Turntable Cartidge Options

[TheSneakerDude]

I dusted off my father's old Technics SL-1700 turntable and I have a few records I want to digitize. I want them to have decent sound on my computer. I need help choosing a cartidge, and my budget is anything below $200. I also wanted to know if it is better to buy a USB amp to connect the turntable to my computer or to buy a super sound card and connect the turntable directly into the sound card. I had a $300 Creative Elite Xi-Fi sound card in mind. I've been thinking about buying it for a while. Will it perform better than a separate amp plugged into the turntable and computer?

Any suggestions on cartidges?



-Thanks

This post has been edited by TheSneakerDude: May 21 2009, 01:43

[Arnold B. Kruege...]

I dusted off my father's old Technics SL-1700 turntable and I have a few records I want to digitize. I want them to have decent sound on my computer. I need help choosing a cartidge, and my budget is anything below $200. I also wanted to know if it is better to buy a USB amp to connect the turntable to my computer or to buy a super sound card and connect the turntable directly into the sound card. I had a $300 Creative Elite Xi-Fi sound card in mind. I've been thinking about buying it for a while. Will it perform better than a separate amp plugged into the turntable and computer?

Any suggestions on cartidges?

Shure M97HE - under $100 and well worth it.

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-High-Per...8864&sr=8-1

I favor using a separate RIAA phono preamp and plugging its outputs into the line level inputs of your existing audio interface, or an outboard USB line level audio interface such as the Behringer UCA 202 $30).

Which RIAA preamp?

http://www.needledoctor.com/Online-Store/P...CFRBhnAodnxXi2g

http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/phonpre.htm

Or whatever you already have that works well.

[Axon]

Many people (including me) have extremely good things to say about the AT440ML ($120): http://www.lptunes.com/Audio-Technica-AT44...dge-p/atc05.htm

I've used the AT95e available from LP Gear, great cheap cart ($50): http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.m...uct_Code=ATC95E

You can also consider the low end Denon high output MC carts starting in the $110 range, and any number of Ortofon carts. Personally I'm an AT partisan but they have been considered too cold/trebly for some people.

You're generally going to be looking for an elliptical or hyperelliptical/fine line/microline stylus profile, moving magnet or possibly high-output moving coil type, medium to high compliance (15-30cu). But Technics arms tend to be pretty accepting of almost anything.

Don't buy used cartridges unless you also buy a replacement stylus.

[TheSneakerDude]

Would it be a better idea to invest in a strong cartridge and a decent phono preamp? Or the other way around, a decent cartridge and a strong phono preamp?

For example a $200 or $300 cartridge from Audio Technica or Ortofon, etc. and a Rega Fono Mini Phono Preamp ($145)?

[Axon]

There are certain baselines to both that you shouldn't skimp on, but it's sorta up in the air beyond that. For cheap preamps you're be hurting the most with background noise and power hum (60hz). Even some preamps more expensive than those in your price range may have those sorts of problems. For cheap cartridges you'll usually want higher compliances and more aspherical stylus profiles to reduce distortion and wear.

The difference between a $50 AT95E and a $120 AT440ML (or even a 440ML and a $330 AT-OC9) is rather slight compared to noise differences between preamps in those price ranges, all of which will have noise levels perhaps even higher than with your onboard motherboard audio... what I would probably do is skimp more on the cart than on the preamp, since while the carts are the harder things to manufacture, the preamps will probably all be more objectionable at your price ranges (especially if you're coming from more of a computer audio/headphone background and such noises may be more objectionable). You might want to plan on returning a lot of preamps until you find the one that works the best.

That said, above your price range, solid state MM preamps (being rather easy to build solid state devices) just tend to be generically great, and all the cartridges are extremely good, but there are likely to be more substantial audible differences between cartridges than between preamps. (Ignoring the low output MC world which is a whole different ball game that you don't want to get into.)

This post has been edited by Axon: May 21 2009, 03:26

[TheSneakerDude]

I'm trying to decide between these two preamps:
Bellari VP-130 and the Pro-Ject Phonobox II USB Phono Preamp. I'm leaning towards the Pro-Ject Preamp because it is USB and may be more convenient to someone without much experience like myself. However, I don't understand the statistics behind these two Preamps so I can't compare them so I don't know if it is actually better. Which would you buy?

[Axon]

Just based on the numbers, I'd choose the Pro-Ject due to its MC support, lower noise floor, and lower distortion. The USB support is nice. But I'm also not a fan of tubes and I have no knowledge at all about those products beyond what's on those two links.

[TheSneakerDude]

I found statistics for the Preamps

http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Phono...mp;category=401


http://www.needledoctor.com/Bellari-VP130-...mp;category=401

[pdq]

Just based on the numbers, I'd choose the Pro-Ject due to its MC support, lower noise floor, and lower distortion. The USB support is nice. But I'm also not a fan of tubes and I have no knowledge at all about those products beyond what's on those two links.

