Encoding to mp3PRO 100 VBR Options

[Rio]

I just did a simple, open experiment using mp3PRO via EAC+cool edit pro mp3 filter (however ancient mp3PRO may be.)

I ripped and encoded my "So So Def Bass All-Stars Vol. III" CD with this maximum setting: mp3pro 100 VBR, described as the highest quality sounding mp3PRO available. 15 files with average bitrate of 131.2 kbps as per EncSpot.

I burned the mp3PRO files as CD audio using Nero, intended to be played in my car CD player with upgraded set of speakers (Lanzar tweeters and Pioneer 2-way coaxial speakers).

It sounded good to me and have no complaints to it yet whatsoever. I haven't tried ABXing it yet, nor even tried to play alternately the original CD and the burned CD in the car to listen for artifacts and other audible changes (in the car, yes since this would be my target environment.)

I tried to search in the forums regarding mp3PRO 100 VBR, and stumbled upon some vague comments like "mp3PRO is sh*t" (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2538).

Have there been earlier tests using mp3PRO at its highest setting? Looking forward for your comments (please no bashing.)

Cheers!

(and while there wasn't any answer yet, I'm happy to find out that I heard ff123's sweep all through out)

This post has been edited by Rio: Apr 21 2007, 17:58

[hlloyge]

Does your car stereo support fully mp3pro? Because, if it doesn't, and it has only mp3 compatibility, music will be reproduced as 22050khz stereo - which brings some attention to spending money on tweeters for sounds that doesn't get reproduced at all

[neomoe]

Does your car stereo support fully mp3pro? Because, if it doesn't, and it has only mp3 compatibility, music will be reproduced as 22050khz stereo

I burned the mp3PRO files as CD audio using Nero

This post has been edited by neomoe: Apr 21 2007, 15:57

[NeoRenegade]

If the end result is audio-CD's, then why are you using MP3pro in the middle? That will hurt the audio quality. Best to use PCM-WAV.

[hlloyge]

(being eejit)

[Rio]

If the end result is audio-CD's, then why are you using MP3pro in the middle? That will hurt the audio quality. Best to use PCM-WAV.

I was trying to find out if mp3PRO 100 VBR is *good enough* for its size vs. quality. I simulated what-if I lost my original cd but has ripped-and-encoded it with this setting. Would this be good enough to burn again as CD audio? In short, trying to listen if it would pass as sort of *archival* (or at least *transparent*) quality for mp3PRO, since it is in its maximal setting. Actually, I just borrowed this idea from the FhG website:

How do I achieve perfect audio quality using MP3?

1) A good MP3 encoder. The Fraunhofer IIS encoder is available in many current software applications, for example, the MusicMatch Jukebox, Windows Media 10 and the Magix MP3 Maker.

2) High bitrate. For the highest quality, do not use bitrates lower than 192 kbit/s. You might even want to consider using 256 kbit/s and higher although differences are rarely conceivable in that area. If you use a variable bitrate setting, choose the maximum quality setting available in the encoder interface.

Initial audition of that burned CD was somewhat remarkable. So far, I haven't encountered warbling as those heard from problem 128 MP3s. Given this high compression ratio, I was inclined to back-up my CDs at this setting (hey, no violent reactions at this moment please?)

I'm not capable of ABX'ing yet (haven't got good quality earphones) so I just tried it in real world listening environment.

Off-topic, there was a time I also did a simple experiment (still not blinded) comparing a problem track from a Filipino band CD. I ripped it in 1) WAV; encoded it in 2) 128 CBR FhG ACM high quality, the version that came with WMP10 then; 3) 128 CBR LAME 3.97b, high quality and J-Stereo; and 4) 128 CBR WMA Standard. Then I burned the 4 tracks as CD audio, with CD-text, and tried to listen to differences in my car stereo (a Pioneer DEH-4750MP at that time), fiddling across tracks and really listening at the track's critical passage. In short, I got to find out that at this bitrate and at this particular song, FhG delivered smoothly on that critical area better than LAME. (Okay, this is just one song. No throwing of TOS #8 please?)

Toast? Cheers!

