HDCD Decoder, Process or play lossless rips of your HDCDs Options

[krabapple]

Wow, thanks a ton for creating this plugin, I've wondered for years about what, if any, benefit HDCD discs really have.

All I can say is that the first couple of HDCD's I've played back have sounded noticeable cleaner and more dynamic.

Mastering/level differences perhaps? if not expectation bias?

Because for sure, not all HDCDs even use 'peak extension' (which gives them more 'dynamics' than their undecoded versions).

However, I have tried converting them with the HDCD decoder DSP active, replaygain disabled, and the resulting files have been 16-bit. They are not the same as the source files, as a replaygain scan shows a much lower album gain in both cases. I'm wondering why the files are showing up as 16-bit, shouldn't they be 20-bit (or padded to 24-bit)?

With HDCD decoding, HDCD tracks often are 'normalized' down in level, by as much as -6dB. So the replaygain gain (typically a negative gain, i.e., reduction) is less drastic.

For some HDCDs, the *only* detectable change with hdcd.exe decoding is that the track level has been reduced compared to nondecoded. This is equivalent to just turning down the playback volume.

This post has been edited by krabapple: Mar 28 2010, 08:58

[lmancino]

During a CD ripping (Of course the HDCD Plugin is the only DSP active) I am experiencing the silencing of the first 20 second of the tracks of the CD. If the control "Don't reset DSP between Tracks" is checked this problem affects only the first track, otherwise all the tracks have the first 20 second silenced.

The output format selected is .wav and the bit depth is 24 bit.

Thanks

Leonardo

This post has been edited by lmancino: Apr 5 2010, 10:49

[kode54]

Which CD is this, or is it happening with all albums?

[lmancino]

The CD is 'TNT' by Tortoise but after your inquiry I also tried 'Sailing to Philadelphia' by Mark Knopfler with same result.
The ripping without HDCD module was regular. The playing with or without HDCD module was regular. In ripping and playing, with HDCD module active, I received the msg 'HDCD detected' in the console.
I also tried, with same results
- both my driver (LiteOn SOHW-832S and Hitachi GD7000) with the correct offset (12 for LiteOn and 667 for Hitachi) as detected in the inquiry in Data Base
- to disinstall additional plugin (Burninate, UPNP and DVDA) to verify possible conflicts
- all the driving setup for the security (Disabled, Standard and Paranoid)
- Full speed and Limit speed

The PC processor is an Athlon XP2400 and the ram is 2GB. The setup is optimized with only 32 Task active without any antivirus active or installed
The Foobar2000 version is 1.0.1

Leonardo

This post has been edited by lmancino: Apr 6 2010, 10:53

[kode54]

Version 1.3 uploaded. I changed the buffering mechanism used to prevent the decoder from applying its volume halving effect to non-HDCD material, which fixes CD ripping.

[AleXH]

It only reports HDCD detected for the first packet it detects in the stream when the DSP is initialized, or after some non-HDCD data is passed through the DSP. It does not report on every automatic track change.

v1.3

But... If played 1st HDCD track, after 2nd HDCD track and seek back by 5-10 sec then hear different. Why?

May be HDCD don't detected on every automatic track change?

P.S. I'm sorry for my bad English, I speak Russian.

This post has been edited by AleXH: Apr 15 2010, 06:12

[CarlosMC]

I'm using hdcd 1.3 with foobar 1.0.2.1 under win7x64 and ds (wasapi doesn't work) on an alc660 chip; I disabled all other dsps and rg and I can't get any such 'hdcd detected' message someone mentioned, regardless. I tried all my hdcd rips (King Crimson, ELP, Yes - all in original 16 bit flac or ape cd image) but nada - all I can notice is the distinct background noise of unprocessed hdcds. :/

What am I doing wrong/missing?

Tx.

This post has been edited by CarlosMC: Apr 18 2010, 23:23

[Zorlac]

I'm using hdcd 1.3 with foobar 1.0.2.1 under win7x64 and ds (wasapi doesn't work) on an alc660 chip; I disabled all other dsps and rg and I can't get any such 'hdcd detected' message someone mentioned, regardless. I tried all my hdcd rips (King Crimson, ELP, Yes - all in original 16 bit flac or ape cd image) but nada - all I can notice is the distinct background noise of unprocessed hdcds. :/

What am I doing wrong/missing?

Tx.

I cant get mine to work either. My HDCD rips are .wav and Foobar reports them as 2116kbps | 44100 Hz | 16bit | stereo | PCM, but the console does not say anything about HDCD detected.

Im using Foobar 1.0.2.1, WASAPI 2.1, HDCD 1.3, Windows 7 x64 w/Sound Blaster Titanium SPDIF optical out in Audio Creation Bit Perfect output mode. 24bit set in Foobar and Windows.

Any ideas?

[CarlosMC]

Ok, so I reinstalled and now I'm getting hdcd detected.

Btw, shouldn't 'HDCD detected' show in the status bar?

[Zorlac]

Ok, so I reinstalled and now I'm getting hdcd detected.

Btw, shouldn't 'HDCD detected' show in the status bar?

What did you re-install?

[Case]

My HDCD rips are .wav and Foobar reports them as 2116kbps | 44100 Hz | 16bit | stereo | PCM

Something doesn't add up with the data you provided. 2116(.8) kbps is bitrate for 24 bit audio. That would indicate the rips are already HDCD decoded. If foobar shows you the data only has 16 bits something is wrong with the WAVs.

