MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications, ...and first encoder is available! |
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MPEG-4 Audio Lossless: final specifications, ...and first encoder is available! |
Dec 28 2005, 22:43
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#1
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 3474 Joined: 7-November 01 From: Strasbourg (France) Member No.: 420 |
This moment was awaited for a long time, MPEG-4 lossless audio (ALS) specifications are now ready. Standardization were finalized recently and it was announced in Japan by the NTT company (source: here and in french)
MAIN FEATURES: • Support for PCM resolutions of up to 32-bit at arbitrary sampling rate (including 16/44.1, 16/48, 24/48, 24/96, 24/192). • Multi-channel / multi-track support for up to 65536 channels (including 5.1 surround). • Support for 32-bit IEEE floating point audio data. • Optional storage in MP4 file format (allows multiplex with video). more info: here download page: here |
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Dec 28 2005, 22:48
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#2
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 3474 Joined: 7-November 01 From: Strasbourg (France) Member No.: 420 |
I'm currently running a comparison between the freely available MPEG-4 ALS encoder and other popular lossless tools.
My table: - MPEG-4 {default} - flac 1.1.2 -8 - WavPack 4.3 -fx5 - WavPack 4.3 -x4 - Monkey's Audio 3.99 "fast" /-c1000 - Monkey's Audio 3.99 "normal" / -c2000 Files are my 150 reference full tracks (=16 hours of music), classical music only. CODE --------------------------------------------------------------------- MPEG-4 flac -8 WPack -fx5 WPack -x4 MAC 1000 MAC 2000 --------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | | 614,28 | 633,87 | 628,72 | 618,27 | 616,05 | 603,20 --------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | | 550,7 | 575,7 | 566,3 | 560,2 | 562,3 | 549,8 824,9 | 821,5 | 862,6 | 837,8 | 825,1 | 790,3 902,1 | 904,0 | 906,2 | 875,4 | 868,6 | 842,5 867,1 | 870,9 | 878,8 | 867,9 | 864,5 | 852,4 717,0 | 742,3 | 767,9 | 740,1 | 731,1 | 703,4 307,6 | 347,4 | 336,1 | 333,4 | 331,5 | 321,5 619,9 | 633,2 | 628,1 | 619,2 | 614,1 | 607,0 581,3 | 592,2 | 591,0 | 584,4 | 582,1 | 566,6 515,8 | 530,4 | 523,4 | 520,4 | 518,4 | 515,0 552,1 | 554,3 | 569,5 | 557,8 | 560,5 | 542,7 591,3 | 611,3 | 599,5 | 592,7 | 591,1 | 584,5 462,9 | 486,2 | 472,0 | 466,9 | 465,0 | 456,4 690,5 | 729,9 | 756,4 | 713,2 | 707,7 | 664,7 599,6 | 614,0 | 608,0 | 599,1 | 594,6 | 585,7 566,1 | 583,8 | 577,4 | 565,5 | 561,2 | 552,7 650,7 | 657,4 | 665,0 | 652,3 | 648,8 | 634,4 474,3 | 503,9 | 498,2 | 485,0 | 476,2 | 459,5 649,1 | 665,5 | 671,9 | 654,6 | 652,5 | 640,1 584,2 | 607,9 | 594,2 | 587,0 | 587,3 | 577,1 549,1 | 581,7 | 561,7 | 556,8 | 556,1 | 542,5 679,3 | 695,4 | 688,3 | 681,1 | 681,0 | 672,0 630,1 | 644,3 | 642,9 | 633,9 | 630,9 | 618,6 505,1 | 533,8 | 520,3 | 509,0 | 508,5 | 499,0 484,9 | 509,5 | 496,9 | 492,2 | 489,4 | 483,5 354,1 | 373,6 | 372,8 | 364,9 | 359,1 | 349,4 487,4 | 508,5 | 495,6 | 491,3 | 490,4 | 486,0 674,9 | 686,5 | 679,6 | 673,7 | 669,6 | 663,9 507,7 | 532,8 | 519,4 | 511,3 | 507,6 | 499,5 463,2 | 486,4 | 471,5 | 468,1 | 463,1 | 457,8 761,2 | 774,0 | 771,9 | 761,2 | 759,5 | 749,5 575,3 | 597,7 | 585,5 | 576,3 | 574,5 | 560,5 537,3 | 555,1 | 548,5 | 540,9 | 537,1 | 524,1 621,0 | 648,7 | 632,1 | 620,0 | 620,3 | 607,9 626,7 | 635,8 | 643,8 | 626,8 | 627,7 | 614,2 638,8 | 656,4 | 653,8 | 639,4 | 637,9 | 625,3 859,0 | 865,5 | 871,8 | 859,2 | 860,2 | 846,1 762,1 | 777,1 | 772,7 | 763,0 | 764,6 | 754,9 739,6 | 758,1 | 759,5 | 745,1 | 750,0 | 721,6 450,2 | 477,5 | 463,0 | 459,5 | 457,2 | 449,6 668,5 | 696,1 | 692,6 | 678,4 | 676,1 | 658,6 850,7 | 865,9 | 871,6 | 855,4 | 859,4 | 841,9 564,9 | 589,9 | 576,1 | 568,4 | 568,2 | 558,2 553,0 | 572,1 | 564,0 | 556,1 | 555,5 | 545,1 538,1 | 555,5 | 546,5 | 537,9 | 534,8 | 527,0 526,4 | 552,5 | 533,5 | 526,6 | 524,3 | 516,6 734,1 | 746,4 | 743,8 | 735,4 | 733,8 | 726,2 709,4 | 720,1 | 722,0 | 712,4 | 709,7 | 698,0 692,4 | 712,9 | 705,8 | 693,8 | 692,4 | 676,5 462,9 | 469,4 | 467,3 | 463,2 | 456,9 | 452,6 844,3 | 849,8 | 844,5 | 841,6 | 839,6 | 833,8 608,1 | 625,6 | 622,8 | 612,5 | 612,4 | 599,0 656,8 | 674,9 | 664,6 | 655,3 | 651,2 | 643,7 