iTunes tags gone after Replaygain Options

[TrNSZ]

Which AP version are you using? I don't know what version created your file. I don't believe the new one does whatever you think it does. Lemme know if it does and I will endeavor to get it accommodated.

This is with 0.8. No tags were actually changed, just rewritten using AP. Notice the meta count. From "0004" to "0000". This is surely corruption. All the differences are highlighted. You can't deny this. Thanks for admitting your mistake. This is the original version that everyone was complaining about, anyway. The code for 0.8.8 looks better now, and I'll see if the problem still exists or not.

Anyway, thanks for coming around, even if it did take some flaming. :-P

(Attached image, just in case my web server is too slow. What's with the other changes in the file? Who knows. :-P Anyway, please don't claim I can't compare or that things are the same. Let me test 0.8.8 now.)

BTW, thanks for pointing out the specifics, menno. I find it ironic the comments that are bashing fb2k are in the buggy section of the code. =)

Oh, the irony!

This post has been edited by TrNSZ: May 26 2006, 21:59

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[TrNSZ]

Retesting with latest AP:

CODE

AP warning:
        Setting the [artist...title...album] tag is for ordinary MPEG-4 files.
        It is not supported on 3GP files.
Skipping

The latest 0.8.8 AP is refusing to tag the files generated by foobar2000 and the Nero encoder now. When trying to work with a standard MPEG-4 file (created by iTunes) and then tagged with ND and iTunes tags, and then modified with AtomicParsley 0.8.8, there are no differences.

So the version released 5 days ago, at least in regard to this particular problem is fixed - AP is no longer buggy at least in this respect. Unfortunately, all files tagged with the previous versions of AtomicParsley are corrupted if they contained ND metadata. I'd suggest that everyone who cares about ND tag coherency uses foobar2000 or the upcoming NeroAACtag to rewrite the tags on their files. This also should be a lesson to users of software like this (and the developers) to test their code out thoroughly before using it!

I still say this is a better solution than AtomicParsley, if for no other reason that it writes BOTH sets of tags correctly, but I'll not slam AP any longer in this regard. I still must add, however, that this kind of corruption (along with the "silent" fix a few days ago) combined with the bashing all over of the ND scheme it just happened to corrupt is highly suspicious to me. At least it seems fixed now.

So, can't we all just get along?

Edit: spelling/clarified.

This post has been edited by TrNSZ: May 26 2006, 22:30

[MelOFlow]

AP 0.8.8 actively disallows setting iTunes-style metadata on 3gp files. 3gp files are determined by ftyp major brand. If you want to tag a 3gp file you have to use a 3gp asset. If you have a major brand of mp42 or something like that, iTunes-style tags should work. There isn't anything in the 3GPP TS 26.444 version 6.4.0 spec to accommodate iTunes-style metadata - and so there is no support for it in AtomicParsley. The album tag will only be added on 3gp6 & later files. 3gp assets and iTunes-style metadata are strictly separated. For 3gp files, you need:

AP.exe file.3gp --3gp-performer "El Perfomerero" lang=spa UTF16 --3gp-title "The Title"

Here's the cli arguments I was asked to test with for location:

CODE

--3gp-location "Bethesda Terrace" latitude=40.77 longitude=73.98W altitude=4.3B role="real" body=Earth notes="Underground" lang=pol UTF16

The 'tags' fix occurs on Mar21; the latest rolled out release was just recently:
http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/ato...ey.cpp?view=log

I'm willing to crawl back under my rock. I will send the request for.... editorial annotations to occur up the line.

[=trott=]

Spoon, I noticed problems with tags too in dbpoweramp with your new mp4 codec pack. (which supports the new nero aac encoder.)
1) convert flac to m4a using -q.32 (edited options.txt for this)
2) when checking tags, foobar and mp4tag show nothing. tag&rename, itunes and mp4ip tools all show tags.
3) when re-writing tags using tag&rename, same result.
4) when re-tagging from scratch using tag&rename, tags show up in all programs.

What do you use for tagging? Is this the same problem described in this thread?

Also, not related to dbpoweramp, I wonder what happens (as described previously in this thread) what happens when you tag using the nero tagger or foobar, then load the files in itunes and change tags. Since tags seem to be duplicated, won't itunes show the modified tags but foobar show the (non-modified) nero tags?

On a personal note, I must say that this entire situation reminds me of 2 things:
1) the tagging mess that is id3v2. (admittedly this only affected me starting foobar 0.9)
2) the tagging mess that is foobar 0.9. (we are right and everybody else is wrong.)

Foobar is still the best music conversion tool out there, but its ideas of how things ought to be has me searching frantically for alternatives. Nothing suitable found yet though

[spoon]

My guess is the nero encoder writes a simple tag, we write an iTunes tag and fb will only read the nero tag rather than itunes if present?

[TrNSZ]

On a personal note, I must say that this entire situation reminds me of 2 things:
1) the tagging mess that is id3v2. (admittedly this only affected me starting foobar 0.9)

Then you should complain to the ID3v2 people. This exact same kind of complaining happened in the Linux community when KDE made the switch to TagLib, implementing proper ID3v2.4. Everyone is tired of hearing about by now... This is also what happens when everyone uses a broken implementation for so long, and people finally come around and do the right thing.

