Converter - Dither Options

[zenful74]

Has the dither option been removed from v1.1? I can't find it in the Converter Output settings. Need to use it for 24 to 16 bit conversions.

[lvqcl]

"Output format" settings.

[zenful74]

Thanks, found it. Too bad that no option to set different types of dither, like triangle dither.

[lvqcl]

IIRC it's something between RPDF and TPDF dither. With noise-shaping (called "ATH", "shibata", etc.)

[zenful74]

The option is not there for mp3 output format. Can't use it when going from 24 bit flacs to 16 bit mp3. The old version (1.0.3) didn't have this problem.

[Yirkha]

It's not a problem because MP3 files don't have bit depth.

[zenful74]

mp3 have a bit depth of 16. if any file (mp3 or not) didn't have a bit depth, then it couldn't be a file because it would have zero bits. because the dither option was reconfigured in the new release, the option to convert directly to mp3 from lossless 24 bit sources without the chance of harmonic distortions from the quantization process is no longer possible. the ability to convert and bypass the wav stage or other intermediate stage is what made the program more useful than others before this change.

[herojoker]

@zenful74: Wikipedia says:

Technically speaking, bit depth is only meaningful when applied to pure PCM devices. Non-PCM formats, such as DSD or lossy compression systems like MP3, have bit depths that are not defined in the same sense as PCM. This is particularly true for lossy audio compression, where bits are allocated to other types of information, and the bits actually allocated to individual samples are allowed to fluctuate within the constraints imposed by the allocation algorithm.

Please also have a look at the question on this page.

This post has been edited by herojoker: Oct 6 2010, 10:23

[lvqcl]

MP3 format doesn't store values of separate samples and it doesn't have bit depth.

[shakey_snake]

This is why the option was removed.

[db1989]

I don’t take join date as a guarantee of one’s experience, but you shouldn’t attempt to question senior members such as Yirkha, if these are anything to go by:

mp3 have a bit depth of 16. if any file (mp3 or not) didn't have a bit depth, then it couldn't be a file because it would have zero bits.

because the dither option was reconfigured in the new release, the option to convert directly to mp3 from lossless 24 bit sources without the chance of harmonic distortions from the quantization process is no longer possible.

the ability to convert and bypass the wav stage or other intermediate stage is what made the program more useful than others before this change.

The “wav stage”, i.e. decompression to PCM and re-encoding is never bypassed, just hidden by the front-end.

[zenful74]

@zenful74: Wikipedia says:

Technically speaking, bit depth is only meaningful when applied to pure PCM devices. Non-PCM formats, such as DSD or lossy compression systems like MP3, have bit depths that are not defined in the same sense as PCM. This is particularly true for lossy audio compression, where bits are allocated to other types of information, and the bits actually allocated to individual samples are allowed to fluctuate within the constraints imposed by the allocation algorithm.

Please also have a look at the question on this page.

The algorithm has options which control how the bits are allocated, such as this command line ...

-S --noreplaygain --strictly-enforce-ISO -q 0 -b 320 -m j --resample 48 - %d

This will not allow the bits to fluctuate within individual samples.

Using dither when downsampling bit depth to any format allows the output (lossy or lossless) to be completely free of any harmonic distortions which are intrinsic to the downsampling/quantization process. This statement is not addressed by any of the replies.

[lvqcl]

-S --noreplaygain --strictly-enforce-ISO -q 0 -b 320 -m j --resample 48 - %d

This will not allow the bits to fluctuate within individual samples.

This is siply not true.

Also, foobar2000 sends 24-bit LPCM data to lame.exe.