676,3 | 694,3 | 684,5 | 677,9 | 677,0 | 666,8 619,1 | 654,7 | 631,2 | 620,1 | 621,6 | 612,2 891,1 | 897,2 | 894,8 | 888,6 | 888,0 | 882,8 691,7 | 707,5 | 696,1 | 691,0 | 688,4 | 683,8 770,5 | 790,1 | 786,6 | 770,8 | 772,1 | 762,7 744,1 | 753,3 | 745,7 | 739,2 | 736,8 | 731,7 748,6 | 759,5 | 748,5 | 742,7 | 740,1 | 735,3 668,2 | 688,7 | 673,9 | 668,5 | 668,7 | 661,1 744,0 | 750,1 | 758,9 | 745,8 | 744,1 | 723,9 781,5 | 785,5 | 783,3 | 775,9 | 773,0 | 769,0 825,8 | 843,9 | 847,4 | 827,1 | 828,7 | 811,9 743,9 | 761,5 | 764,5 | 755,4 | 751,9 | 731,4 790,7 | 798,1 | 794,7 | 788,6 | 786,9 | 778,7 559,1 | 565,7 | 562,3 | 558,7 | 552,3 | 549,0 509,4 | 525,8 | 516,7 | 511,0 | 505,7 | 499,5 503,9 | 523,2 | 513,2 | 506,5 | 500,9 | 494,9 617,5 | 634,3 | 619,3 | 617,4 | 614,2 | 603,3 596,5 | 607,0 | 605,1 | 598,6 | 593,1 | 584,5 521,0 | 537,0 | 534,7 | 527,2 | 524,1 | 512,2 747,6 | 760,6 | 753,0 | 747,1 | 744,7 | 735,1 585,2 | 597,6 | 594,0 | 584,2 | 581,6 | 569,8 563,8 | 568,8 | 572,6 | 564,1 | 558,6 | 549,2 668,8 | 667,8 | 663,8 | 656,1 | 652,4 | 646,4 761,9 | 771,8 | 770,6 | 760,3 | 758,4 | 749,1 857,7 | 866,0 | 867,6 | 855,7 | 852,7 | 842,4 956,8 | 960,4 | 968,2 | 942,2 | 940,6 | 920,7 941,6 | 946,0 | 954,8 | 942,0 | 940,5 | 931,0 736,1 | 753,5 | 783,8 | 746,4 | 743,2 | 715,2 821,3 | 830,4 | 834,7 | 821,7 | 819,5 | 808,5 651,8 | 685,0 | 671,2 | 656,2 | 656,8 | 640,4 514,5 | 536,7 | 519,8 | 517,3 | 512,6 | 504,6 500,1 | 531,7 | 511,4 | 505,2 | 506,0 | 494,8 641,1 | 675,9 | 647,7 | 642,8 | 643,0 | 631,1 527,1 | 540,2 | 542,7 | 527,1 | 520,7 | 510,1 648,9 | 667,7 | 663,0 | 653,8 | 651,1 | 639,1 543,4 | 576,4 | 561,5 | 550,7 | 549,5 | 531,2 506,9 | 557,0 | 525,1 | 516,4 | 519,9 | 501,0 497,8 | 515,7 | 514,4 | 502,6 | 497,3 | 478,0 359,5 | 411,7 | 384,9 | 374,7 | 379,9 | 366,2 395,1 | 445,1 | 423,4 | 413,1 | 412,4 | 387,6 433,9 | 501,5 | 479,4 | 451,4 | 455,4 | 430,2 415,2 | 445,5 | 425,6 | 421,4 | 421,6 | 413,7 385,8 | 408,1 | 398,0 | 400,2 | 396,6 | 387,7 385,8 | 408,1 | 398,0 | 400,2 | 396,6 | 387,7 642,4 | 658,1 | 679,2 | 651,9 | 660,2 | 632,6 550,2 | 559,1 | 570,9 | 557,2 | 553,0 | 537,1 673,0 | 698,4 | 697,5 | 696,1 | 688,8 | 662,5 774,9 | 815,7 | 832,0 | 782,6 | 797,7 | 761,7 484,6 | 495,6 | 484,8 | 482,7 | 476,4 | 466,9 652,5 | 657,5 | 661,6 | 651,7 | 644,8 | 620,7 585,1 | 603,8 | 589,4 | 583,1 | 579,1 | 569,7 457,6 | 485,9 | 471,1 | 454,0 | 448,2 | 436,7 657,5 | 668,5 | 666,1 | 660,4 | 654,1 | 649,1 544,1 | 554,4 | 563,4 | 550,9 | 546,0 | 528,8 516,0 | 527,0 | 517,9 | 515,8 | 508,4 | 502,7 566,1 | 580,0 | 572,3 | 566,5 | 560,5 | 553,3 736,4 | 742,9 | 751,8 | 742,6 | 739,8 | 718,9 373,4 | 398,0 | 385,0 | 389,8 | 376,6 | 367,4 460,2 | 482,3 | 476,7 | 466,1 | 465,5 | 451,7 516,8 | 536,5 | 533,1 | 526,6 | 524,3 | 508,0 543,7 | 571,5 | 554,6 | 548,3 | 546,8 | 536,2 486,8 | 507,0 | 503,5 | 494,2 | 482,1 | 468,0 749,7 | 758,5 | 759,3 | 751,3 | 743,9 | 727,1 596,6 | 613,3 | 607,4 | 604,7 | 593,9 | 582,1 684,5 | 698,1 | 690,9 | 683,3 | 682,0 | 674,8 454,7 | 484,9 | 473,4 | 468,0 | 462,6 | 450,2 349,2 | 384,9 | 379,4 | 368,5 | 369,4 | 353,5 435,4 | 487,0 | 470,1 | 455,6 | 459,7 | 436,4 632,4 | 658,7 | 647,1 | 636,6 | 635,4 | 625,3 630,2 | 659,4 | 640,2 | 632,9 | 631,8 | 620,7 255,3 | 276,4 | 269,8 | 273,0 | 262,8 | 259,6 825,0 | 836,8 | 836,3 | 823,0 | 822,0 | 809,9 597,3 | 618,9 | 605,6 | 599,8 | 603,1 | 595,4 741,5 | 759,3 | 750,3 | 741,6 | 740,4 | 733,5 639,9 | 663,7 | 650,9 | 639,6 | 639,4 | 627,9 437,3 | 453,0 | 446,2 | 442,4 | 439,1 | 434,5 687,1 | 698,7 | 700,8 | 687,0 | 684,6 | 672,4 705,2 | 716,0 | 724,5 | 708,8 | 703,2 | 692,1 542,3 | 567,9 | 554,9 | 546,3 | 542,8 | 530,3 630,3 | 669,0 | 655,9 | 639,2 | 641,2 | 620,2 687,8 | 733,6 | 722,8 | 694,6 | 700,9 | 678,3 647,9 | 686,2 | 663,6 | 652,3 | 654,2 | 643,1 592,4 | 652,6 | 626,1 | 606,5 | 614,9 | 586,5 579,8 | 615,6 | 595,3 | 582,5 | 577,7 | 564,9 450,3 | 474,1 | 474,7 | 459,1 | 463,4 | 444,6 630,3 | 655,2 | 647,3 | 634,5 | 635,0 | 623,8 576,8 | 585,0 | 584,3 | 574,9 | 570,8 | 559,3 642,5 | 657,0 | 659,4 | 644,4 | 646,5 | 631,8 756,5 | 770,6 | 772,3 | 759,3 | 762,8 | 749,6 570,5 | 585,0 | 580,1 | 573,5 | 566,4 | 552,8 567,4 | 589,6 | 574,6 | 572,0 | 566,9 | 557,0 847,2 | 850,6 | 852,6 | 846,4 | 843,4 | 833,6 579,6 | 582,6 | 598,7 | 585,2 | 581,2 | 560,1 579,8 | 589,8 | 592,6 | 580,1 | 578,1 | 567,6 708,1 | 722,0 | 715,5 | 