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Test your soundcard for clipping, with this sample
Acid8000
post Jul 30 2005, 02:50
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QUOTE (cyborg @ Jul 30 2005, 03:12 AM)
QUOTE
What's with the AC97 codec resampling bullshit?

If you mean my earlier post:
QUOTE
I tested the "udial.ape" on foobar2000 0.8.3. My soundcard is VIA AC'97. I tried it first without resampler and there was distortions. When I adjusted the "Preamp" to -3 dB there was no distortions. Next I tested it with three resamplers: SSRC, PPHS and SRC (Secret Rabbit Code v1.01). I upsampled the file to 48 kHz with all resamplers and all combos. All produced a variable amount of distortions, except SRC's "Sinc Fastest" quality in normal and slow mode. The distortions disappeared completely in that quality and in normal and slow mode.

Then I assure you it's not "bullshit". It did work in my AC'97 soundcard. smile.gif
*



I was just in the mood to type that word. tongue.gif


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Xenion
post Aug 14 2005, 20:24
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foobar (no dsps) => kernelstreaming => m-audio revo=> SPDIF => RME adi2 standalone dac

= phone sound + very high tone

there is no clipping when i look at the spdif levels in the mixer

all volumes are set to 100% (i have no chance to set them to another level in digital out mode)
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legg
post Aug 14 2005, 21:14
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If the tone is present then it should be played back, I made a 19.5kHz test tone and played it back, the volume I perceived was about the same. Does that mean the soundcard is clipping? I'd say no, I'd say it is just doing the job of playing back what is recorded.

But then I see you guys quite convinced about it and made me doubt. So here goes the naive question: How is it that if you only hear the dialing and NOT the high freq tone then everything is fine?.


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Caleb_
post Aug 14 2005, 23:01
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Everybody has different ears, so not everybody hear 19khz tone or not every speakers can produce 19khz tone. Only when you hear "alien sounds" it menas that sound card has clipping.
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Pio2001
post Aug 16 2005, 11:48
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It doesn't necessarily mean that it clips. Resampling can produce alien sounds.
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legg
post Aug 16 2005, 16:59
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ok, then my soundcard and my hearing is OK biggrin.gif


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rutra80
post Aug 17 2005, 07:23
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QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 16 2005, 12:48 PM)
It doesn't necessarily mean that it clips. Resampling can produce alien sounds.
*

But wouldn't it still be caused by clipping in the resampling process?

This post has been edited by rutra80: Aug 17 2005, 07:23
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Bobjua
post Aug 18 2005, 00:20
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i think there is something wrong with my soundcard, and i was coming to look for help on the forums. and i saw this topic, so i checked it out. i can hear the dialing fine. there is no clicking. and i can hear this really high pitch piercing noise, but thats supposed to be there right. im pretty sure i have no DSP's turned on, and my volume control is at its max.

so is there something wrong with my soundcard or not?
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rutra80
post Aug 18 2005, 14:27
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You didn't write why you think that there's something wrong with your soundcard.
udial isn't about finding out if soundcard is damaged, it's rather to check its quality. You should start a separate topic.
As for what you hear, it's good that you don't hear clicking, but you shouldn't hear high pitched sound either - it's way too high to be heard (you could "sense" it in the best case), if you hear it then it means that your soundcard has low-quality resampling/clips (so the sound is aliased to lower frequencies). Try lowering the volume, use resampler, and different output modes until you hear clear dialing only.

This post has been edited by rutra80: Aug 18 2005, 14:50
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Bobjua
post Aug 18 2005, 18:24
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yeah i guess i 'sense' it, because im the only one in the room who notices it, and i can notice it from outside the room when its still playing.
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XoR
post Aug 18 2005, 22:57
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There's what I get for soundcards I tested:

Creative SoundBlaster Live! 24-bit
- Buzzy sound when Allow Hardware bla bla Enabled in DSound plugin in Winamp and SSRC disabled.
- Perfect with "Allow..." with SSRC @ 48KHz
- Perfect without "Allow..." with SSRC @ 48KHz
- Good without "Allow..." in DSound with or without SSRC !!!!!!!
- Good on all WAVE programs, even on old "sndrec32.exe" (don't know how this program is in english cos I always used polish windows wink.gif )

But there is one strange thing! These are new results, not old. In the past (2-3 months ago) udial.wav sounded perfect witn SSRC@48 or 96. WAVE things produced fizzy-wizzy sound that are as much annoying as Crazy-Frog wink.gif Some time ago I installed Win2k3 Server and there first I saw that without SSRC I can have clear sound withoud any buzzing, aliens, ambulances or other artefacts laugh.gif Now I have XP SP2 smile.gif

Volume 100/100 for Master/Wave

NVIDIŽ nForce™ Audio (SONATA)
- Aliens atackt @ evere settings except SSRC @ 48KHz
- With SSRC @ 48KHz sounds to me quite good and I havent heard any arifacts or noises with my headphones.