The only down sides of tubes in preamps are things like size, power consumption, heat, etc. There is no reason that you couldn't make an excellent preamp with tubes.

The reason that tubes are undesairable in a power amp has more to do with the transformer that must be used in the output stage and the resultant distortion.

[dodog]

I've heard good things about the TCC TC-750LC and it's only $49 + shipping. I have no experience with these, however, and perhaps someone else can chime in as to why not to use one of these. I'd defer to pdf and Axon, however, as they both have more experience in this field.

[DVDdoug]

WARNING - I'M BIASED AGAINST VINYL!

Would it be a better idea to invest in a strong cartridge and a decent phono preamp? Or the other way around, a decent cartridge and a strong phono preamp?

For example a $200 or $300 cartridge from Audio Technica or Ortofon, etc. and a Rega Fono Mini Phono Preamp ($145)?

Personally, I wouldn't spend $300 on a cartridge! You're getting well beyond the point where the cartridge is the weak link. No matter how good the cartridge, you're still going to get vinyl noise and perhaps preamp noise.

Perhaps I'd have a different attitude if I had a large record collection in excellent condition, and if I was in a stronger financial positon where $300 was no big deal... But, I don't know... To me, it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend a lot of money for an analog set-up that still sounds worse (more noisy) than a CD.

Right now, I'm in the middle of a vinyl-to-digital transfer. (It's a 1976 recording in poor condition, and a CD was never released.) I've spent a few evenings cleaning-up the "snap", "crackle", and "pop", and I'm not done with the 1st side yet. When I'm done with that, I'm going to add some high-end boost, because the highs are badly attenuated on this particular recording. With such poor "frequency response" on the record, a better cartridge would still leave you with poor sound quality, even if the record was in like-new condition. When I'm done, the most offensive defects will be removed or reduced, but there will still be some remaining noise, and I won't have "CD quality".

I've never owned a really good preamp, and I could always hear hiss with the volume turned-up. I don't know if a better preamp would push the noise below audibility. I'm a tube skeptic.
It's more difficult and expensive to build a good tube amp than to build a good solid state preamp. And, tubes deteriorate and eventually die. But to be fair, some people think tubes sound better, and some pro recording engineers prefer tube microphone preamps.

[Arnold B. Kruege...]

I've never owned a really good preamp, and I could always hear hiss with the volume turned-up.

Don't expect that to change, no matter how much you spend.

I don't know if a better preamp would push the noise below audibility.

Unlikely.

I'm a tube skeptic.

I spent almost 20 years in the days of tubes. I spent 3 years maintaining RADAR sets with about 400 tubes each. MTBF=1 day.

It's more difficult and expensive to build a good tube amp than to build a good solid state preamp.

And, you have to be more forgiving about what you call good with tubes. This comes you understand from a Conrad-Johnson tubed preamp owner.

And, tubes deteriorate and eventually die.

Do they ever. You've heard the stories about tube checkers in every hardware store, drug store, supermarket, you name it even electronics stores, right?

But to be fair, some people think tubes sound better, and some pro recording engineers prefer tube microphone preamps.

There's no accounting for taste, or the lack of it. ;-)

[Axon]

I own a TC-750 and it's ok. Its weak link is its power supply which is pretty terrible. If you're electrically inclined, you should be able to find a good 12V power supply and lower its noise levels by 10-20db.

[TheSneakerDude]

I was also wondering the name of the cable that connects your turntable into the phono preamp. Does anyone know its name or it this one
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3858 will work?

[dodog]

I was also wondering the name of the cable that connects your turntable into the phono preamp. Does anyone know its name or it this one
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3858 will work?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the connections just a standard RCA cable? Also, do you really need to spend ~$100 on these cables? Heck, you could get these from Parts Express for ~$16 (they have a 3 ft. pair as well). People seem rave about Blue Jeans Cables and their top-end pair is ~$34. That, to me, is too much, but to each their own.

[TheSneakerDude]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the connections just a standard RCA cable?

Oh, I thought it was a special cable. Thank you, I'm not planning on spending $100 on that cable, I have someone offering me one for $60.

[cliveb]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the connections just a standard RCA cable?

Oh, I thought it was a special cable. Thank you, I'm not planning on spending $100 on that cable, I have someone offering me one for $60.

Please don't spend $60 on a simple RCA interconnect. All you need is a decent quality cable that is well screened. It is true that the voltage from a turntable is significantly lower than other sources, so good screening is crucial, but any well-made interconnect should be fine. You should be able to pick one up in a place like Radio Shack for under $20. If you have any spare interconnects lying around (eg. free cables that came with things like CD or DVD players), try them first: they may well do the job.

One important thing to bear in mind is that you should route the interconnect between turntable and preamp carefully: try to keep it as far away from any mains cables as possible, otherwise you may get hum pickup.