706,3 | 704,2 | 695,6 526,1 | 551,5 | 546,9 | 533,8 | 530,4 | 514,0 701,0 | 727,1 | 732,1 | 713,0 | 708,6 | 688,9 608,3 | 637,7 | 624,7 | 612,0 | 612,6 | 595,7 --------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | | 614,28 | 633,87 | 628,72 | 618,27 | 616,05 | 603,20 --------------------------------------------------------------------- MPEG-4 flac -8 WPack-fx5 WPack -x4 MAC 1000 MAC 2000 --------------------------------------------------------------------- The comparison is meaningless without encoding and decoding speed. But I didn't find any decoder for measuring speed, and I'm running the encoding task on a laptop which is handicaped by a slow HDD. The comparison is just "informative". EDIT: Monkey's audio bitrate were first wrong; they were edited one hour later. Sorry... This post has been edited by guruboolez: Dec 31 2005, 20:42 |
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Dec 28 2005, 22:58
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#3
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 3474 Joined: 7-November 01 From: Strasbourg (France) Member No.: 420 |
Usage (for interested people):
CODE mp4alsRM16 - MPEG-4 Audio Lossless Coding (ALS), Reference Model Codec Version 16 for Win32 (c) 2003-2005 Tilman Liebchen, Technical University of Berlin E-mail: liebchen@nue.tu-berlin.de Portions by Yuriy A. Reznik, RealNetworks, Inc. E-mail: yreznik@real.com Portions by Koichi Sugiura, NTT Advanced Technology corporation E-mail: ksugiura@mitaka.ntt-at.co.jp Portions by Takehiro Moriya, Noboru Harada and Yutaka Kamamoto, NTT E-mail: t.moriya@ieee.org, {n-harada,kamamoto}@theory.brl.ntt.co.jp Usage: mp4alsRM16 [options] infile [outfile] In compression mode, infile must be a PCM file (wav, aif, or raw format) or a 32-bit floating point file (normalized, wav format type 3). Mono, stereo, and multichannel files with up to 65536 channels and up to 32-bit resolution are supported at any sampling frequency. In decompression mode (-x), infile is the compressed file (.als). If outfile is not specified, the name of the output file will be generated by replacing the extension of the input file (wav <-> als). If outfile is '-', the output will be written to stdout. If infile is '-', the input will be read from stdin, and outfile has to be specified. General Options: -c : Check accuracy by decoding the whole file after encoding. -d : Delete input file after completion. -h : Help (this message) -v : Verbose mode (file info, processing time) -x : Extract (all options except -v are ignored) Encoding Options: -7 : Set parameters for optimum compression (except LTP, MCC, RLSLMS) -a : Adaptive prediction order -b : Use BGMC codes for prediction residual (default: use Rice codes) -e : Exclude CRC calculation -f#: ACF/MLZ mode: # = 0-7, -f6/-f7 requires ACF gain value -g#: Block switching level: 0 = off (default), 5 = maximum -i : Independent stereo coding (turn off joint stereo coding) -l : Check for empty LSBs (e.g. 20-bit files) -m#: Rearrange channel configuration (example: -m1,2,4,5,3) -n#: Frame length: 0 = auto (default), max = 65536 -o#: Prediction order (default = 10), max = 1023 -p : Use long-term prediction -r#: Random access (multiples of 0.1 sec), -1 = each frame, 0 = off (default) -s#: Multi-channel correlation (#=1-65536, jointly code every # channels) # must be a divisor of number of channels, otherwise -s is ignored -t#: Two methods mode (Joint Stereo and Multi-channel correlation) # must be a divisor of number of channels -u#: Random access info location, 0 = frames (default), 1 = header, 2 = none -z#: RLSLMS mode (default = 0: no RLSLMS mode, 1-quick, 2-medium 3-best ) Audio file support: -R : Raw audio file (use -C, -W, -F and -M to specifiy format) -S#: Sample type: 0 = integer (default), 1 = float -C#: Number of Channels (default = 2) -W#: Word length in bits per sample (default = 16) -F#: Sampling frequency in Hz (default = 44100) -M : 'MSByte first' byte order (otherwise 'LSByte first') -H#: Header size in bytes (default = 0) -T#: Trailer size in bytes (default = 0) -I : Show info only, no (de)compression (add -x for compressed files) Examples: mp4alsRM16 -v sound.wav mp4alsRM16 -n1024 -i -o20 sound.wav mp4alsRM16 - sound.als < sound.wav mp4alsRM16 -x sound.als mp4alsRM16 -x sound.als - > sound.wav mp4alsRM16 -I -x sound.als with foobar2000 (encoding only at the moment): • extension: als • parameters: -v %s %d |
