AccurateRip problem with the soundtrack of the movie "The Rock&am Options

[retrofreak]

Hello,

I have ripped over 100 discs and I didn't have any problem with AccurateRip. All these discs were accurately ripped. There's one CD which gives problems in AccurateRip: the soundtrack of the movie "The Rock". It's a brand new disc without any scratches, fingerprints and reading errors. On that CD, there are 8 tracks, but AccurateRip says that the first 4 tracks are inaccurate. I ripped all tracks 3 times to wav files and compared them with the DOS command FC (yes, EAC has a "Compare Wav..." option, but I prefer to compare each byte of a file instead of only the samples) and there are no differences between them. I'm pretty sure that my rips are perfect and that the CRC values in the AccurateRip database are wrong.

My question is: is there someone who also has that CD, and who could tell me which CRC values that CD has, and/or if the CRC values in the AccurateRip database are correct or not?

Some info:
- Used ripping device: a Plextor PlexWriter PX-W5224A
- Ripping mode: Secure
- Disc was tested with Nero DiscSpeed and it doesn't contain damaged sectors.
- The information log of EAC:

CODE

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 4 from 23. January 2008

EAC extraction logfile from 27. January 2009, 22:23

Hans Zimmer; Harry Gregson-Williams; Nick Glennie-Smith / The Rock

Used drive : PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W5224A 1.03 Adapter: 0 ID: 1

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction : 30
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : No
Used interface : Installed external ASPI interface
Gap handling : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Performing a test extraction only


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.00 | 6:26.34 | 0 | 28983
2 | 6:26.34 | 10:12.62 | 28984 | 74945
3 | 16:39.21 | 1:59.09 | 74946 | 83879
4 | 18:38.30 | 8:40.51 | 83880 | 122930
5 | 27:19.06 | 9:33.50 | 122931 | 165955
6 | 36:52.56 | 14:12.13 | 165956 | 229868
7 | 51:04.69 | 1:37.61 | 229869 | 237204
8 | 52:42.55 | 7:39.61 | 237205 | 271690


Track 1

Filename D:\temp\01 Hummell Gets The Rockets.wav

Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 8B92613A
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 3) [609F1A90], AccurateRip returned [130A1297]
Copy OK

Track 2

Filename D:\temp\02 Rock House Jail.wav

Peak level 97.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC A67B2015
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 2) [2D152EC7], AccurateRip returned [C8922362]
Copy OK

Track 3

Filename D:\temp\03 Jade.wav

Peak level 42.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC F46B5AC1
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 2) [FEC573B1], AccurateRip returned [FC96D327]
Copy OK

Track 4

Filename D:\temp\04 In The Tunnels.wav

Peak level 97.5 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC D1BFE637
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 2) [62D33820], AccurateRip returned [C44B5486]
Copy OK

Track 5

Filename D:\temp\05 Mason's Walk - First Launch.wav

Peak level 97.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC EDACD12C
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [853E0F8C]
Copy OK

Track 6

Filename D:\temp\06 Rocket Away.wav

Peak level 97.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC A56BA057
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [319119EB]
Copy OK

Track 7

Filename D:\temp\07 Fort Walton - Kansas.wav

Peak level 96.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 46A308DD
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [83D4102C]
Copy OK

Track 8

Filename D:\temp\08 The Chase.wav

Peak level 98.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 577A1F92
Accurately ripped (confidence 2) [DEDADF1D]
Copy OK


4 track(s) accurately ripped
4 track(s) could not be verified as accurate

Some tracks could not be verified as accurate

No errors occurred

End of status report

Thanks in advance,

retrofreak

Moderation: Encapsulated the log in a codebox. Please use this in the future.

This post has been edited by greynol: Jan 27 2009, 23:31

[odigg]

I have it. My computer is currently doing something that is eating up the CPU so it'll probably be a little while before I can post the CRC values. Check later tonight (US time).

I purchased the CD a long time ago (probably not too long after the movie came out) so the pressing may be different.

[greynol]

1) A confidence of only two for the verifiable tracks is too low to draw any meaningful conclusions about what is said about the tracks that cannot be verified.

2) You should pay no attention to the confidence given for the tracks that cannot be verified, since they could have easily come from a different pressing of the disc.

Have you tried ripping the disc with a different drive or a different combination of settings with the same drive (ie. burst mode and secure mode without the use of C2 pointers)?

Have you tried checking the tracks against alternate pressings available for that particular disc ID with CUE Tools?

I can understand your paranoia about wanting to use FC instead of EAC's wave compare, but to be honest it's completely without merit. A simple comparison of CRCs should suffice, but you should make sure to instruct EAC to use null samples in CRC calculations in order to minimize the possibility of collisions.

This post has been edited by greynol: Jan 27 2009, 23:26

[retrofreak]

@odigg: Thank you very much in advance for taking time to give me the CRC values of your copy.

