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Topic: First vinyl setup (Read 8895 times) previous topic - next topic
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First vinyl setup

Hi Rafael here,

So I want to start on vinyls, only listening not mixing, and I have ZERO knowladge on them. Then i did some research and i decide to order this setup. Is it ok or is there something missing?

Pro-ject debut carbon
Pro-Ject Phono Box S Phono Preamp
Pro-Ject Speaker Box 5

First vinyl setup

Reply #1
please someone 

First vinyl setup

Reply #2
Are you aware of the various limitations and issues of the vinyl medium? If you haven't already, check out Hydrogenaudio's Wiki on Vinyl: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Category:Vinyl

I see that you contemplate buying not just the vinyl setup but speakers as well. Assuming you don't have a stereo to which you could hook up the turntable, you might wanna consider going for a digital setup first, simply so that you can allocate a large share of your budget towards decent speakers. (A decent digital audio player can be had a lot cheaper than a decent turntable.)

First vinyl setup

Reply #3

The speakers don't have power amplifiers so you'll need an amp between the preamp and speakers.

I just hope after the money you're throwing at LPs you're happy with the results. I was happy to abandon 'vinyl' in the early '80s. I heard my first digital audio in June of '82 and haven't looked back. There are those who swear by vinyl and others who swear at it. I'm in the latter group.

Good luck


First vinyl setup

Reply #4
Quote
... is there something missing?
Like Glen said, you're missing the amplifier (and the "control center").  There is typically a receiver (example) at the center of a home stereo system (or home theater system).  In the old days receivers had built-in phono preamps, but modern receivers generally do not.

The receiver powers the speakers, allows you to select from various inputs (turntable, CD Player, DVD player, TV), gives you volume and tone controls, etc.

Quote
Is it ok...?
I don't know anything about these particular components, but for the turntable & cartridge, I'd say the price is about in the "sweet spot", where spending a lot more money will give you little or no real sound improvement, and spending a lot less will get you worse sound quality.

I'd look for a cheaper phono preamp.  You should be able to get something for around $50 USD, or maybe less.    The preamp simply needs to amplify the signal with a minimum amount of noise (hum & hiss) and apply the RIAA equalization curve.  That's cheap & easy to do with modern electronics.  (Most of the cost is packaging, marketing, and distribution.)  If you feel the noise is unacceptable, you can upgrade later.

You can find turntables with a built-in phono preamp, and this could save you some money (and simplify your setup).  USB turntables have a preamp built-in, os most also have optional line-level analog outputs.  But you have to be careful, because there some really cheap USB turntables.

For speakers, I always recommend that people go to a store and LISTEN.    Even if you don't buy from the retail store, you'll learn a LOT more by listening to speakers than by listening to advice.  Every speaker sounds different, speaker specs are generally useless, and opinions & preferences vary.  You could spend more on speakers and improve the sound a lot.  But, that's a matter of personal taste and personal budget.




BTW - I'm not a fan if vinyl either!    I grew-up with records, and the "snap" "crackle" and "pop" always drove me freekin' nuts.  And, I was always either upgrading or wanting to upgrade (usually with a better/different phono cartridge).    After I got my 1st CD player and converted to CDs, I never felt the need to upgrade the input-side, and I only upgraded my speakers.

First vinyl setup

Reply #5
Quote
... is there something missing?
Like Glen said, you're missing the amplifier (and the "control center").  There is typically a receiver (example) at the center of a home stereo system (or home theater system).  In the old days receivers had built-in phono preamps, but modern receivers generally do not.

The receiver powers the speakers, allows you to select from various inputs (turntable, CD Player, DVD player, TV), gives you volume and tone controls, etc.

Quote
Is it ok...?
I don't know anything about these particular components, but for the turntable & cartridge, I'd say the price is about in the "sweet spot", where spending a lot more money will give you little or no real sound improvement, and spending a lot less will get you worse sound quality.

I'd look for a cheaper phono preamp.  You should be able to get something for around $50 USD, or maybe less.    The preamp simply needs to amplify the signal with a minimum amount of noise (hum & hiss) and apply the RIAA equalization curve.  That's cheap & easy to do with modern electronics.  (Most of the cost is packaging, marketing, and distribution.)  If you feel the noise is unacceptable, you can upgrade later.

You can find turntables with a built-in phono preamp, and this could save you some money (and simplify your setup).  USB turntables have a preamp built-in, os most also have optional line-level analog outputs.  But you have to be careful, because there some really cheap USB turntables.

For speakers, I always recommend that people go to a store and LISTEN.    Even if you don't buy from the retail store, you'll learn a LOT more by listening to speakers than by listening to advice.  Every speaker sounds different, speaker specs are generally useless, and opinions & preferences vary.  You could spend more on speakers and improve the sound a lot.  But, that's a matter of personal taste and personal budget.




BTW - I'm not a fan if vinyl either!    I grew-up with records, and the "snap" "crackle" and "pop" always drove me freekin' nuts.  And, I was always either upgrading or wanting to upgrade (usually with a better/different phono cartridge).    After I got my 1st CD player and converted to CDs, I never felt the need to upgrade the input-side, and I only upgraded my speakers.


thaks for the answers, and which is a good preamp for around that price?

First vinyl setup

Reply #6
The Pro-Ject Debut line is pretty decent for the cost. You won't find many new turntables at that price-point that will match it...maybe a Rega RP-1. I had the last-gen Debut III and it was alright. It had a bit more rumble than I cared to hear but nothing to tear ones hair out over. The good news is is that, if you feel the need to upgrade, it's an easy sell on Craigslist.

I personally like Cambridge Audio for pre-amps but the Pro-Ject Phono Box MM will run you a lot less than that.