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Dec 28 2005, 23:03
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#4
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Group: Members Posts: 751 Joined: 1-October 01 From: Falkenberg Member No.: 3810 |
QUOTE (guruboolez @ Dec 28 2005, 10:48 PM) I'm currently running a comparison between the freely available MPEG-4 ALS encoder and other popular lossless tools. My preliminary table: - WavPack 4.3 -fx5 - MPEG-4 {default} (other formats/setting are coming) Files are my 150 reference full tracks (=16 hours of music), classical music only. CODE WavPack MPEG-4 A01... 566,3 550,7 -2,8 % A02... 862,6 824,9 -4,4 % A03... 906,2 902,1 -0,5 % A04... 878,8 867,1 -1,3 % A05... 767,9 717,0 -6,6 % E01... 336,1 307,6 -8,5 % E02... 628,1 619,9 -1,3 % E03... 591,0 581,3 -1,7 % E04... 523,4 515,8 -1,5 % E05... 569,5 552,1 -3,1 % E06... 599,5 591,3 -1,4 % E07... 472,0 462,9 -1,9 % E08... 756,4 690,5 -8,7 % E09... 608,0 599,6 -1,4 % E10... 577,4 566,1 -2,0 % E11... 665,0 650,7 -2,2 % E12... 498,2 474,3 -4,8 % E13... 671,9 649,1 -3,4 % E14... 594,2 584,2 -1,7 % E15... 561,7 549,1 -2,3 % E16... 688,3 679,3 -1,3 % E17... 642,9 630,1 -2,0 % E18... 520,3 505,1 -2,9 % E19... 496,9 484,9 -2,4 % E20... 372,8 354,1 -5,0 % E21... 495,6 487,4 -1,7 % E22... 679,6 674,9 -0,7 % E23... 519,4 507,7 -2,3 % E24... 471,5 463,2 -1,8 % E25... 771,9 761,2 -1,4 % E26... 585,5 575,3 -1,8 % E27... 548,5 537,3 -2,0 % E28... 632,1 621,0 -1,7 % E29... 643,8 626,7 -2,6 % E30... 653,8 638,8 -2,3 % E31... 871,8 859,0 -1,5 % E32... 772,7 762,1 -1,4 % E33... 759,5 739,6 -2,6 % E34... 463,0 450,2 -2,8 % E35... 692,6 668,5 -3,5 % E36... 871,6 850,7 -2,4 % E37... 576,1 564,9 -2,0 % E38... 564,0 553,0 -1,9 % E39... 546,5 538,1 -1,5 % E40... 533,5 526,4 -1,3 % E41... 743,8 734,1 -1,3 % E42... 722,0 709,4 -1,7 % E43... 705,8 692,4 -1,9 % E44... 467,3 462,9 -0,9 % E45... 844,5 844,3 0,0 % E46... 622,8 608,1 -2,4 % E47... 664,6 656,8 -1,2 % E48... 684,5 676,3 -1,2 % E49... 631,2 619,1 -1,9 % E50... 894,8 891,1 -0,4 % E51... 696,1 691,7 -0,6 % E52... 786,6 770,5 -2,1 % E53... 745,7 744,1 -0,2 % E54... 748,5 748,6 0,0 % E55... 673,9 668,2 -0,8 % E56... 758,9 744,0 -2,0 % E57... 783,3 781,5 -0,2 % E58... 847,4 825,8 -2,5 % E59... 764,5 743,9 -2,7 % E60... 794,7 790,7 -0,5 % S01... 562,3 559,1 -0,6 % S02... 516,7 509,4 -1,4 % S03... 513,2 503,9 -1,8 % S04... 619,3 617,5 -0,3 % S05... 605,1 596,5 -1,4 % S06... 534,7 521,0 -2,6 % S07... 753,0 747,6 -0,7 % S08... 594,0 585,2 -1,5 % S09... 572,6 563,8 -1,5 % S10... 663,8 668,8 0,8 % S11... 770,6 761,9 -1,1 % S12... 867,6 857,7 -1,1 % S13... 968,2 956,8 -1,2 % S14... 954,8 941,6 -1,4 % S15... 783,8 736,1 -6,1 % S16... 834,7 821,3 -1,6 % S17... 671,2 651,8 -2,9 % S18... 519,8 514,5 -1,0 % S19... 511,4 500,1 -2,2 % S20... 647,7 641,1 -1,0 % S21... 542,7 527,1 -2,9 % S22... 663,0 648,9 -2,1 % S23... 561,5 543,4 -3,2 % S24... 525,1 506,9 -3,5 % S25... 514,4 497,8 -3,2 % S26... 384,9 359,5 -6,6 % S27... 423,4 395,1 -6,7 % S28... 479,4 433,9 -9,5 % S29... 425,6 415,2 -2,4 % S30... 398,0 385,8 -3,1 % S31... 398,0 385,8 -3,1 % S32... 679,2 642,4 -5,4 % S33... 570,9 550,2 -3,6 % S34... 697,5 673,0 -3,5 % S35... 832,0 774,9 -6,9 % S36... 484,8 484,6 0,0 % S37... 661,6 652,5 -1,4 % S38... 589,4 585,1 -0,7 % S39... 471,1 457,6 -2,9 % S40... 666,1 657,5 -1,3 % S41... 563,4 544,1 -3,4 % S42... 517,9 516,0 -0,4 % S43... 572,3 566,1 -1,1 % S44... 751,8 736,4 -2,1 % S45... 385,0 373,4 -3,0 % S46... 476,7 460,2 -3,5 % S47... 533,1 516,8 -3,1 % S48... 554,6 543,7 -2,0 % S49... 503,5 486,8 -3,3 % S50... 759,3 749,7 -1,3 % S51... 607,4 596,6 -1,8 % S52... 690,9 684,5 -0,9 % S53... 473,4 454,7 -4,0 % S54... 379,4 349,2 -8,0 % S55... 470,1 435,4 -7,4 % V01... 647,1 632,4 -2,3 % V02... 640,2 630,2 -1,6 % V03... 269,8 255,3 -5,3 % V04... 836,3 825,0 -1,4 % V05... 605,6 597,3 -1,4 % V06... 750,3 741,5 -1,2 % V07... 650,9 639,9 -1,7 % V08... 446,2 437,3 -2,0 % V09... 700,8 687,1 -2,0 % V10... 724,5 705,2 -2,7 % V11... 554,9 542,3 -2,3 % V12... 655,9 630,3 -3,9 % V13... 722,8 687,8 -4,8 % V14... 663,6 647,9 -2,4 % V15... 626,1 592,4 -5,4 % V16... 595,3 579,8 -2,6 % V17... 474,7 450,3 -5,1 % V18... 647,3 630,3 -2,6 % V19... 584,3 576,8 -1,3 % V20... 659,4 642,5 -2,6 % V21... 772,3 756,5 -2,1 % V22... 580,1 570,5 -1,7 % V23... 574,6 567,4 -1,3 % V24... 852,6 847,2 -0,6 % V25... 598,7 579,6 -3,2 % V26... 592,6 579,8 -2,2 % V27... 715,5 708,1 -1,0 % V28... 546,9 526,1 -3,8 % V29... 732,1 701,0 -4,2 % V30... 624,7 608,3 -2,6 % ________________________________ 628,72 614,28 -2,3 % The comparison is meaningless with encoding and decoding speed. But I didn't find any decoder for measuring speed, and I'm running the encoding task on a laptop which is handicaped by a slow HDD. The comparison is just "informative". This is just fantastic news! *cheers* -------------------- http://davidnordin.wordpress.com/