[macross7ra]

according to "any 16-bit PCM stream passed through it, resulting in 20-bit PCM"
So do I need to set the Playback output format to 24bits to encapsulate resulting 20-bits PCM??

thank you

[HeresJohnny]

Yes, it only works with ReplayGain disabled, since ReplayGain is applied to the signal before DSP processing, and there is currently no way to query what the current ReplayGain scale level is.

I propose a change in the foobar2000 structure, where replaygain would be taken out of the playback tab and put into a separate plugin so it can be included in a DSP chain. All post-processing before output should be done within the DSP, anyway, I don't see a reason why replaygain would be an exception. Then again, I'm no programmer, maybe other people know more.

This change would also take care of the HDCD problem because HDCD would be included at the top of the DSP chain whereas replaygain would be included at the end.

This post has been edited by HeresJohnny: May 1 2010, 12:57

[kode54]

I propose a change in the foobar2000 structure, where replaygain would be taken out of the playback tab and put into a separate plugin so it can be included in a DSP chain.

This change would also require all components which currently process input to include this DSP in their processing chain for any ReplayGain correction to be applied to their output.

[HeresJohnny]

This change would also require all components which currently process input to include this DSP in their processing chain for any ReplayGain correction to be applied to their output.

Agreed, and I think that's about the same amount of work than going to properties and selecting the replaygain modes. Foobar2000 already has a history of imposing beneficial changes, wouldn't say that this could be one of them?

[CarlosMC]

Ok, so I reinstalled and now I'm getting hdcd detected.

Btw, shouldn't 'HDCD detected' show in the status bar?

What did you re-install?

Foobar - removed it all and reinstalled. Don't know if it was that, but it's working, now, although not every song is detected, every time - i.e.: song 1 is, song 2 is not, song 3 is, but if I go back to 2, it is, now...

[kode54]

It doesn't report every track change, only the first time it encounters HDCD per instance. This will be reset any time you manually change tracks.

[AleXH]

It doesn't report every track change, only the first time it encounters HDCD per instance. This will be reset any time you manually change tracks.

How I say above - sound change when seek back 2-nd played HDCD track, this equivalent to HDCD ON.

--------------------------------------------------
TEST

HARDWARE:
no importance

SOFTWARE:
WinXP SP2
Foobar2k 1.0.3

fb2k DSP:
HDCD decoder 1.3
Winamp DSP Bridge 1.4.5 [DFX 6.4]
SoX Resampler 0.5.4.1 [44.1->48kHz]

OUT:
Kernel Streaming

Playlist:
1. HDCD Track
2. HDCD Track

Action:
1. Press play 1-st track
2. Press backward

Result: sound not change

Action:
1. Press play 1-st track
2. Wait before foobar play 2-nd track more 15-20 sec
3. Press backward

Result: sound change, and equivalented without HDCD
--------------------------------------------------------------

You comments?

This post has been edited by AleXH: May 11 2010, 05:02

[AleXH]

Strange... Don't can edit my last post.

Result: sound change, and equivalented without HDCD

Write wrong - rightly: sound change, and equivalented with HDCD. Before backward sound was without HDCD.

[Honeybadger]

Hey guys!

I am running 1.0.3 of foobar2000 and the lastest version of the HDCD plugin.

I am using a reference recordings disk and confirmed it lights up the HDCD indicator in Mediaplayer11 so I know the Rom and PC work at detecting the extra bit.

THere is no indicator in Foobar(where should it show HDCD?) and it still reports 16bit when playing directly off the HDCD. the HDCD plugin is the only plugin I have enabled in DSPs.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

[kode54]

HDCD support is indicated by a message in the console. Oh, and files will never report as anything other than 16 bit, even if they are decoded properly. You have to set your output to 24 bit or greater manually.

[a3aan]

Indeed not all HDCDs seems to be leading to a 'HDCD detected' log entry. For example Midnite Vultures of Beck. All tracks have (according to hdcd.exe) only transient filter intermittently enabled (no peak and no gain).

On the other hand, Mutations by Beck, which hasn't a single HDCD feature enabled with the first 10 tracks, does report HDCD detected when playing the first track.

[Honeybadger]

HDCD support is indicated by a message in the console. Oh, and files will never report as anything other than 16 bit, even if they are decoded properly. You have to set your output to 24 bit or greater manually.

Ok, I do have it set to 24bit, where do I see this console and/or its message?

[herojoker]

View > Console

[Cheung]

HDCD support is indicated by a message in the console. Oh, and files will never report as anything other than 16 bit, even if they are decoded properly. You have to set your output to 24 bit or greater manually.

I don't have a way to select an output bit rate. Is it because my sound card is a Creative SB X-FI?
The only modifiable options I have when I go to Preferences / Playback / Output are:

Speakers (Creative SB X-FI) [THIS IS THE ONE IT DEFAULTED TO]
Null Output
Primary Sound Driver
SPDIF Out (Creative SB X-FI)

Then underneath that is a slider bar for Buffer Length

Underneath all the above I have a field box
that is labled Output data format but it is greyed out (can't enter anything in it)

Underneath that inacessible field box it says:
Output data format will be chosen automatically for the selected device.

How can I tell what my output bit-rate is?

This post has been edited by Cheung: Jun 26 2010, 15:25