speed. I notice three different recent encoders on the RareWares site: Oggenc2.87 using libVorbis v1.3.3, Oggenc2.87 using aoTuVb6.03, and Oggenc2.87 using aoTuVb6.03 (Lancer Builds). But I can't seem to figure out the differences between them in terms of sound quality and file size.

Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[eahm]

Why do you want to switch to Ogg Vorbis NOW instead of going AAC or even wait for Opus?

I like "Oggenc2.87 using aoTuVb6.03 (Lancer Builds) - SSE3 Optimized x64 Only (1797kB)" http://www.rarewares.org/ogg-oggenc.php#oggenc-aotuv

This post has been edited by eahm: Sep 17 2012, 16:53

[steelglam]

Why do you want to switch to Ogg Vorbis NOW instead of going AAC or even waiting for Opus?

Btw, I use "Oggenc2.87 using aoTuVb6.03 (Lancer Builds) - SSE3 Optimized x64 Only (1797kB)" http://www.rarewares.org/ogg-oggenc.php#oggenc-aotuv

I don't know what AAC and OPUS are. I'm kind of a neanderthal when it comes to these sorts of things. I heard some Ogg Vorbis files from my buddy and they sounded better than my MP3's, so I thought I'd switch. I'm using a Rockboxed Sansa Clip+.

So, AAC and OPUS are better than both Ogg Vorbis and MP3, both in terms of sound and size?

This post has been edited by steelglam: Sep 17 2012, 17:08

[pdq]

Sansa Clip+ will play FLAC files. Have you considered that option?

Any reasonably high bitrate MP3 file (properly created) should be indistinguishable from an ogg vorbis encode. Are you sure there wasn't something else going on when you compared?

[steelglam]

Sansa Clip+ will play FLAC files. Have you considered that option?

Any reasonably high bitrate MP3 file (properly created) should be indistinguishable from an ogg vorbis encode. Are you sure there wasn't something else going on when you compared?

I've got 4000+ songs on my Clip. FLAC isn't an option...too big.

I don't think there was anything else going on. I tried it using his settings on EAC, Ogg Vorbis q6. But he uses an old "lancer" version (from 2006) of the Ogg encoder, he noted he hasn't updated to anything newer. Anyhow...I ripped about 10 albums at this setting and loaded them on my Clip. I then compared them to the 320kbps MP3's (of the same albums) already on my player, and I preferred the Ogg files. To my ears, the Ogg files were less harsh, less brittle, fuller and more natural sounding, and had fewer artifacts.

I figured that since there were newer versions of the Ogg encoder out, that they would be even better. But I'm not sure which is best.

This post has been edited by steelglam: Sep 17 2012, 17:22

[pdq]

You need to be careful of unsupported claims of audible quality, else you may be in violation of TOS #8.

Granted you will get less than 1000 songs in FLAC, but do you really need so many?

[edwardar]

Unless things have changed lately, I believe using Ogg Vorbis on the Sansa clip and fuze in rockbox consumes less battery power than MP3 and AAC. This is a priority for me. The fact that Ogg Vorbis achieves transparency at lower bitrates than MP3 for me is a bonus.

I also use the version eahm refers to (though I use the x86 version).

[skamp]

Granted you will get less than 1000 songs in FLAC, but do you really need so many?

I do. Please get off my lawn.

Unless things have changed lately, I believe using Ogg Vorbis on the Sansa clip and fuze in rockbox consumes less battery power than MP3 and AAC. This is a priority for me.

Musepack uses even less power.

This post has been edited by skamp: Sep 17 2012, 17:30

[steelglam]

You need to be careful of unsupported claims of audible quality, else you may be in violation of TOS #8.

Granted you will get less than 1000 songs in FLAC, but do you really need so many?

Sorry, I didn't realize that part of the terms of service. Well, I'll retract my statement then. Let's just say that I'd like to use Ogg.

Yes, I want that many songs on my player. I have FLAC files for home use, but the lossy formats are fine for my portable player...and with that in mind, I'm looking for the best quality vs. size tradeoff. Right now I'm using MP3 320, but I'm not completely satisfied with it. So, I thought I'd make the change to Ogg, since I liked what I heard. For the albums that I already have ripped in FLAC, I can transcode the FLAC files to Ogg using Foobar2000. For those that I have not yet ripped, I can use EAC to encode to Ogg on the fly.