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Dec 28 2005, 23:28
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#5
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 782 Joined: 11-April 05 From: México Member No.: 21361 |
Scince this MPEG-4 lossless audio is standardized, does this mean that hardware support will be at least more abundant than the currently available players with any kind of lossless support?
-------------------- we was young an' full of beans
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Dec 28 2005, 23:34
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#6
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 3474 Joined: 7-November 01 From: Strasbourg (France) Member No.: 420 |
QUOTE (skelly831 @ Dec 28 2005, 11:28 PM) Scince this MPEG-4 lossless audio is standardized, does this mean that hardware support will be at least more abundant than the currently available players with any kind of lossless support? Only if manufacturers are interested to implement lossless. And MPEG-4 ALS have to fight against other formats like: - Apple Lossless - WMA Lossless - Sony's lossless - FLAC N.B. Monkey's normal has been add in the table. |
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Dec 28 2005, 23:41
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#7
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 730 Joined: 5-January 04 Member No.: 10970 |
Pretty cool. The big question now is who will adopt it... Let's hope Apple Lossless was just a stop-gap solution
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Dec 28 2005, 23:50
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#8
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 782 Joined: 11-April 05 From: México Member No.: 21361 |
QUOTE (guruboolez @ Dec 28 2005, 02:34 PM) QUOTE (skelly831 @ Dec 28 2005, 11:28 PM) Scince this MPEG-4 lossless audio is standardized, does this mean that hardware support will be at least more abundant than the currently available players with any kind of lossless support? Only if manufacturers are interested to implement lossless. And MPEG-4 ALS have to fight against other formats like: - Apple Lossless - WMA Lossless - Sony's lossless - FLAC N.B. Monkey's normal has been add in the table. Right, I don't see those companies abandoning their proprietary formats. -------------------- we was young an' full of beans
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Dec 29 2005, 00:17
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#9
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 1593 Joined: 24-March 02 From: Revere, MA Member No.: 1607 |
Yes, it uses BSAC (Bit-slice arithmetic coding). Correct me if I am wrong but isn't ALS hybrid codec that would be the purpose of BSAC? When I read the Research Paper on it that was the impression I got or am I missing something here? Is that something different.
QUOTE Right, I don't see those companies abandoning their proprietary formats. If there is money to be made from it they sure as hell won't at the cost of patenting some other general coding technique used in data compression. This post has been edited by HotshotGG: Dec 29 2005, 00:25 -------------------- College student/IT Assistant
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Dec 29 2005, 03:04
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#10
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 263 Joined: 23-February 04 From: United States Member No.: 12219 |
I tried a few encodings just to see the kind of compression & speed to expect. I put the encoder on verbose to get the speed and bitrate. I put comparison bitrates next to the "Average Rate" row, the comparisons are FLAC 1.1.2 at compression level -8.
