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Ripping LP;s from my Pink Triangle Export turntable, [moved from General Audio/TOS #6]
braham
post Oct 26 2013, 13:51
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I tried to rip some LP's of my collection . I use Audition CS6 32bit for grabbing the sound .In my PC i have Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS soundcard. I grab the sound in 24 96 . When i turn the sound in max from my HAFLER SE100 preamplifier , & the stylus of turntable is up i hear a weak rrrrr sound ,which is present in spectral view of Audition
here is the screenshot... but i can't upload it to see what i mean..
I understand tha it;s about the ground cable of turntable but i can't fix it .I have no issue till this time
thanks in advance
you're my only hope


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Juha
post Oct 26 2013, 14:12
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QUOTE (braham @ Oct 26 2013, 15:51) *
I tried to rip some LP's of my collection . I use Audition CS6 32bit for grabbing the sound .In my PC i have Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS soundcard. I grab the sound in 24 96 . When i turn the sound in max from my HAFLER SE100 preamplifier , & the stylus of turntable is up i hear a weak rrrrr sound ,which is present in spectral view of Audition
here is the screenshot... but i can't upload it to see what i mean..
I understand tha it;s about the ground cable of turntable but i can't fix it .I have no issue till this time
thanks in advance
you're my only hope


Use some hosting site for that image. (example: http://www.imageshack.us/ (If you don't want to register there view the source code for the page when asking you to register --> find the last entry of your image file from there).

Anyway, you could try connect the turntable ground with the soundcard ground (I do it by pushing the turntable ground wire under the plastic cover of the RCA connector).

Juha
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Apesbrain
post Oct 26 2013, 14:18
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If you are using the "Rec. Out" of your preamp to feed your soundcard, try the "Out 1" instead. I had a similar issue with my preamp that went away when I did this.
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braham
post Oct 26 2013, 20:16
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That;s the link of audition screenshot

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/89hi.jpg/

Thank you for your instant answers
I try your advices as soon i can & i hope to suceed
Thanks alot
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Apesbrain
post Oct 26 2013, 21:06
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It can't hurt to try my recommendation, but that picture is not what I expected. Ground-related noise (hum) will be at a much lower frequency, i.e. 50/60 Hz and its overtones. That noise is at 12,000 Hz and is probably coming from a source inside your PC. You may need to use an external USB DAC to get around it. Another thing you might try is to move the Audigy card to a different slot, or remove any cards other than the sound card.

Related, but a little different is the possibility something else in the room -- such as your PC itself -- is generating electrical (or mechanical) interference that is being picked up by your cartridge. Move your PC further away from your turntable and turn off any other nearby devices.

I'm not clear on one thing: do you hear this sound only when recording or is it also there when just playing music with your PC switched off and recording cables disconnected?

This post has been edited by Apesbrain: Oct 26 2013, 21:22
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braham
post Oct 27 2013, 12:11
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Hello again ,
I think there are two divided issues,as you see in my 1st new screenshot (link below).
1.left on the screenshot is my attempt to open a new file on Audition cs6 from analog output (turntable) and recording with the stylus lift up
2. right on the screenshot is my attempt to record analog from cd

http://imageshack.us/a/img513/8414/ig2u.jpg

this one is a screenshot from opening a new audio file 24 96 & push the button of recording in Audition cs6 portable , from phono(turntable ) output.
three signals are one & his harmonics,maybe?

http://imageshack.us/a/img29/9724/89hi.jpg

is it possible coming the noise from vga card's fan,cause is in the previous slot? i try to change slot as soon..
My pc is two me far from stereo components(pre,power amp, turntable , eq, casette deck).the connect cable from preamp to soundcard is custom made from 2 RCA to 1pin stereo jack.
i can't understand where is the problem..
keep on helping...thank you

This post has been edited by braham: Oct 27 2013, 12:34
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Juha
post Oct 27 2013, 13:26
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Could you try recording using 16-bit/48hHz and ASIO?

Juha
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braham
post Oct 27 2013, 14:10
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http://imageshack.us/a/img834/5958/i5h2.jpg
this is screenshot of recording in 16 48,
only preamp is on ,the other components are off,
and i tried to change input from phono to cd (left to right) & back again to show you the different noise ..
The turntable is off & unplugged.
thanks for help
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Apesbrain
post Oct 27 2013, 14:40
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QUOTE (braham @ Oct 27 2013, 09:10) *
The turntable is off & unplugged.

