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What is so special about Vinyls? :), Help a student out with her project?
halb27
post Nov 5 2013, 09:47
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It was said in several posts, and my opinion too is that the ritual about it (or call it a series of well-defined steps of affordable effort) together with the properties of this physical medium is the major thing that makes vinyl attractive to many listeners.

I am personally missing something similar in our modern internet world: going to a LP/CD store finding out what's new and might please me. Today all this is just a fingertip away in the net (including the buying process). I feel like this in a much more general way. When finding information about technical stuff (photo, electronics, hifi in my case) formerly I went to a book store with a good selection of corresponding magazines, had a glance at them and eventually bought some. Today all this information can be found much easilier and earlier on the net.
But somehow my life has become a bit poorer.

So I can understand the positive feelings towards vinyl very well (though I don't practice it because I rarely like all the tracks of an album that's why even in the good old days of vinyl I produced extracts on a tape recorder and listened to that).


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cliveb
post Nov 5 2013, 10:10
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QUOTE (mzil @ Nov 4 2013, 23:30) *
My understanding is the original "long box" retail package, 12 inches long, was concocted to add bulk as a shoplifting deterrent [not as easy to stuff them in a pants pocket, I guess], yet added only minimal weight.

Interesting. I had always been led to believe that the long boxes were introduced due to the lobbying power of the companies that made LP covers. Their business was cardboard based, and they could see it disappearing. So they put pressure on the music industry to add these superfluous bits of packaging. Long boxes were not used in the UK - we just had jewel cases in racks. Presumably the cardboard companies didn't have the same influence over here.
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2Bdecided
post Nov 5 2013, 11:04
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QUOTE (halb27 @ Nov 5 2013, 09:47) *
I am personally missing something similar in our modern internet world: going to a LP/CD store finding out what's new and might please me. Today all this is just a fingertip away in the net (including the buying process). I feel like this in a much more general way. When finding information about technical stuff (photo, electronics, hifi in my case) formerly I went to a book store with a good selection of corresponding magazines, had a glance at them and eventually bought some. Today all this information can be found much easilier and earlier on the net.
But somehow my life has become a bit poorer.
Really? I'm managing to become a grumpy old man in many respects, but the ease of access to information and discussion (and media) on the internet is a joy. I wouldn't want to go back.

QUOTE (cliveb @ Nov 5 2013, 10:10) *
Long boxes were not used in the UK - we just had jewel cases in racks. Presumably the cardboard companies didn't have the same influence over here.
One CD single I bought came in one, and I wondered what on earth to do with it. I don't like throwing things away, so I stuck it on my bedroom wall. It seemed a bit pointless though.

I've never been that bothered about cover art, but if you want a nice full-screen cover art display on your new 4k TV, you're going to need vinyl to scan it from. Scans from CD cases aren't good enough. Even when people share them at 2500x2500 they're blurry because the resolution isn't there on the original.

Cheers,
David.
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halb27
post Nov 5 2013, 11:44
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QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 5 2013, 12:04) *
QUOTE (halb27 @ Nov 5 2013, 09:47) *
...But somehow my life has become a bit poorer.
Really? I'm managing to become a grumpy old man in many respects, but the ease of access to information and discussion (and media) on the internet is a joy. I wouldn't want to go back.

Yes, I don't want to go back either. We can't turn back time. Nevertheless I feel like being poorer in some respect. Shopping with my wife has changed a lot for me just because of this. Women always see and buy things which are interesting to them. Men usually need a lot less new clothing, shoes, living room accessories etc., but in those good old days I also had interesting things to look for when in town. This has changed a lot.

This post has been edited by halb27: Nov 5 2013, 11:45


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cliveb
post Nov 5 2013, 13:31
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QUOTE (halb27 @ Nov 5 2013, 10:44) *
Shopping with my wife has changed a lot for me just because of this.

Please don't tell me you enjoy shopping with your wife ohmy.gif
For most men it's purgatory.

How Men and Women go Shopping
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halb27
post Nov 5 2013, 13:38
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Sure not, but it was much easier formerly with some highlights waiting even more me.

(BTW, in the How Men and Women go Shopping reality example man's buying behavior is more expensive on a $ per hour basis. biggrin.gif)

This post has been edited by halb27: Nov 5 2013, 13:43


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greynol
post Nov 5 2013, 14:44
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A coworker told me yesterday that he is happy he doesn't have to go to the well for water.

I have to agree with him. Thanks to modern technology it tastes better; to the point that I savor it more, not less. I especially notice every time I change a cartridge (pun absolutely not intended, nor applicable here).

This post has been edited by greynol: Nov 5 2013, 15:08


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Gecko
post Nov 5 2013, 18:02
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Warning: the following contains mild irony, sweeping generalizations and kitchen philosophy.