This post has been edited by steelglam: Sep 17 2012, 17:38

[steelglam]

Unless things have changed lately, I believe using Ogg Vorbis on the Sansa clip and fuze in rockbox consumes less battery power than MP3 and AAC. This is a priority for me. The fact that Ogg Vorbis achieves transparency at lower bitrates than MP3 for me is a bonus.

I also use the version eahm refers to (though I use the x86 version).

Thanks, I'll try that one (the x64 version). It was the one that I was eyeing, frankly.

[eahm]

Granted you will get less than 1000 songs in FLAC, but do you really need so many?

I will never understand these questions. He can use 100000 files for what I care.

Unless things have changed lately, I believe using Ogg Vorbis on the Sansa clip and fuze in rockbox consumes less battery power than MP3 and AAC. This is a priority for me. The fact that Ogg Vorbis achieves transparency at lower bitrates than MP3 for me is a bonus.

I also use the version eahm refers to (though I use the x86 version).

Actually, MP3 gives better battery life than Ogg Vorbis and AAC even better than Ogg Vorbis. I can't find the article now because I am working but I'm sure it's one of the first links on Google.

Remember the Sansa has 8000 file limit, it's doesn't work over 8000.

Also, MP3 achieve transparency around 192kbps, Ogg Vorbis around 160kbps, AAC even less (let's say 128kbps) and Opus is supposed to achieve it at even less bitrates (http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Transparency) but really, AAC is fenomenal and it's becoming the new widely used lossy format, Apple also uses it with iTunes. If you use True VBR q63 you will have very small transparent files with the average of 135kbps. You will fit 4000 AAC files in ~16GB.

This post has been edited by eahm: Sep 17 2012, 19:43

[lvqcl]

Actually, MP3 gives better battery life than Ogg Vorbis and AAC even better than Ogg Vorbis. I can't find the article now because I am working but I'm sure it's one of the first links on Google.

OP uses Rockbox, so: "performance comparisons of various codecs in Rockbox on arm9e (specifically a Sansa Clipv2)"

[AliceWonder]

I'd like to comment on this.

The reason I like Ogg Vorbis is patents.

At least in the United States (where I live) both MP3 and AAC are covered by patents and that means even if I have permission to share the file on my web site or stream it over internet radio, since patented methods were used to compress the files for broadcast (even though website and internet radio are technically unicast, they are both considered broadcast for legal purposes) the patents need to be licensed.

MP3 licensing says they don't care if you gross less than 100K/yr and I'm not sure what AAC licensing says, but with vorbis it isn't ever even an issue.

Maybe Opus is worth using in the future, but for me anyway right now Vorbis works out of the box on my Linux installs and most of my web browsers.

For encoding I use aoTuV 6.0.3b fork of libvorbis and the oggenc that is part of standard vorbis-tools from xiph.org.

I use q1 for web sites and portable player and I use q5 for desktop pc.

The only time I ever use AAC is when encoding audio for a h.264/AVC video, in which case I use ffmpeg's AAC encoder which sucks but I don't own nero so ... I'll be using webm for all video soon so soon I won't even be using AAC there (but I rarely do video encoding anyway).

The only time I ever use MP3 is for my iPod and for html5 audio fallback for Safari and IE which do not natively support Ogg Vorbis. There I use lame V7 for web and V2 for iPod (which I rarely use, but I do when I want to look hipster).

This post has been edited by AliceWonder: Sep 25 2012, 01:47

[saratoga]

Actually, MP3 gives better battery life than Ogg Vorbis and AAC even better than Ogg Vorbis. I can't find the article now because I am working but I'm sure it's one of the first links on Google.

OP uses Rockbox, so: "performance comparisons of various codecs in Rockbox on arm9e (specifically a Sansa Clipv2)"

I'm actually kind of curious what the link was hes thinking of since the Clip/Clip+ don't even support AAC without Rockbox.

[Oggie-Ben-Doggie]

Ogg Vorbis is my preferred format for portable listening at the moment. I use the following settings:

oggenc --quality 6 --advanced-encode-option impulse_noisetune=-6

[spicymeatball77]

Why do you want to switch to Ogg Vorbis NOW instead of going AAC or even wait for Opus?

I don't understand what you mean here. Vorbis is actively being developed isn't it?