By "unplugged" do you mean the audio cables are detached from the back of your pre-amp? Remember, having the turntable motor unplugged from power does not stop the cartridge from picking up environmental mechanical/electrical noise.
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Juha
post Oct 27 2013, 15:57
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QUOTE (braham @ Oct 27 2013, 16:10) *
http://imageshack.us/a/img834/5958/i5h2.jpg
this is screenshot of recording in 16 48,
only preamp is on ,the other components are off,
and i tried to change input from phono to cd (left to right) & back again to show you the different noise ..
The turntable is off & unplugged.
thanks for help



Did you try using ASIO (asio gives a straight path between software and audio interface)?

Also,

- plug the turntable directly into Audigy ... still buzzing?

This post has been edited by Juha: Oct 27 2013, 16:01
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Oct 27 2013, 16:06
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QUOTE (braham @ Oct 26 2013, 08:51) *
I tried to rip some LP's of my collection . I use Audition CS6 32bit for grabbing the sound .In my PC i have Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS soundcard. I grab the sound in 24 96 . When i turn the sound in max from my HAFLER SE100 preamplifier , & the stylus of turntable is up i hear a weak rrrrr sound ,which is present in spectral view of Audition
here is the screenshot... but i can't upload it to see what i mean..
I understand tha it;s about the ground cable of turntable but i can't fix it .I have no issue till this time
thanks in advance
you're my only hope


A little hum is an almost irreducible part of any vinyl transcription system. If you have to turn the volume all the way up to hear the hum, you're doing pretty good!
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[JAZ]
post Oct 27 2013, 17:07
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Arnold: Read it again.. it's not about 50Hz hum... It's about a periodic signal at 12Khz.
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braham
post Oct 27 2013, 17:43
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how can i try using ASIO?
I know ASIO as Audio Stream Input/Output but nothing more .
How can i plug turntable directly to sound card ?
i need a long (2+ meters ) cable with 1 pin jack to two female RCA , isn't it? and what about for the ground wire ?.
For now i record from an old (only on ID age) MAXELL METAL cassette , directly from deck output using the same cable to connect deck with PC & all is good
as you see on next screenshots

http://imageshack.us/a/img51/1374/j0r5.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img855/8444/4g66.jpg




I appreciate your help , so much , that i think that there's hope to make it. thank you
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Apesbrain
post Oct 27 2013, 20:00
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Good, you've eliminated the cable, sound card and PC as the source of the problem. (You don't need ASIO.) Unfortunately, you can't attach your turntable directly to your PC sound card without a "phono pre-amp". Here is an example of an inexpensive one. Your Hafler pre-amp already includes this circuit.

Besides, you don't yet know if the turntable is at fault. Try this: plug your turntable into the recording inputs of your tape deck and plug the tape deck output into your sound card. Put your tape deck into record mode and turn the record level up high. Now record the tape monitor output on your PC and see if the 12kHz noise is still there.* Cartridge output is very low so you may need to turn your software gain all the way up and/or amplify the recording afterwards in Audition. Try it with the turntable plugged into wall power and with it not plugged in.** It won't sound good but that's not the point; we are only testing if the turntable is the source of the noise.

*If your tape deck does not have a monitoring head, you'll need to record to tape the sound of your turntable then transfer the recording to your PC.
**Try this a few ways:
1) record 60 seconds with the turntable plugged into wall power and the motor turned on
2) record 60 seconds with the turntable plugged into wall power and the motor turned off
3) record 60 seconds with the turntable power transformer unplugged from the wall
4) record 60 seconds with the turntable power transformer plugged into the wall but unplug the power lead from the back of the turntable if this is possible.

This post has been edited by Apesbrain: Oct 27 2013, 20:11
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Juha
post Oct 27 2013, 20:26
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QUOTE (braham @ Oct 27 2013, 20:43) *
how can i try using ASIO?
I know ASIO as Audio Stream Input/Output but nothing more .
How can i plug turntable directly to sound card ?
i need a long (2+ meters ) cable with 1 pin jack to two female RCA , isn't it? and what about for the ground wire ?.
For now i record from an old (only on ID age) MAXELL METAL cassette , directly from deck output using the same cable to connect deck with PC & all is good
as you see on next screenshots

http://imageshack.us/a/img51/1374/j0r5.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img855/8444/4g66.jpg


I appreciate your help , so much , that i think that there's hope to make it. thank you


As you eliminated the PC as problem source, you don't need to try ASIO (if you want to use ASIo, just switch the driver model through Auditions device setup).

