-V n (in 3.95.1), Presets, bitrates and lowpass of V value Options

[Vietwoojagig]

Hi,

CODE

Switch            equals               target  Y  b  lowpass resample
-V 0            = --preset extreme       240     128  19500
-V 0 --vbr-new  = --preset fast extreme  240     128  19500
-V 1                                     210     128  19000
-V 1 --vbr-new                           210     128  19000
-V 2            = --preset standard      190     128  19000
-V 2 --vbr-new  = --preset fast standard    190     128  19000
-V 3                                     175   1      18000
-V 3 --vbr-new                           175   1      18000
-V 4            = --preset medium        165   1      18000
-V 4 --vbr-new  = --preset fast medium   165   1      18000
-V 5                                     130   1      17000
-V 5 --vbr-new                           130   1      17000
-V 6                                     115   1      16000
-V 6 --vbr-new                           115   1      16000
-V 7                                     100   1      14900   32000
-V 7 --vbr-new                           100   1      14900   32000
-V 8                                      85   1      12500   32000
-V 8 - vbr-new                            85   1      12500   32000
-V 9                                      65   1      10000   24000
-V 9 - vbr-new                            65   1      10000   24000

Questions:
1. Is it save to use the -V switches, with no corresponding preset (especially V 1 / V3)?
2. When is it more usefull, to use abr rather than -V n (e.g. --preset 120 better than -V 5)?
3. Are the displayed target average bitrates ok (+/- 10 kbps)?

Thanks

Edit: changed with Gabriel's suggestions. Added:-Y, -b, --lowpass, --resample
Edit: modified -b to fit with 3.96

[Gabriel]

Nice layout.

3. Are the displayed target average bitrates ok (+/- 10 kbps)?

I'd say:
V2 - 190
V3 - 175
V4 - 165
V5 - 130

[Dologan]

Is --r3mix still remapped to -V3 --vbr-new in 3.96 final?

[Gabriel]

Is --r3mix still remapped to -V3 --vbr-new in 3.96 final?

Yes

[Schinkentoni]

I just want to pick up the first question of Vietwoojagig:

Is it save to use the -V switches, with no corresponding preset (especially V 1 / V3)?

[2Bdecided]

The word you're looking for is safe, not save!

safe=not dangerous
save=keep or store

Don't flame me - I'm used to people with English as a second language at work getting irritated if I don't help them. Accepting that, with any language other than English I'm beyond help myself, so any help I give certainly isn't meant as criticism!

Sorry I can't answer the actual question! I guess that V1 can't be worse than V2, and V3 can't be worse than V4, so they're worth a try.

Cheers,
David.

[Vietwoojagig]

The word you're looking for is safe, not save!

safe=not dangerous
save=keep or store

Don't flame me - I'm used to people with English as a second language at work getting irritated if I don't help them. Accepting that, with any language other than English I'm beyond help myself, so any help I give certainly isn't meant as criticism!

Oh dear, shame on me. Of course I know the difference between save and safe. But sometimes I don't see the mistakes, even if you would nail them on my head.

[Halcyon]

Vietwoojagig,

don't worry. It's just a sign of your lingual mind starting to think phonetically. It's just transitioning from one set of phonemic transcription to another.

I make mistakes like that all the time. I wrote much better English when I knew and used it much less.

These days I'm bi-lingually handicapped. Sometimes I can't express myself properly in my native tongue (or my second native tongue), but English works out ok. Then again, often I think in Finnish and my English comes out really broken.

So, you're actually just advancing

And compared to the average American... don't even get me started

As for your questions, I don't think there is enough data to conclude 1) yet (at least I haven't found the answer). Well, I'm using -V switches on 3.96, based on some preliminary findings, but no conclusive data is available yet (?).

As for 2) and 3) I'm also interested. Perhaps the developers are the best ones to answer this, if they have time/interest.

cheers,
halcyon

PS It's an odd thing with English speaking natives: they complain when you try to speak their language and they complain when you don't. Nothing's ever good enough. And my God, what happens if you err on the side of correcting their English? A war breaks out, that's what happens ;-D

This post has been edited by Halcyon: May 5 2004, 14:24

[Dologan]

Is --r3mix still remapped to -V3 --vbr-new in 3.96 final?

Yes

Sorry I can't answer the actual question! I guess that V1 can't be worse than V2, and V3 can't be worse than V4, so they're worth a try.

Well, considering the outdated nature of --r3mix and --preset medium being more recent and based off the proven --aps, I wouldn't be too surprised if -V4 (--vbr-any) could actually be better than -V3 --vbr-new, despite the lower bitrate. The question would be whether -V3 (--vbr-old) has more to do with --r3mix or with --aps -Y?

[Vietwoojagig]

Well, considering the outdated nature of --r3mix and --preset medium being more recent and based off the proven --aps, I wouldn't be too surprised if -V4 (--vbr-any) could actually be better than -V3 --vbr-new, despite the lower bitrate. The question would be whether -V3 (--vbr-old) has more to do with --r3mix or with --aps -Y?