@greynol:

Have you tried ripping the disc with a different drive or a different combination of settings with the same drive (ie. burst mode and secure mode without the use of C2 pointers)?

I only have my PlexWriter. I ripped the CD using following modes:
- Secure Mode (C2 enabled).
- Secure Mode (C2 disabled).
- Burst Mode.
All 3 modes have the same result. The CD is in very good condition and since it is the only CD that gives problems, I think my PlexWriter works fine. I am pretty sure that my rips are correct.

Have you tried checking the tracks against alternate pressings available for that particular disc ID with CUE Tools?

Actually, I never used CUE Tools, but I'm going to use it now to check for alternate pressings of the CD.

This post has been edited by retrofreak: Jan 27 2009, 23:57

[kornchild2002]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. It sounds like the rips in the AccurateRip database are either from a different pressing or they are inaccurate. I have come across issues with some of my rips and AccurateRip. I have the special edition of Korn's "See You On The Other Side" album. The album has the exact same material as the standard edition except it is a different pressing. dBpowerAMP was reporting a secure rip but AccurateRip said that the tracks were inaccurate with a confidence of around 20 something. The issue wasn't with my drive, the ripping process, or anything like that. The AccurateRip database just didn't have enough results of my pressing in their database. I had to re-rip that album recently and now AccurateRip reports that the album was ripped accurately with a confidence of around 15.

You should be fine so long as EAC reports that the CD rip was secure. AccurateRip's database doesn't have every album in it and even then you can't trust all of the AccurateRip entries. For example, someone has a scratched copy of some sampler album. They rip their album over and over again and submit the results to AccurateRip after each rip. Now AccurateRip thinks that the files, which are actually not accurate, are in fact accurate. Someone can pop in their pristine copy of the sampler CD, rip it, and AccurateRip will report back errors.

[odigg]

What Joy! None of the tracks were verified by AccurateRip. As I stated, this CD is about as old as the movie. It seems to be in good physical shape. I ripped it twice with EAC and once with DBpoweramp and got the same CRC values each time.

CODE

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 4 from 23. January 2008

EAC extraction logfile from 27. January 2009, 18:48

Harry Gregson-Williams, Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer / The Rock

Used drive : PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-108 Adapter: 0 ID: 0

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.32 | 6:26.50 | 32 | 29031
2 | 6:27.07 | 10:13.08 | 29032 | 75014
3 | 16:40.15 | 1:58.70 | 75015 | 83934
4 | 18:39.10 | 8:40.37 | 83935 | 122971
5 | 27:19.47 | 9:33.70 | 122972 | 166016
6 | 36:53.42 | 14:12.08 | 166017 | 229924
7 | 51:05.50 | 1:37.60 | 229925 | 237259
8 | 52:43.35 | 7:37.00 | 237260 | 271534


Track 1

Filename D:\Music_Flac\Harry Gregson-Williams, Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer\The Rock\01_Hummell Gets The Rockets.wav

Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CF8F239A
Copy CRC CF8F239A
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [51038684], AccurateRip returned [8C3E395D]
Copy OK

Track 2

Filename D:\Music_Flac\Harry Gregson-Williams, Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer\The Rock\02_Rock House Jail.wav

Peak level 97.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC D7260FA7
Copy CRC D7260FA7
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [E56C7138], AccurateRip returned [8DC5832A]
Copy OK

Track 3

Filename D:\Music_Flac\Harry Gregson-Williams, Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer\The Rock\03_Jade.wav

Peak level 42.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 4B668ED4
Copy CRC 4B668ED4
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [1A59444F], AccurateRip returned [4A0BBD87]
Copy OK

Track 4

Filename D:\Music_Flac\Harry Gregson-Williams, Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer\The Rock\04_In The Tunnels.wav

Peak level 97.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC ECDD829F
Copy CRC ECDD829F
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [BD5E3F12], AccurateRip returned [AEFEB2E4]
Copy OK

Track 5

Filename D:\Music_Flac\Harry Gregson-Williams, Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer\The Rock\05_Mason's Walk - First Launch.wav

Peak level 97.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 3F18FE8A
Copy CRC 3F18FE8A
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [75C54764], AccurateRip returned [7A5EE5F0]
Copy OK

Track 6

Filename D:\Music_Flac\Harry Gregson-Williams, Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer\The Rock\06_Rocket Away.wav

Peak level 97.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC FA1D0443
Copy CRC FA1D0443
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [4AD90179], AccurateRip returned [229A613C]
Copy OK

Track 7

Filename D:\Music_Flac\Harry Gregson-Williams, Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer\The Rock\07_Fort Walton - Kansas.wav

Peak level 96.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC BE3E5EF2
Copy CRC BE3E5EF2
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [89F3D556], AccurateRip returned [685B4995]
Copy OK

Track 8

Filename D:\Music_Flac\Harry Gregson-Williams, Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer\The Rock\08_The Chase.wav

Peak level 98.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC E413DA56
Copy CRC E413DA56
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 7) [AE93B179], AccurateRip returned [AC79A872]
Copy OK


No tracks could be verified as accurate
You may have a different pressing from the one(s) in the database

No errors occurred

End of status report

Moderation: Changed "code" to "codebox".