Yes, use 2xRCA(female) to stereo mini jack cable and push the turntable ground wire under one of the RCA plugs plastic cover (against the metallic shell there which is ground).
You can plug the turntable directly into Audigy line-in to test this (for to record w/o external RIAA stage, you need to use special VST addon for Audition to do the RIAA correction (if needed, you'll find one through KVR plugin database) and a gain VST plugin for additional +30-+40dB gain).

This post has been edited by Juha: Oct 27 2013, 20:33
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braham
post Oct 27 2013, 21:43
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i try to make an comclusion of the issue

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3237/73sx.jpg
I disconnent turntable from wall & preamp ,take it to another room , uplugged both ends of cable from preamp to PC make additions & here are the results
1 no cable connected , 24 96 rec
2 cable in soundcard
3 turntable in its place beside the preamp disconnected from wall & preamp
4 turntable connected to preamp with ground cable disconnected
5 turntable connected to preamp with ground cable disconnected but selected cd which is off(number placed righer than real,so area 5 is intouch with area 4, sorry for my fault)
6 turntable connected to preamp with ground cable connected

Thank you for making me think rational!
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Juha
post Oct 28 2013, 08:41
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QUOTE (braham @ Oct 27 2013, 23:43) *
i try to make an comclusion of the issue

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3237/73sx.jpg
I disconnent turntable from wall & preamp ,take it to another room , uplugged both ends of cable from preamp to PC make additions & here are the results
1 no cable connected , 24 96 rec
2 cable in soundcard
3 turntable in its place beside the preamp disconnected from wall & preamp
4 turntable connected to preamp with ground cable disconnected
5 turntable connected to preamp with ground cable disconnected but selected cd which is off(number placed righer than real,so area 5 is intouch with area 4, sorry for my fault)
6 turntable connected to preamp with ground cable connected

Thank you for making me think rational!


If your test 1 means that you have nothing connected into soundcard and result from test 3/5 is the goal (no noise @ 12kHz) -->

- try with ASIO drivers (1st w/o any connections and if it's OK then with connections, remember close all other input ports but line-in),
- try with onboard sound (1st w/o any connections and if it's OK then with connections, remember close all other input ports but line-in),
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gottogo99
post Oct 28 2013, 14:43
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Make sure that your PC and your preamp have a common electrical ground. If you can't plug them into the same receptacle you probably have a ground loop. Either plug both into the same receptacle; with different receptacles, temporarily disable the ground on the preamp and see if that gets rid of the noise.

Also, make sure there are no dimmer switches or fluorescent lights on the circuit or even in the same room. If there are, turn them off for recording.

I had all these issues when transferring LPs to PC. Cassettes are less demanding since tape decks have higher output than turntables and mine had ungrounded two prong plugs.

This post has been edited by gottogo99: Oct 28 2013, 14:44
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pdq
post Oct 28 2013, 15:31
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It appears to me that you see the 12 kHz noise whenever you select the output of the preamplifier, even when there is nothing connected to it. This says that the preamplifier is the source of the noise and needs to be repaired or replaced.

Edit: Just to clarify,I think that the source of the noise is the phono preamp section of the Hafler, but you should try one more test. Short both inputs to the phono inputs and see if you still see the noise.

Edit 2: I see from the schematic that the phono preamp section is an optional plugin, with optional plugins for loading the cartridge. Make sure that the connectors are all well seated and that the correct load for your cartridge is selected. Contact cleaner can help if the contacts have become oxidized or corroded.


This post has been edited by pdq: Oct 28 2013, 15:51
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braham
post Oct 28 2013, 21:06
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Thank you very much for your answers.
I also think that the phonostage of preamp needs professional check .
A friend of mine is a high-end professionallist , i try to call him for a check, may be .
when i have something new , i post it .
till then, when i have some time i try all possible causes (cables, state of connectors , premp +turntable + ground or without etc flurescent ) in cold blood.
Edit 1 I don't understand what can i try " Short both inputs to the phono inputs and see if you still see the noise"
i also check somehow " temporarily disable the ground on the preamp and see if that gets rid of the noise."

hope to suceed soon
Thanks
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