My computer is fairly modern, it consists of: Athlon 64 3500+ (2200MHz) 2GB PC3200 RAM (128 Bit Dual Channel) Encoding From: 36GB SATA HDD Encoding To : 250GB SATA HDD CODE ------------------------------------------------------ mp4als -v (default) ------------------------------------------------------ PCM file: 01.dixie chicks - i can love you better.wav ALS file: 01.dixie chicks - i can love you better.als Encoding... 100% done Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch Bit rate : 1411.2 kbit/s Playing time : 233.9 sec PCM file size: 41254124 bytes ALS file size: 29225703 bytes Compr. ratio : 1.412 (70.84 %) Average bps : 11.335 Average rate : 999.7 kbit/s [ FLAC -8 1007 kbit/s ] Processing took 6.77 sec (34.6 x real-time) ------------------------------------------------------ mp4als -v (default) ------------------------------------------------------ PCM file: 01.dntel - (this is) the dream of evan and chan.wav ALS file: 01.dntel - (this is) the dream of evan and chan.als Encoding... 100% done Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch Bit rate : 1411.2 kbit/s Playing time : 344.9 sec PCM file size: 60846284 bytes ALS file size: 41706162 bytes Compr. ratio : 1.459 (68.54 %) Average bps : 10.967 Average rate : 967.3 kbit/s [ FLAC -8 939 kbit/s ] Processing took 9.88 sec (34.9 x real-time) ------------------------------------------------------ mp4als -v (default) ------------------------------------------------------ PCM file: 01.enya - only time.wav ALS file: 01.enya - only time.als Encoding... 100% done Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch Bit rate : 1411.2 kbit/s Playing time : 218.0 sec PCM file size: 38462300 bytes ALS file size: 23376405 bytes Compr. ratio : 1.645 (60.78 %) Average bps : 9.724 Average rate : 857.7 kbit/s [ FLAC -8 874 kbit/s ] Processing took 6.31 sec (34.5 x real-time) ------------------------------------------------------ mp4als -v (default) ------------------------------------------------------ PCM file: 01.eric clapton - tears in heaven.wav ALS file: 01.eric clapton - tears in heaven.als Encoding... 100% done Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch Bit rate : 1411.2 kbit/s Playing time : 273.1 sec PCM file size: 48180764 bytes ALS file size: 26903509 bytes Compr. ratio : 1.791 (55.84 %) Average bps : 8.934 Average rate : 788.0 kbit/s [ FLAC -8 805 kbit/s ] Processing took 7.91 sec (34.5 x real-time) ------------------------------------------------------ mp4als -v (default) ------------------------------------------------------ PCM file: 01.sigur r≤s - sΘ lest.wav ALS file: 01.sigur r≤s - sΘ lest.als Encoding... 100% done Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch Bit rate : 1411.2 kbit/s Playing time : 520.5 sec PCM file size: 91810364 bytes ALS file size: 44832450 bytes Compr. ratio : 2.048 (48.83 %) Average bps : 7.813 Average rate : 689.1 kbit/s [ FLAC -8 703 kbit/s ] Processing took 15.13 sec (34.4 x real-time) I wanted to see how fast the encoder was with the "-7" switch, and at this point, it is very slow. Obviously this is an initial release and the specification is new, but man that's slow. CODE ------------------------------------------------------ mp4als -v -7 (Set parameters for optimum compression) ------------------------------------------------------ PCM file: 01.enya - only time.wav ALS file: 01.enya - only time.als Encoding... 100% done Audio format : int / 16 bit / 44100 Hz / 2 ch Bit rate : 1411.2 kbit/s Playing time : 218.0 sec PCM file size: 38462300 bytes ALS file size: 22675979 bytes Compr. ratio : 1.696 (58.96 %) Average bps : 9.433 Average rate : 832.0 kbit/s Processing took 186.70 sec (1.2 x real-time) Interesting to see that the default settings are giving better compression than FLAC's highest setting. Seems the compression levels will be closer to Wavpack than FLAC. Very cool news, thanks for the info Guruboolez. This post has been edited by Zoom: Dec 29 2005, 03:05 |
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Dec 29 2005, 04:14
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#11
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 3474 Joined: 7-November 01 From: Strasbourg (France) Member No.: 420 |
Before the bed:
- WavPack 4.3 -fx5 - flac 1.1.2 -8 - Monkey's Audio 3.99 -normal - MPEG-4 ALS 2005.12.28 {defaut} The setting I used for WavPack and flac are those giving the best compressing ratio with no sacrifice on the decompressing speed. For MAC, I used he default setting, which offers IMO the best compromise between ratio (strong), encoding speed (fast) and decoding speed (decent). CODE flac WavPack MPEG-4 Monkey's 575,7 566,3 550,7 549,8 821,5 862,6 824,9 790,3 904,0 906,2 902,1 842,5 870,9 878,8 867,1 852,4 742,3 767,9 717,0 703,4 347,4 336,1 307,6 321,5 633,2 628,1 619,9 607,0 592,2 591,0 581,3 566,6 530,4 523,4 515,8 515,0 554,3 569,5 552,1 542,7 611,3 599,5 591,3 584,5 486,2 472,0 462,9 456,4 729,9 756,4 690,5 664,7 614,0 608,0 599,6 585,7 583,8 577,4 566,1 552,7 657,4 665,0 650,7 634,4 503,9 498,2 474,3 459,5 665,5 671,9 649,1 640,1 607,9 594,2 584,2 577,1 581,7 561,7 549,1 542,5 695,4 688,3 679,3 672,0 644,3 642,9 630,1 618,6 533,8 520,3 505,1 499,0 509,5 496,9 484,9 483,5 373,6 372,8 354,1 349,4 508,5 495,6 487,4 486,0 686,5 679,6 674,9 663,9 532,8 519,4 507,7 499,5 486,4 471,5 463,2 457,8 774,0 771,9 761,2 749,5 597,7 585,5 575,3 560,5 555,1 548,5 537,3 524,1 648,7 632,1 621,0 607,9 635,8 643,8 626,7 614,2 656,4 