Only the name "--r3mix" is mapped to"-V3" and not "-V3" with the outdated code. So I'm quite sure that that V0 > V1 > V2 > V3 > V4 > ... > V9.

As I understand it, the names "r3mix", "preset medium", "preset standard", "preset extreme" are only mapped to V-switches for compatibilty reasons.

In future, I will only use the V-switches, knowing, that V2 is the setting for transparency.

[Dologan]

Only the name "--r3mix" is mapped to"-V3" and not "-V3" with the outdated code. So I'm quite sure that that  V0 > V1 > V2 > V3 > V4 > ... > V9.

As I understand it, the names "r3mix", "preset medium", "preset standard", "preset extreme" are only mapped to V-switches for compatibilty reasons.

From what I had understood, the -Vx now equal the --preset they are mapped with. So -V2 is the same as --preset standard and, under the same logic, -V3 --vbr-new would be --r3mix. Now you are telling me then that --r3mix is no longer --r3mix, but -V3 --vbr-new (whatever that is). Is this right? Has --r3mix been reduced to merely a symbolic link pointing to something entirely different?

[Vietwoojagig]

From what I had understood, the -Vx now equal the --preset they are mapped with. So -V2 is the same as --preset standard and, under the same logic, -V3 --vbr-new would be --r3mix. Now you are telling me then that --r3mix is no longer --r3mix, but -V3 --vbr-new (whatever that is). Is this right? Has --r3mix been reduced to merely a symbolic link pointing to something entirely different?

Yes

[Tomb]

PS It's an odd thing with English speaking natives: they complain when you try to speak their language and they complain when you don't. Nothing's ever good enough. And my God, what happens if you err on the side of correcting their English? A war breaks out, that's what happens ;-D

I say by jove. Steady on old boy, what. Correcting the Queens - now that would be damn foolish move old bean. Spiffing what and pass the Pimms and Gordons.

PS. Yes I am English and even worse, a Cockney

Talk Cockney here or here!

[Dologan]

From what I had understood, the -Vx now equal the --preset they are mapped with. So -V2 is the same as --preset standard and, under the same logic, -V3 --vbr-new would be --r3mix. Now you are telling me then that --r3mix is no longer --r3mix, but -V3 --vbr-new (whatever that is). Is this right? Has --r3mix been reduced to merely a symbolic link pointing to something entirely different?

Yes

Hmm... Interesting.
Gabriel, could you please confirm this? Or Vietwoojagig, could you show me where you know this from? Thank you.

[Gabriel]

Gabriel, could you please confirm this?

Yes

[Jebus]

Wow, that is really interesting. So the --r3mix tunings are really gone now (finally!) and all that remains is the name. This is truely significant!

[Squeller]

2. When is it more usefull, to use abr rather than -V n (e.g. --preset 120 better than -V 5)?

I'd be interested in the answer to this question, too. No one has an idea?

[shafff]

-V2 (lame 3.95.1) gives me 141kbps on film track (pianist, russian translation). Double speed on 2.4 ghz
i'll do -V4 (lame 3.97alpha) this week-end on english track (in hope that picture quality will be better; using xvid).

[westgroveg]

Does LAME 3.96, -V2/--preset standard still use -b 128?

[Vietwoojagig]

Does LAME 3.96, -V2/--preset standard still use -b 128?

Yes. -b 96 did not work on some samples as desired.

[Gabriel]

Regarding "target bitrates" related to -V x, I'd like to point to this:
http://lame.sourceforge.net/lame_ui_example.html

In this sample UI, you can visually see the usual bitrate range of the different -V x levels

[384kbps]

I just want to pick up the first question of Vietwoojagig:

Is it save to use the -V switches, with no corresponding preset (especially V 1 / V3)?

I have learned till now the difference between 'save' and 'safe' , but i still can't see here any clear answer on the question above, sorry.

So if I use "Lame.exe -V1 input.wav output.mp3"...
- ...will that produce smaller preset extreme mp3 files by using the 'extreme' maskings/shapings/modells but only a bit more aggressive?
- ...or will that produce bigger preset standard mp3 files by using the maskings/shapings/modells of preset standard but only a bit more gentle?
- ...or will '-V1' and '-V3' work beyond every well-tested preset?

Thanks for my enlightenment!

This post has been edited by 384kbps: Aug 25 2004, 20:05

[Gabriel]

-V1 is between -V0 and -V2.
I do not know what to say more: it is not -V0 neither -V2, just -V1

[Pio2001]

...so -V1 includes the alt-preset code level tunings, but with a bitrate wetween standard and extreme.

I've removed the --r3mix line, since it doesn't mean --r3mix anyway.

[GeSomeone]

So the --r3mix tunings are really gone now (finally!) and all that remains is the name. This is truly significant!

No, there were no r3mix tunings. It was just a shortcut for a long string of command-line options that was advocated by some until it was beaten by (alt) preset standard.

sorry to reply to such old message