I'm really tired of hearing about this thing by now, because it's not relegated to just tagging specifications. It's been happening over and over again throughout the history of computers. This actually reminds me of the dark days before PC's, when all different manufacturers produced hardware for the S-100 bus, but often did so very differently. Different vendors hardware could end up blowing up your whole computer (by crossing a voltage and a signal pin, etc). IEEE-696 came along which standardized the S-100 bus - however, many old manufacturers often kept making their cards their way to cater to their existing customers. The standard was there, but everyone did their own thing anyway. In my memory, this was never really sorted out until the IBM PC/XT and PC/AT were released along with their their ISA bus, and everyone who made clones copied the system more or less exactly in this regard. =)

2) the tagging mess that is foobar 0.9. (we are right and everybody else is wrong.)

Exactly what tagging mess are you talking about in foobar 0.9? As far as I know, it's a "victim" of doing things correctly.

Foobar is still the best music conversion tool out there, but its ideas of how things ought to be has me searching frantically for alternatives. Nothing suitable found yet though smile.gif

So what you are saying is you are trying to find software that doesn't implement the latest tagging standards such as ID3v2.4 correctly, and doesn't have any problems reading tags that are completely broken. If that's what you want, go for it.

My guess is the nero encoder writes a simple tag, we write an iTunes tag and fb will only read the nero tag rather than itunes if present?

I expect that you will see a workaround for this and the duplication of tags by the beta release, which should fix a case such as this.

[=trott=]

Then you should complain to the ID3v2 people.

My point was: mistakes have been made in the past with id3v2, let's not make them again with mp4 tagging.

Exactly what tagging mess are you talking about in foobar 0.9? As far as I know, it's a "victim" of doing things correctly.

First rule of HA: any quality claims must be proven with evidence. Except when talking about foobar2000, that's like talking bad about the bible.

So what you are saying is you are trying to find software that doesn't implement the latest tagging standards such as ID3v2.4 correctly, and doesn't have any problems reading tags that are completely broken.

I'm saying that I want to find software which works with v2.3 tags when they are present, which works with v2.4 tags when those are present AND which tags mp4/aac/whatever files in a way which makes sure I can actually _read_ those tags in my music player of choice. I have such software. My post was not about id3 but about mp4 tagging. As long as foobar can not add cover art to files I will in any case still require an external tagger.

[TrNSZ]

Exactly what tagging mess are you talking about in foobar 0.9? As far as I know, it's a "victim" of doing things correctly.

First rule of HA: any quality claims must be proven with evidence. Except when talking about foobar2000, that's like talking bad about the bible.

I don't understand you here. Just as this whole thread seems to show, other people love to hate foobar2000 and blame foobar2000 for things, but the problem was (rather embarassingly!) in their software. foobar2000 is not and will not be the all-repairing all-debugging rewriter of buggy and broken tags. If you really want compatability, you have to support the standards. When it comes to the ID3v2 tagging standards, nothing is supporting the standards more exactly than foobar2000, and possibly KDE's TagLib. And the KDE people are bitching too. You can't win.

So what you are saying is you are trying to find software that doesn't implement the latest tagging standards such as ID3v2.4 correctly, and doesn't have any problems reading tags that are completely broken.

I'm saying that I want to find software which works with v2.3 tags when they are present, which works with v2.4 tags when those are present

foobar2000 supports ID3v2.3 tags when they are present and valid, and supports ID3v2.4 tags when those are present and valid. How is this not what you want? If you are having problems, you should give us some examples, but this has come up before, and the problem has always been corrupted tags.

One of the reasons people are so defensive about foobar2000 is all the misinformation and blame and general crap being thrown around about "foobar2000 problems" by people who have very little clue what they are talking about. Just re-read this thread for laughs. Alot of this information has already been discussed ad nauseam in prior threads, but people can't seem to figure out how to search. If you feel people here who have to support foobar2000 on their own time for free are often frustrated, you'd be right.

AND which tags mp4/aac/whatever files in a way which makes sure I can actually _read_ those tags in my music player of choice. I have such software. My post was not about id3 but about mp4 tagging. As long as foobar can not add cover art to files I will in any case still require an external tagger.

foobar2000 is probably the only program outside of the Nero tools that can produce tags that can be read in any music player, including those that support both iTunes and the ND metadata schemes. The next release of foobar2000 will likely use ND tags only when necessary to supplement metadata stored by the iTunes scheme when possible, thus further increading this compatability. This addresses the concern that `spoon` had earlier in this thread as well, regarding desynced metadata. When it comes to adding cover art, use NeroAACtag (which should be out Any Time Now[tm]).

Anyway, when it comes to compatability, nothing is more compatible than foobar2000 and this will only be greatly inceased with the next release.

My point was: mistakes have been made in the past with id3v2, let's not make them again with mp4 tagging.

Unlike the mistakes with ID3v2 tagging, the ND and Apple metadata schemes are not mutually incompatible.

Update: foobar2000 0.9beta4 is out now, and implements the MP4 tagging in a way that will not duplicate metadata across the Apple and ND tags unless there is metadata that cannot be stored losslessly using only the Apple scheme (such as per-chapter data, etc.), making the previous concerns with tag desyncs between different programs a moot point.

This post has been edited by TrNSZ: May 27 2006, 21:38