653,8 638,8 625,3 865,5 871,8 859,0 846,1 777,1 772,7 762,1 754,9 758,1 759,5 739,6 721,6 477,5 463,0 450,2 449,6 696,1 692,6 668,5 658,6 865,9 871,6 850,7 841,9 589,9 576,1 564,9 558,2 572,1 564,0 553,0 545,1 555,5 546,5 538,1 527,0 552,5 533,5 526,4 516,6 746,4 743,8 734,1 726,2 720,1 722,0 709,4 698,0 712,9 705,8 692,4 676,5 469,4 467,3 462,9 452,6 849,8 844,5 844,3 833,8 625,6 622,8 608,1 599,0 674,9 664,6 656,8 643,7 694,3 684,5 676,3 666,8 654,7 631,2 619,1 612,2 897,2 894,8 891,1 882,8 707,5 696,1 691,7 683,8 790,1 786,6 770,5 762,7 753,3 745,7 744,1 731,7 759,5 748,5 748,6 735,3 688,7 673,9 668,2 661,1 750,1 758,9 744,0 723,9 785,5 783,3 781,5 769,0 843,9 847,4 825,8 811,9 761,5 764,5 743,9 731,4 798,1 794,7 790,7 778,7 565,7 562,3 559,1 549,0 525,8 516,7 509,4 499,5 523,2 513,2 503,9 494,9 634,3 619,3 617,5 603,3 607,0 605,1 596,5 584,5 537,0 534,7 521,0 512,2 760,6 753,0 747,6 735,1 597,6 594,0 585,2 569,8 568,8 572,6 563,8 549,2 667,8 663,8 668,8 646,4 771,8 770,6 761,9 749,1 866,0 867,6 857,7 842,4 960,4 968,2 956,8 920,7 946,0 954,8 941,6 931,0 753,5 783,8 736,1 715,2 830,4 834,7 821,3 808,5 685,0 671,2 651,8 640,4 536,7 519,8 514,5 504,6 531,7 511,4 500,1 494,8 675,9 647,7 641,1 631,1 540,2 542,7 527,1 510,1 667,7 663,0 648,9 639,1 576,4 561,5 543,4 531,2 557,0 525,1 506,9 501,0 515,7 514,4 497,8 478,0 411,7 384,9 359,5 366,2 445,1 423,4 395,1 387,6 501,5 479,4 433,9 430,2 445,5 425,6 415,2 413,7 408,1 398,0 385,8 387,7 408,1 398,0 385,8 387,7 658,1 679,2 642,4 632,6 559,1 570,9 550,2 537,1 698,4 697,5 673,0 662,5 815,7 832,0 774,9 761,7 495,6 484,8 484,6 466,9 657,5 661,6 652,5 620,7 603,8 589,4 585,1 569,7 485,9 471,1 457,6 436,7 668,5 666,1 657,5 649,1 554,4 563,4 544,1 528,8 527,0 517,9 516,0 502,7 580,0 572,3 566,1 553,3 742,9 751,8 736,4 718,9 398,0 385,0 373,4 367,4 482,3 476,7 460,2 451,7 536,5 533,1 516,8 508,0 571,5 554,6 543,7 536,2 507,0 503,5 486,8 468,0 758,5 759,3 749,7 727,1 613,3 607,4 596,6 582,1 698,1 690,9 684,5 674,8 484,9 473,4 454,7 450,2 384,9 379,4 349,2 353,5 487,0 470,1 435,4 436,4 658,7 647,1 632,4 625,3 659,4 640,2 630,2 620,7 276,4 269,8 255,3 259,6 836,8 836,3 825,0 809,9 618,9 605,6 597,3 595,4 759,3 750,3 741,5 733,5 663,7 650,9 639,9 627,9 453,0 446,2 437,3 434,5 698,7 700,8 687,1 672,4 716,0 724,5 705,2 692,1 567,9 554,9 542,3 530,3 669,0 655,9 630,3 620,2 733,6 722,8 687,8 678,3 686,2 663,6 647,9 643,1 652,6 626,1 592,4 586,5 615,6 595,3 579,8 564,9 474,1 474,7 450,3 444,6 655,2 647,3 630,3 623,8 585,0 584,3 576,8 559,3 657,0 659,4 642,5 631,8 770,6 772,3 756,5 749,6 585,0 580,1 570,5 552,8 589,6 574,6 567,4 557,0 850,6 852,6 847,2 833,6 582,6 598,7 579,6 560,1 589,8 592,6 579,8 567,6 722,0 715,5 708,1 695,6 551,5 546,9 526,1 514,0 727,1 732,1 701,0 688,9 637,7 624,7 608,3 595,7 ____________________________________ 633,87 628,72 614,28 603,20 => MPEG-4 ALS has a better ratio than the current "very fast" and modern lossless encoders (flac and WavPack fast) => MPEG-4 ALS has a worse ratio than Monkey's -normal / -c2000 (results for classical music, but from my experience the difference between formats are extrapolable to other musical genres - with a higher bitrate...) As a consequence, I expect from this first implementation and for the encoding side to perform as good as Monkey's -fast/-c1000 (fast encoding/average decoding) or WavPack -x4 (very slow encoding/really fast decoding). The question now is: how fast/complex is the decoding side? As fast as Wavpack/flac? Slower than Monkey's? This post has been edited by guruboolez: Dec 29 2005, 04:32 |
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Dec 29 2005, 04:28
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#12
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 1060 Joined: 4-May 04 From: France Member No.: 13875 |
I did a small test on Where Is the Line by Björk, from the album Medúlla, ripped from a DVD-Audio (losslessly, search the forums). The audio is 24bit, 96kHz, 6 channels (5.1).
CODE 03 - Where Is the Line.wav: 462.827 MiB mp4 (default): 185.525 MiB 0m 58.920s mp4 -7 (best): 172.122 MiB 38m 21.697s wavpack -hm: 241.043 MiB 1m 2.869s wavpack -hmx1: 240.871 MiB 2m 50.220s wavpack -hmx2: 215.992 MiB 5m 48.687s wavpack -hmx3: 179.891 MiB 30m 50.188s wavpack -hmx6: to be done flac --best: 238.116 MiB 3m 22.062s I have to say, the results are very, VERY impressive. I'm currently encoding the whole album to wavpack -hmx6 for my own use, so I'll do more testing later. But man, I can't wait for that codec to be supported by Free Software (I use linux most of the time). Edit: added the filesize of the reference .wav file. This post has been edited by skamp: Dec 29 2005, 04:34 -------------------- Save my friend from going homeless: http://outpost.fr/url/308w
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Dec 29 2005, 05:30
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#13
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Winamp Developer Group: Developer Posts: 662 Joined: 17-July 05 From: Ashburn, VA Member No.: 23375 |
Does anybody know what patents are being used in MPEG-4 ALS and what the licensing terms are?
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Dec 29 2005, 08:06
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#14
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 2144 Joined: 29-June 02 From: Boston Member No.: 2427 |
Just out of curiosity, has anyone done bit comparisons to prove total lossless-ness?