Volume 100/100 for Master/Wave rolleyes.gif

Creative SoundBlaster 128PCI
Maybe this card's old but noone can tell me that Live! on emu2k1 are better! RMAA usually get better for sb128pci and look @ this:

- No artifact at all in any mode I used to play!

I don't remember that I used 100/100 for volume, but used 100 for Wave for sure! So I think it was 100/100 but not 100% sure crying.gif

Some shitty card on Cmedia 9xxx which I know has output to 5.1 systems laugh.gif

- buzzing and fizzing on all settings I used for testing!

One word I can say bout this card : "SHIT" dry.gif

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I used WinAmp 2.91 cos it's the best laugh.gif with out_ds_ssrc.dll 2.2.6 SSRC and foobar2k with SSRC @ 48KHz. Both speakers and headphones (plugged directly to card to avoid my shitty ampligfiers that noising at higher freqences sad.gif )

I hadn't tested my ALC650 (nForce Audio) on standard Realtec drivers (that has worse audio quality that nvidia ones) on udial.wav but I'm sure it should sound good and without artefacts @ 48KHz (if realtecs drivers can produce "good" sound by any meaning dry.gif)

ps. If you have ALC6xx try installing nVidia drivers (if it's possible) , cos those have way better sound (quite easy to check by ears smile.gif ) and aprox. 10dBA in Dynamic Range diffrence in RMAA blink.gif
ps2. In BWGen I can clearly hear 19.5KHz sine as in udial.wav, but that program isn't perfect for that frequences so I will do tests on others better for that purpose programs smile.gif
ps3. Sorry for my english sad.gif

This post has been edited by XoR: Aug 18 2005, 23:07
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Acid8000
post Aug 19 2005, 04:32
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QUOTE (XoR @ Aug 19 2005, 07:57 AM)
Creative SoundBlaster 128PCI
Maybe this card's old but noone can tell me that Live! on emu2k1 are better! RMAA usually get better for sb128pci and look @ this:

- No artifact at all in any mode I used to play!

I don't remember that I used 100/100 for volume, but used 100 for Wave for sure! So I think it was 100/100 but not 100% sure crying.gif
*


Hehe why do you think I still use that ancient card over my onboard Realtek? cool.gif


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Pio2001
post Aug 20 2005, 00:35
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QUOTE (rutra80 @ Aug 17 2005, 08:23 AM)
QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Aug 16 2005, 12:48 PM)
It doesn't necessarily mean that it clips. Resampling can produce alien sounds.
*

But wouldn't it still be caused by clipping in the resampling process?
*



No. Here's udial's sonogram :



Here's what happens when it clips (aliased harmonic distortion) :



And here's what happens when it is resampled (alias only) :

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zima
post Oct 27 2005, 15:36
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I'll probably add to my system second audio card for general use/music listening, so I'll have, apart from Aureal Vortex SQ2500 (still few A3D 2.0 games here tongue.gif ), also Turtle Beach Santa Cruz (much better for music, right?), that I'll get extremelly cheaply.
And I've read, using Search HA, that Santa Cruz does resample, however much better than Creative. So, my question: is this sample enough to determine if resampling is absolutelly good and if it would be preferable or not to do it in software?


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micmac
post Nov 2 2005, 17:17
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I tried with my Audiophile 2496 a few minutes ago.

I used fb2k, no resampling (the audiophile can take almost every frequency), no DSPs (not even volume), DirectSound 2.0 output. In my Audiophile mixer all levels up to 0 (highest).

I can clearly hear the dialing. In addition to that I can hear a high tone in parallel to every dial from and including the fourth.

CODE
dial: . . .  - - - -

high:        x x x x


I'm using headphoes. The high tone comes from the right side. Now when I flip the headphones I can't hear the high tone anymore. So I guess my left ear isn't that good anymore dry.gif (yes, my girlfriend is the only one with a drivers license and I'm not living in the UK tongue.gif).

This post has been edited by micmac: Nov 2 2005, 17:21
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zima
post Nov 2 2005, 18:19
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QUOTE (micmac @ Nov 2 2005, 05:17 PM)
...
So I guess my left ear isn't that good anymore
...


Not necceserilly. When I was going through listening tests (medical background) using some wierd/very quiet sounds, very often (depends on the sample) the sound was percieved in the opposite ear to which it was played. So perhaps your right ear isn't that good anymore tongue.gif wink.gif


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DillPickle
post Jan 30 2006, 19:50
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I was convinced this test tone was worthless, since testing on my AC97 onboard sound I couldn't eliminate the high frequency no matter what volumes I tried or what resamples I did (using Adobe Audition). Then I tried with my low-budget Logitech USB-350 headset, and it immediately worked as intended, heh. A simple volume adjustment and all was well. I know nothing about the details of this set, but it's apparently got an "internal soundcard" (there's a a little bulge along the cord which is smaller than a remote car door opener) which dominates this crap I've got on my mobo (NForce3 chipset).