One appeal of vinyl is its imperfection and the ability to tweak and twiddle with the goal of mitigating said imperfections. (Whether that goal is achieved is another story.) You can fool around with the anti-skating, change your cartridge, use various cleaning-brushes, try wet playback, ... After each tweak you feel the need to re-listen to your records. They may in fact sound different and you may suddenly hear things you've "never heard before".

Digital, on the other hand, is pretty much perfect from the start and you can't make it better (or worse) by fiddling with it, because there is nothing to fiddle with. Where's the fun in that? This is when people start to put their CDs in the freezer, paint the rims green, burn-in their USB-cables or mess with LAME command line parameters. Why? Because people are seldom happy with the status quo (even if it is practically perfect) and need to tweak. Vinyl readily satisfies that urge and is thus a more engaging experience as a whole.
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greynol
post Nov 5 2013, 19:16
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QUOTE (Gecko @ Nov 5 2013, 10:02) *
put their CDs in the freezer

What if I told you that I've been able to get error-free rips by reducing a disc's temperature?


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splice
post Nov 6 2013, 00:21
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QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 5 2013, 11:16) *
QUOTE (Gecko @ Nov 5 2013, 10:02) *
put their CDs in the freezer

What if I told you that I've been able to get error-free rips by reducing a disc's temperature?


That depends on whether you were unable to get an error free rip without reducing the disc's temperature.


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greynol
post Nov 6 2013, 00:39
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I wouldn't have otherwise mentioned it. wink.gif


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2Bdecided
post Nov 6 2013, 11:19
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It's OT, but I'm intrigued now.
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greynol
post Nov 6 2013, 11:39
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That was at least ten years ago when I would try just about anything to get accurate rips of my entire collection with a substandard drive. That is all behind me now.

If you wish to analyze the method, you have to consider whether the coefficient of the disc is significant enough compared to the quarter-wavelength of the laser, given the possible temperature differences involved.

There's a topic on it somewhere, though I don't know that it has been rigorously tested. Maybe Monty will make a video. After all, who doesn't like to play with liquid nitrogen?

This post has been edited by greynol: Nov 6 2013, 11:44


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Gecko
post Nov 8 2013, 18:27
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QUOTE (greynol @ Nov 5 2013, 20:16) *
What if I told you that I've been able to get error-free rips by reducing a disc's temperature?

I would thank you for supporting my point. smile.gif

Was your experience similar to this one: http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize199912.htm?
QUOTE (From the link)
The overall character of the change was that of a higher degree of clarity and focus, ...


Joking aside, I doubt you would recommend routinely freezing CDs to enjoy better fidelity when played back in a CD-player. But I'm curious: how much did you cool the disc and did you let it thaw before ripping? What coefficient do you mean?
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greynol
post Nov 8 2013, 18:50
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QUOTE (Gecko @ Nov 8 2013, 10:27) *
Joking aside, I doubt you would recommend routinely freezing CDs to enjoy better fidelity when played back in a CD-player.

Of course I wouldn't. smile.gif

QUOTE (Gecko @ Nov 8 2013, 10:27) *
how much did you cool the disc and did you let it thaw before ripping?

I put it in the freezer left it there long enough for it to get cold and immediately put it in the drive and started ripping. I believe I also had to make sure the drive had not recently been in use so as not to have an elevated internal temperature. This was a long time ago and I really didn't take lots of data to support any blanket claims. It could have just been an anomaly or it may have been just a coincidence. The point is that I don't know that I would so easily dismiss the idea that temperature can influence extraction quality.

QUOTE (Gecko @ Nov 8 2013, 10:27) *
What coefficient do you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_expan...ion_coefficient

Can we please let this go and get back on-topic?

This post has been edited by greynol: Nov 8 2013, 19:17


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pdq
post Nov 8 2013, 19:16
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I can't help but speculate, that if a CD is taken from the freezer then moisture will condense on it, and the lens will be looking through a drop of water, which may make surface scratches less visible.

@greynol: delete this OT post if you like.
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greynol
post Nov 8 2013, 19:21
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That raises an interesting point. This can be split or merged with an older thread if anyone wishes to discuss it further.

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Propheticus
post Nov 8 2013, 20:13
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned the EDM scene yet. Many house/dance tracks come/came out on vinyl before they were released on CD or via online distribution. Before the age of the Pioneer CD-DJ systems vinyl was thé format for DJ's, so new music would get pressed first not 'burned'*. This could be a reason to love vinyl; being able to get your fix of 'look at me, i'm listening to music nobody has heard in the club yet'.

*: Before anyone starts nitpicking. Yes, I know technically CD's from the factory get pressed as well.

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