If you can find a good used Technics SL-1200 like I did, then I feel you'll never be itchy to get something else. It's a direct drive and you can forget about speed-variations or the typical wow and flutter that can be noticeable with some belt-driven TTs like the Pro-Jects.

Get yourself a good carbon-fibre brush for your records. Don't cheap out because you don't want some PoS that will leave the fibres on your records.

One thing I've noticed: many of today's limited-pressing records don't have the quality control that records used to have in the eighties. Some of my best-sounding and quietest records are ones I found for three dollars or less in resale stores; eighties original pressings from hard rock and metal bands that weren't thrashed by idiot-users with crappy TTs. ...something to think about.
The Loudness War is over. Now it's a hopeless occupation.

First vinyl setup

Reply #7
Quote
One thing I've noticed: many of today's limited-pressing records don't have the quality control that records used to have in the eighties.
I didn't know that!  ...I haven't purchased any vinyl since I got my  1st CD player (sometime in the 80s).  I had assumed the quality had improved, since people's expectations are higher after getting used to CDs & MP3s.

I guess that means the 80s were the high point.  It was hit-or-miss in the 60s & 70s with most albums sounding mediocre with a few gems here and there.  (Fleetwood Mac LPs always sounded "super clean".)  They did seem to get more consistent near the end of the vinyl era.  But even though the  "average" LP was getting better, great sounding records were still rare, at least in the rock/popular genre.  I think classical albums generally had better quality, but I didn't personally own any classical.

First vinyl setup

Reply #8
I had assumed the quality had improved, since people's expectations are higher after getting used to CDs & MP3s.

I would conjecture the opposite. Basically, despite occasional revivals, the vinyl industry has been in decline for most of the last 30 years. Consequently, most pressing plants closed and most workers were laid off.

As an economist, I expect this to have two consequences. One, investment goods producers stopped carrying or developing equipment for the vinyl manufacturing industry. Thus, I conjecture that the remaining pressing plants use technology that is several decades old. They probably even have difficulties finding replacement parts for repairs. Two, there is a dramatic loss in vinyl industry specific human capital. Workers at the pressing plants retire and by-and-large aren't replaced by a new generation. And since no investment goods are sold, there's hardly any R&D being done on vinyl manufacturing.

First vinyl setup

Reply #9
I guess that means the 80s were the high point.

My recollection is different. I worked in the record department of WHSmith in the early 1970s, and pressing quality was pretty good in the early days. However, after the oil crisis in 1973, quality of pop/rock LPs took a real nose-dive. The number of faulty returns we had went up significantly. (Classical held up pretty well). I don't recall things improving significantly in subsequent years (although I stopped working there in 1977, so can only go by my own purchases after then).

First vinyl setup

Reply #10
"vinyls" 

First vinyl setup

Reply #11
Not many quality 2nd hand Technics decks about these days either. They have mostly been recked by wanna a be DJ's. Who in the process of wrecking decks, wrecked vinyl as well. 

First vinyl setup

Reply #12
I'm kind of curious about something along these lines too - I'm not sure I'm going to go vinyl, I doubt it, but I have spent the last couple days reading up on it.

PRO-JECT - DEBUT III as shown at Amazon - I don't see a dust cover in any of their images nor mentioned.

Does an almost $400 turntable really not have a dust cover to protect the surface and cartridge when it is not in use?

When I was young, if I left the dust cover off the record player when not in use, my was I in trouble, so it seems odd to me not to see one on such a pricey unit - especially when the cheaper ones mostly do have one.

-=-

Over the last 10 years I have bought some vinyl, some that were never released as CD that I intend to pay to have transferred and some that I bought just for the beautiful cover art.
I'm not sure I want a player though, looks like decent quality is expensive for something I would only occassionally use. But if I did and I was looking at Pro-Ject line like the OP, I'd make sure it either was in a cabinet with closing doors or had a dust cover, even if just a plastic box to put over it when not in use. Especially if you have cats, don't want cat hair getting into the moving parts.

First vinyl setup

Reply #13
If you can find a good used Technics SL-1200 like I did, then I feel you'll never be itchy to get something else. It's a direct drive and you can forget about speed-variations or the typical wow and flutter that can be noticeable with some belt-driven TTs like the Pro-Jects.

A hearty "+1" on that SL1200 recommendation. Turns out that Technics really did have the whole rumble, wow and flutter business figured out by the 1970s! (Oh the years I wasted fussing with a Scottish belt-drive TT which shall not be named  The Mk II is probably the best pick. Mk I didn't spec as well, and Mk III onwards added more DJ-friendly features which are of no particular value for ordinary music playback. The stock tonearm should be a fine match for a cartridge like the Ortofon OM5E.

First vinyl setup

Reply #14
If you can find a good used Technics SL-1200 like I did, then I feel you'll never be itchy to get something else. It's a direct drive and you can forget about speed-variations or the typical wow and flutter that can be noticeable with some belt-driven TTs like the Pro-Jects.

A hearty "+1" on that SL1200 recommendation. Turns out that Technics really did have the whole rumble, wow and flutter business figured out by the 1970s! (Oh the years I wasted fussing with a Scottish belt-drive TT which shall not be named  The Mk II is probably the best pick. Mk I didn't spec as well, and Mk III onwards added more DJ-friendly features which are of no particular value for ordinary music playback. The stock tonearm should be a fine match for a cartridge like the Ortofon OM5E.

There seems to be a recent trend for using Technics decks as the basis for modified projects. The turntable itself is a fine, solidly-built bit of kit, but the general view is that with a Rega/SME tonearm and a cartridge optimised for music replay rather than one beefed up for scratching, you will have a great deck and great value for money.

And Technics made loads and loads of them, so if the first one you find looks a bit abused, hold on to your cash and look for another.