Sadly, I just ordered some Sennheiser HD 280 Pro headphones because I wanted the fully encompassing earpads (the Logitechs sit on the ear and make you sore after long use). The Logitech model is excellent for gaming communications with it's nice clear microphone and the plug and play aspect, but I wanted something better for music. But now it looks like I better get a soundcard to go with the headphones, or I'll actually be taking a step backwards by plugging Sennheisers into this trash...

This post has been edited by DillPickle: Jan 30 2006, 19:53
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elenhil
post Oct 27 2006, 12:44
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I have clear dialing + high tone with this sample whenever I turn Noise Sharpening DSP off (turning in on causes audible distortion in this sample). The question is: should I stop using this DSP module altogether, of is it a purely theoretical sample, and no actual music would be ruined by Noise Sharpening?
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Halide
post Dec 23 2006, 04:18
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I'm pretty sure I fried my tweeter playing this sound... it clipped my amplifier and my tweeter now has a scratchy sound to it. Yes, I did read the warning about damaging equipment and I didn't even play it at half volume but it still seemed to damage my $30 tweeter. dry.gif
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latuman
post Jan 3 2007, 21:03
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I heard a greatly distorted "siren" with 44,1khz. Foobar resampled it to 48khz by my command, and it almost disappeared.

Now if I yank up the volume, both in windows and from the speakers (I use headphones plugged in), I get this really piercing tone, thats not so much as a sound anymore, than it is a needle in my brain. Am I supposed to hear this? The tone is clear and not distorted at all. I use Audigy Player and no other DSP:s. Should I hear this tone? Is it absolutely, completely impossible to hear? This clear tone is all distortion or something then?

Still, I hear it.
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CiTay
post Jan 3 2007, 22:45
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QUOTE (Halide @ Dec 23 2006, 04:18) *
I'm pretty sure I fried my tweeter playing this sound... it clipped my amplifier and my tweeter now has a scratchy sound to it. Yes, I did read the warning about damaging equipment and I didn't even play it at half volume but it still seemed to damage my $30 tweeter. dry.gif


I will add a note to get some really cheap PC speakers if you want to test this. I don't want to see any more stuff getting blown...
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odyssey
post Jan 3 2007, 23:56
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Trying this with my onboard nForce4 sound chip creates the distortion - no matter what I try: Resampling to 48khz, putting down WAVE volume does decrease the distortion, but it's definately still there!

I tried it on my X-fi... No distortion at all, and it even resamples to 48khz onboard (i have a hard time forcing it to use the bitmatched playback on the flexijack connection). I guess this shows, that Creative did something right on the resampler on this card ;-)

Btw, where do I find the soft limiter, that was mentioned early in this thread?


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master
post Jan 4 2007, 00:26
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QUOTE (odyssey @ Jan 3 2007, 14:56) *
I tried it on my X-fi... No distortion at all, and it even resamples to 48khz onboard (i have a hard time forcing it to use the bitmatched playback on the flexijack connection).

You can set your X-Fi to Audio Creation Mode if you want bit-match playback, even in Analog connection.


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odyssey
post Jan 4 2007, 09:18
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QUOTE (master @ Jan 4 2007, 00:26) *
QUOTE (odyssey @ Jan 3 2007, 14:56) *
I tried it on my X-fi... No distortion at all, and it even resamples to 48khz onboard (i have a hard time forcing it to use the bitmatched playback on the flexijack connection).

You can set your X-Fi to Audio Creation Mode if you want bit-match playback, even in Analog connection.

That's why I wrote "i have a hard time forcing it". The settings are correct, and it works perfectly from the front panel - Only a few times it has worked through flexijack though. They should fix their drivers.


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maiki
post Feb 6 2008, 15:01
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I have tested UDIAL.WAV encoded into 320 kbps MP3 with original resolution and sampling rate with these results:

Pioneer VSX 516 - straight from USB flash disc on its input - distorted
PC AD1988A - XP Professional - Winamp - analogue output - distorted
PC AD1988A - XP Professional - Winamp - SPDIF VSX 516 - distorted
notebook AD1981 (not sure which version) - Vista Basic - Goldwave - analogue output - distorted
notebook AD1981 (not sure which version) - Vista Basic - Winamp - analogue output - CLEAN, not distorted

distorted = I can hear cracking (clipping?) AT ANY VOLUME LEVEL

What is going on here?
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