This post has been edited by greynol: Jan 28 2009, 02:04

[retrofreak]

I won't worry about it anymore and I will accept my rip as being accurate .

This post has been edited by retrofreak: Jan 28 2009, 01:17

[greynol]

For example, someone has a scratched copy of some sampler album. They rip their album over and over again and submit the results to AccurateRip after each rip.

AR has safeguards against this behavior.

This post has been edited by greynol: Jan 28 2009, 02:23

[retrofreak]

AR has safeguards against this behavior.

Could you explain this to me? When somebody rips a CD that doesn't exist in the AccurateRip database, how can, when adding the CRC values of the tracks on that CD, AccurateRip know that this rip is accurate?

[pdq]

AR has safeguards against this behavior.

Could you explain this to me? When somebody rips a CD that doesn't exist in the AccurateRip database, how can, when adding the CRC values of the tracks on that CD, AccurateRip know that this rip is accurate?

What greynol was saying is that if someone rips the same CD over and over with errors, the AR database will only accept the first result from that particular user/system. This will only enter one bad result into the database, so it will not look like multiple users have gotten that same result.

[Soap]

What greynol was saying is that if someone rips the same CD over and over with errors, the AR database will only accept the first result from that particular user/system. This will only enter one bad result into the database, so it will not look like multiple users have gotten that same result.

How does the database identify user/system?

[retrofreak]

What greynol was saying is that if someone rips the same CD over and over with errors, the AR database will only accept the first result from that particular user/system. This will only enter one bad result into the database, so it will not look like multiple users have gotten that same result.

How does the database identify user/system?

I saw in EAC that it's possible to submit CRC values of CD's. In the submit window, you can see a computer ID which will also be submitted.

This post has been edited by retrofreak: Jan 28 2009, 17:00

[kornchild2002]

AR has safeguards against this behavior.

Have these safeguards always been running or did they just start? The reason why I ask is because I ripped the Ozzfest 2007 sampler CD quite a bit of times (it was before I decided to go with a lossless format for archiving purposes). However, there is a physical problem with my CD. There is a dimple that only affects the last track. It is impossible for either dBpowerAMP or EAC to get a good rip of that track. However, after each rip, dBpowerAMP was submitting the results to AccurateRip. I think I ripped the CD a total of 15 different times. Anyway, I decided to borrow my friend's version of the album to rip the last track. dBpowerAMP was able to get a secure rip but the AccurateRip results said that the track was not accurate and it appeared that the confidence level matched the number of times I ripped the CD.

[greynol]

Have these safeguards always been running or did they just start?

They have always been running.

dBpowerAMP was able to get a secure rip but the AccurateRip results said that the track was not accurate and it appeared that the confidence level matched the number of times I ripped the CD.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. If you think the confidence level was from all of your previous submissions it would mean that they were all the same. If they were all the same, how would you have known that your rips weren't good?

Unless you managed to change your computer ID, AR only accepted your first submission. Spoon has either said or confirmed this numerous times.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=65142
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=62176
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=61468

This post has been edited by greynol: Jan 28 2009, 19:35

[kornchild2002]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. If you think the confidence level was from all of your previous submissions it would mean that they were all the same. If they were all the same, how would you have known that your rips weren't good?

Unless you managed to change your computer ID, AR only accepted your first submission. Spoon has either said or confirmed this numerous times.

No contradiction. I know my rips were not good because I could hear audible flaws in the song. These flaws came across and those annoying bleep and bloop sounds that aren't part of the song. That and dBpowerAMP was reporting that each rip was not secure. Then, whenever I ripped my friend's CD, dBpowerAMP would report that the track was securely ripped but AccurateRip said that the track was not accurate. I know that the track was securely ripped because dBpowerAMP reported it as so and I could not hear any audible flaws.

I did use different computers for this rip and they all reported the same problems at the same places. Maybe that is the issue here. I don't know.

Edit: it was only one song (the last one) that was problematic, not different songs.

This post has been edited by kornchild2002: Jan 28 2009, 20:00

[greynol]

I did use different computers for this rip and they all reported the same problems at the same places. Maybe that is the issue here.

...only if you submitted using 15 unique computer IDs and all the AR checksums were identical.

If dBpa is saying the track was not secure then I have an extremely hard time believing the second half of this requirement was fulfilled.

This post has been edited by greynol: Jan 28 2009, 20:52