This post has been edited by Rio: Apr 21 2007, 19:05

[pdq]

I burned the mp3PRO files as CD audio using Nero, intended to be played in my car CD player with upgraded set of speakers (Lanzar tweeters and Pioneer 2-way coaxial speakers).

So the correct question would have been, do we know that Nero is able to properly decode mp3pro? I don't know the answer, just asking the question.

BTW, if you want transparent or nearly transparent MP3 files, LAME at this general bit rate is usually considered to be good enough for most people's ears, and you run less risk of obsolescence.

[westgroveg]

Isn't MP3Pro just an mp3 coder + SBR?

[kornchild2002]

I burned the mp3PRO files as CD audio using Nero, intended to be played in my car CD player with upgraded set of speakers (Lanzar tweeters and Pioneer 2-way coaxial speakers).

So the correct question would have been, do we know that Nero is able to properly decode mp3pro? I don't know the answer, just asking the question.

BTW, if you want transparent or nearly transparent MP3 files, LAME at this general bit rate is usually considered to be good enough for most people's ears, and you run less risk of obsolescence.

Yes, with the proper plug-ins installed. Nero can fully encode and decode mp3pro. However, I would stay away from mp3pro for archival purposes. If anything, you can purchase a external hard drive and rip to a lossless format. External hard drives are really inexpensive these days. mp3pro is not widely supported as well. You would have better luck with HE-AAC, LC-AAC, or Lame mp3 if you want a lossy archive as those formats are more widely supported.

[Rio]

So the correct question would have been, do we know that Nero is able to properly decode mp3pro? I don't know the answer, just asking the question.

BTW, if you want transparent or nearly transparent MP3 files, LAME at this general bit rate is usually considered to be good enough for most people's ears, and you run less risk of obsolescence.

Nero natively has mp3PRO capablities, so it is able to encode and decode mp3PRO files properly. I'm considering going back to LAME (-V5 at least.)

Isn't MP3Pro just an mp3 coder + SBR?

indeed!

[Arkadas]

so technically almost the same as AAC+(AAC and SBR)?

For me choosing a codec depends on the goal / use of the audio.

- When streaming audio it might be a solution to reach even the normal mp3 listeners and let install the plug-in for optimal sound.. I used this in the past, when AAC+ didn't even excist. An audio stream for radio stations is mostly sound of the moment sounding better is fine, even though it really technically spoken isn't better. besides it's a nice way to get the stream smaller (bitrate) and handel more listeners or handel dial-ups. Today I would choose AAC+.

- when used for archiving..... wel don't for above mentioned reasons and reasons mentioned in the threath.

By the way just saying it's garbidge because you have to install a plug-in doesn't count for me. Because in the eary stage of AAC+ there where no players to play AAC+ at all or you needed a plug-in too.


regards,

Arkadas

[gameplaya15143]

mp3pro 100 VBR

I'm more curious in the MP3 portion.
What is the samplerate? 22050hz or 44100hz?
What is the lowpass frequency?

.... if its 22050hz... 130kbps -(about)8kbps(guess) for SBR = 122kbps...

[QHOBBES 2.0]

What is the samplerate? 22050hz or 44100hz?

Does your car stereo support fully mp3pro? Because, if it doesn't, and it has only mp3 compatibility, music will be reproduced as 22050khz stereo

[Rio]

I'm more curious in the MP3 portion.
What is the samplerate? 22050hz or 44100hz?
What is the lowpass frequency?

.... if its 22050hz... 130kbps -(about)8kbps(guess) for SBR = 122kbps...

IIRC, the MP3 portion has a samplerate of 22050khz, and LPf of up to 8khz (for a 64kbps mp3PRO file). http://www.mp3prozone.com/basics.htm

Frequency analysis using Cool Edit Pro 2.1 yielded the following results:

• mp3PRO 64kbps CBR - up to 16khz (I could only assume that LPf for the MP3 part alone is half of the target for the full mp3PRO spectrum = up to 8khz)
• mp3PRO 100 VBR - up to 22khz (most likely LPf up to 11khz for MP3 part)

Could anyone confirm this?

Thanks!

Or simply put, if a 64kbps mp3PRO file is played without the proper decoder, it would only yield up to 8khz, and an mp3PRO 100 VBR file would only yield up to 11khz.