-------------------- "You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight." Neil Peart 'Resist'
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Dec 29 2005, 08:31
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#15
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 1180 Joined: 21-February 02 From: Chicago Member No.: 1367 |
Wasn't LPAC the codec chosen a while ago for MPEG4 because of the lack of applicants?
-------------------- The object of mankind lies in its highest individuals.
One must have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. |
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Dec 29 2005, 08:36
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#16
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 263 Joined: 23-February 04 From: United States Member No.: 12219 |
QUOTE (dreamliner77 @ Dec 29 2005, 02:06 AM) I just checked it out on a couple of files. The files I tested, coded then decoded all were bit accurate. I used the bit comparator in foobar2000. I checked the filesizes in windows and they were exact too. |
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Dec 29 2005, 10:53
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#17
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![]() Server Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4808 Joined: 24-September 01 Member No.: 13 |
Try this:
-b : Use BGMC codes for prediction residual (default: use Rice codes) Edit: hmm, I guess -7 already does that. What's the effect of -p ? Try -z3, too. -7 -p -z3 should give best compression ratio This post has been edited by Garf: Dec 29 2005, 20:35 |
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Dec 29 2005, 11:01
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#18
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Group: Members Posts: 238 Joined: 22-February 04 Member No.: 12193 |
Thanks Guru for the comparisson
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Dec 29 2005, 11:02
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#19
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![]() Server Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4808 Joined: 24-September 01 Member No.: 13 |
QUOTE (HotshotGG @ Dec 29 2005, 01:17 AM) Yes, it uses BSAC (Bit-slice arithmetic coding). Correct me if I am wrong but isn't ALS hybrid codec that would be the purpose of BSAC? When I read the Research Paper on it that was the impression I got or am I missing something here? Is that something different. You are confusing it with SLS perhaps? |
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Dec 29 2005, 11:17
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#20
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 1593 Joined: 24-March 02 From: Revere, MA Member No.: 1607 |
QUOTE you are confusing it with SLS perhaps? SLS that's what I am thinking of -------------------- College student/IT Assistant
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Dec 29 2005, 13:19
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#21
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Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 25-December 05 Member No.: 26630 |
Ok, here is an encoding/decoding speed test. Album used is The Joshua Tree from U2, athlon64 (1.8GHz) cpu and linux. I have used 32-bit executables as there isn't a 64-bit object file for the adaptive prediction algorithm in the mpeg4als.zip.
CODE kbps encoding decoding flac 1.1.2 770.0 53.9x 168.7x flac 1.1.2 -8 767.2 7.1x 166.8x wavpack 4.31 759.8 72.0x 77.6x wavpack 4.31 -fx5 765.4 8.1x 101.8x wavpack 4.31 -x4 748.6 3.5x 79.8x mp4alsRM16 748.7 24.2x 69.2x mp4alsRM16 -7 723.5 0.81x 6.65x Edit: Added wavpack test. This post has been edited by miros: Dec 29 2005, 15:40 |
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Dec 29 2005, 13:37
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#22
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 3474 Joined: 7-November 01 From: Strasbourg (France) Member No.: 420 |
The table is updated on the second post of this thread. Were just added:
- MAC 3.99 -fast - WavPack 4.3 -x4 Summary: • MPEG-4 default = 614,28 kbps • flac -8 = 633,87 • WavPack -fx5 = 628,72 • WavPack -x4 = 618,27 • MAC -c1000 = 616,05 • MAC -c2000 = 603,20 => MPEG-4 default has nearly the same compression ratio on this musical genre than WavPack -hx4 and Monkey's Audio -fast. • Decoding speed (old Duron 800): x39 (WavPack) x20 (MAC) • Encoding speed (old Duron 800): x1.1 (WavPack) x19 (MAC) I can't evaluate speed on my laptop: results are varying too much from one encoding/decoding to another one. This post has been edited by guruboolez: Dec 29 2005, 15:05 |
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Dec 29 2005, 14:41
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#23
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 665 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Italy Member No.: 18968 |
QUOTE (skamp @ Dec 29 2005, 05:28 AM) I did a small test on Where Is the Line by Björk, from the album Medúlla, ripped from a DVD-Audio (losslessly, search the forums). The audio is 24bit, 96kHz, 6 channels (5.1). CODE 03 - Where Is the Line.wav: 462.827 MiB mp4 (default): 185.525 MiB 0m 58.920s mp4 -7 (best): 172.122 MiB 38m 21.697s wavpack -hm: 241.043 MiB 1m 2.869s wavpack -hmx1: 240.871 MiB 2m 50.220s wavpack -hmx2: 215.992 MiB 5m 48.687s wavpack -hmx3: 179.891 MiB 30m 50.188s wavpack -hmx6: to be done flac --best: 238.116 MiB 3m 22.062s I have to say, the results are very, VERY impressive. I'm currently encoding the whole album to wavpack -hmx6 for my own use, so I'll do more testing later. But man, I can't wait for that codec to be supported by Free Software (I use linux most of the time). Edit: added the filesize of the reference .wav file. Impressive! Now I'm really interested. -------------------- WavPack 4.60.1 -hx6b4cm/qaac 2.15 -V 100
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Dec 29 2005, 14:42
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#24
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Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 12-March 04 From: Germany Member No.: 12686 |
for the amount of muscles ALS is throwing at the problem the results are a bit disappointing.
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Dec 29 2005, 15:11
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#25
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 665 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Italy Member No.: 18968 |
Just my own little test:
AMD Sempron64 3400+ Corsair 1GB DDR XMS3200XL Platinum TwinX (2x512MB) CAS2 2 X Samsung SpinPoint P120 SATA Series SP2504C (from one to the other) CODE 81.974.300 10 - War Pigs.wav
wavpack -hx4 created 10 - War Pigs.wv in 390.01 secs (lossless, 29.80%) 57.548.910 10 - War Pigs.wv mp4alsRM16.exe -7 *Stop Watch 00:08:24.61 57.289.738 10 - War Pigs.als -------------------- WavPack 4.60.1 -hx6b4cm/qaac 2.15 -V 100
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 19th May 2013 - 06:00 |