Changing Q10 to Q5-6 for use in Portable? Options

[powderific]

Hey all,

I am getting a Neuros Audio Computer to play my Ogg files on the go, but apparently there are issues (chirps and other artifacts) with quality settings above 5 or 6. I encoded all of my cd's at 10 because I didn't get the whole quality setting thing until after I was mostly done . I encoded using RipTrax version 170. So now I need to bring the quality down so it will work with my player (hopefully digital innovations will work out the bugs so i can stick with the high quality).

What would be the best way to go about this? I have heard that "peeling" is an effective way of shrinking the files without losing quality (in regards to ripping it from the origional vs. getting it from my current file). I also have read that transcoding is a good option, but that was in response to someone who wanted to lower the quality more drastically. What would be the most pain free and effective way to go about this?

Thanks

[sthayashi]

Unfortunately, there is no viable peeling solution. Luckily for you, being a semi-proud owner of a Neuros, I can find out whether or not the Neuros can handle -q 10 (not now, but perhaps tomorrow).

I DO know that it can handle -q 6 of GT3b1 without a problem, but they weigh in at about 220kbps, and not whatever -q 10 comes in at.

So you have 3 options:
1) Do nothing, and see if the Neuros can handle -q 10 (it should, but you need to update to the most recent firmware).
2) Transcode your Vorbis -q 10s to Vorbis -q 5 or 6 (I can help you with that if you'd like)
3) Rerip all your CDs to Vorbis -q 5 or 6 (using Exact Audio Copy instead )

Transcoding is generally a no-no, but in your case, I don't think you'll hear the difference. Transcoding won't sound as good as reripping, but that's not saying much since Vorbis -q 6 is pretty damn good to begin with.

[powderific]

Thanks for the quick reply, sthayashi. It would be great if you could let me know how Q10 works, as it would allow me to start re-encoding before it gets here so I'm ready. I had read on the Neuros forums that q6 and above were not that great with the current beta firmware. If it DOESN'T sound right with Q10, how does one go about transcoding? I would re-rip, but it would take a lot of time, and some of the cd's have been mysteriously damaged since I first ripped them.

(btw, I tried EAC and my computer spontaneously turned off during one setup step, im going to give it another go, but I am somewhat leary )

oh, FYI, Q10 usually is around 400 kbps

[sthayashi]

Like I said, I can test Q10 tomorrow, but as of tonight (for me) it's too late. Sorry.

For transcoding, the following is the best method I know of.

Download Foobar 2000 with the Vorbis Encoder diskwriter plugin. Configure properly (preferences -> components -> diskwriter. Select Ogg Vorbis under Output format, and adjust the settings to your q preference. Adjust other settings to your preference as well (formatting can be tough to understand). When you're done, hit save all and close. Then add all your files, select all, right-click, and choose convert->run conversion. Go do something for a few hours. Come back and enjoy.

[sthayashi]

Just did some tests with a GT3b1 q 10 encoded file. It didn't sound so great on the neuros, even with the latest firmware.

You'll have to transcode or re-rip. IMHO, it's okay to transcode if you're just planning on listening to it on a portable, but if you plan on doing more than that, then you're better off reripping. It'll save you disk space anyways, since very very few people can hear the differences in anything above -q 6 (some have).

Personally, for my neuros, I transcode to Vorbis -q 3, because I'm never gonna hear the difference while walking around the streets of this city.

[powderific]

Thanks a bunch sthayashi, I will probably just transcode it down to Q5 or so. I am still going to keep all my Q10 files on my computer (i have plenty of space), so I'll skip the hassle of re-ripping.

[Tang]

Hi all,
i'm an iHP user and I've just read on the iRiver board that the company will release a OGG peeling software because of bitrate limitation in iFP and iMP ogg suport...
Anyone can say more about this? I've previously understood (from Guruboolez on another board) that OGG peeling wasn't possible...
Have I misunderstood?

Thaks by advance...

PS: I've done some "peeling" search but i didn't finf anything about the iRiver peeling project... Althought i didin't wanted to make a new topic cause I wasn't sure there wasn't one yet...

Tang (newbie here...)

Bye...

[rjamorim]

I've previously understood (from Guruboolez on another board) that OGG peeling wasn't possible...

Peeling is possible, but there are no working tools for that (unless iRiver is indeed working on it), and reportedly quality won't be the same compared to what you would get encoding directly to the desired bitrate.

[kjoonlee]

I doubt iRiver is working on a peeling solution; the Korean term they mention on their site is the one that's usually used to translate "convert" into Korean.

I suspect they're working on a transcoder. (Yuk.)

[kjoonlee]

Their "Ogg file bitrate conversion program" is available right now at the following location: http://service.iriver.co.kr/pds/view.asp?idx=243

Yep, it's a transcoder. It decodes to PCM first, and writes that to a temp file with a .pcm filename extension. It's not gapless; 9613800 samples of Vorbis got converted into 9633128 samples of PCM. (I checked the filesize of the .pcm file.)

Sure enough, the transcoded Vorbis file has a length of 9633128 samples.

edit: it copies all tag metadata to the converted file. The encoder library used in the transcoding is the 1.0 reference library.

This post has been edited by kjoonlee: Jan 27 2004, 05:41

[rjamorim]

Yep, it's a transcoder. [...] It's not gapless [...] The encoder library used in the transcoding is the 1.0 reference library.

I.E, it's all wrong

[kjoonlee]

Yup, transcoding == evil!

I've just noticed they use the stock DLLs such as ogg.dll, vorbis.dll, vorbisfile.dll, vorbisenc.dll though. Swapping them with 1.0.1 DLLs from RareWares works as intended.

[Tang]

Ok thanks for the answers...
Someone have told about peeling software on the iRiver iinternational firmware..
He mistaken and i believed him...
Indeed a transcoding software is a bad thing... I have no doubt that the essential part of people ogg doenst' come from P2P... So they can reencode from the source...
According to babbelfish translation of the corean page about the converter next step is to allow CDA extraction and encoding at compatible bitrate..
Very likely the extraction wouldn't be the best... Most users will still use EAC i guess...
The software seems quite useless...
:/

This post has been edited by Tang: Jan 27 2004, 16:32

[de Mon]

Hi all,
i'm an iHP user and I've just read on the iRiver board that the company will release a OGG peeling software because of bitrate limitation in iFP and iMP ogg suport...
Anyone can say more about this? I've previously understood (from Guruboolez on another board) that OGG peeling wasn't possible...
Have I misunderstood?

Thaks by advance...

PS: I've done some "peeling" search but i didn't finf anything about the iRiver peeling project... Althought i didin't wanted to make a new topic cause I wasn't sure there wasn't one yet...

Tang (newbie here...)

Bye...

I would be very happy if it will be done (there are two iRivers in our family). I read those posts in iRiver forum and iRiver's post about development of bitrate CONVERTING program. But the word 'CONVERTING' (as I remember this word was used by iRiver) can mean either peeler either transcoder. :-(. So we have to wait and wait.


Edit:
Sorry, I am late.

This post has been edited by de Mon: Jan 27 2004, 17:46