best settings for 128kbps VBR |
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best settings for 128kbps VBR |
 Jan 15 2005, 20:59
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#1
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Group: Members Posts: 229 Joined: 29-December 03 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 10785  |
I'm trying to squeeze the best possible quality out of a 128kbps mp3
so far i've been using "-V 5 -h" with Lame 3.96.1 i wasn't sure about the -h, should i use it? and is there anything else i should add? These will be streaming off a webserver, that's why i need them to be 128kbps (or close to that since i prefer VBR) This post has been edited by rudefyet: Jan 15 2005, 21:10 |
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Jan 15 2005, 21:15
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#2
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 Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 676 Joined: 5-June 02 From: New York Member No.: 2224 |
For ~ 128kbps VBR, the general consensus has been to use "-V5 --athaa-sensitivity 1" with LAME 3.95.1 or higher. The ATH adjustment was found to result in less warbling/phasing, but may raise the bitrate a little bit.
The -h is redundant and therefore not needed. |
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Jan 15 2005, 21:48
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#3
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Group: Members Posts: 229 Joined: 29-December 03 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 10785 |
thanks
the reason i was worrying about using "-h" which is the same as -q2, cause without it, the encoder uses -q3 instead so are you saying theres no difference between the two? This post has been edited by rudefyet: Jan 15 2005, 21:49 |
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Jan 15 2005, 21:52
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#4
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Group: Members Posts: 92 Joined: 18-November 04 From: Germany Member No.: 18211 |
So "-V5 --athaa-sensitivity 1" is better than "--preset 128 --athaa-sensitivity 1"?
I don't know it at all. I would use "-V5 --athaa-sensitivity 1" but I don't know. /edit: So at those bitrates is it better to use VBR instead ABR? I just don't know. This post has been edited by darky: Jan 15 2005, 21:54 -------------------- portable: 128 kbps cbr AAC
local: -7 FLAC |
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Jan 15 2005, 22:03
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#5
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Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 676 Joined: 5-June 02 From: New York Member No.: 2224 |
QUOTE (rudefyet @ Jan 15 2005, 03:48 PM) thanks the reason i was worrying about using "-h" which is the same as -q2, cause without it, the encoder uses -q3 instead so are you saying theres no difference between the two?  From about 3.94 or 3.95 onward, the default "high-quality" setting is -q3, not -q2. As far as I know, there is not yet been any evidence to show that lower -q values bring higher quality, so just stick with the default. -q0-q2 also take longer to encode, which isn't worth it considering the aformentioned lack of evidence. |
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Jan 15 2005, 22:39
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#6
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Group: Members Posts: 1361 Joined: 25-November 02 Member No.: 3873 |
QUOTE (darky @ Jan 15 2005, 12:52 PM) So "-V5 --athaa-sensitivity 1" is better than "--preset 128 --athaa-sensitivity 1"? I don't know it at all. I would use "-V5 --athaa-sensitivity 1" but I don't know. /edit: So at those bitrates is it better to use VBR instead ABR? I just don't know. personally, I think that there is no need for CBR/ABR anymore because of the VBR presets aka -V2 etc. Anyway, -V5 should be better... -------------------- --alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo' |
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Jan 16 2005, 05:04
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#7
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Group: Members Posts: 229 Joined: 29-December 03 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 10785 |
thanks for the help
but i was also wondering...does the prefrence of "--athaa-sensitivity 1" apply to all bitrates or just a certain range? |
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Jan 16 2005, 07:42
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#8
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Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 9-January 05 Member No.: 18950 |
Hello
I just finished encoding about 150 songs with the "-V5 --athaa-sensitivity 1" (3.96.1 ) setting. I'm happy. I found this preferable to "--alt-preset 128" (3.90.3) for my needs. I also noticed that when I tried "-V4 --athaa-sensitivity 1" that the file sizes jumped up quite a bit. I too am not sure when the "--athaa-sensitivity 1" should be used There is a thread discussing some of the tests recently done with VBR and lower bit rate encoding. I would suggest reading it as well. Regards Randy |
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Jan 16 2005, 12:56
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#9
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 Group: Members Posts: 915 Joined: 15-December 01 From: Germany Member No.: 662 |
QUOTE (rudefyet @ Jan 15 2005, 10:48 PM) the reason i was worrying about using "-h" which is the same as -q2, cause without it, the encoder uses -q3 instead AFAIK q2 from 3.90.3 = q3 from 3.96.1. Just a shift in numbers. |
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Jan 16 2005, 13:45
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#10
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 Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 678 Joined: 10-December 01 From: Belgium Member No.: 622 |
QUOTE (rudefyet @ Jan 16 2005, 06:04 AM) thanks for the help but i was also wondering...does the prefrence of "--athaa-sensitivity 1" apply to all bitrates or just a certain range? You don't need to use it at -V4 or higher quality levels. Look here for the explanation by Gabriel. You can also read that entire thread if you want more information on how we got to this. And for the people that didn't know this already: "-V5 --athaa-sensitivity 1" was also used for Roberto's latest 128kbps test, and it performed quite well (roughly on par with iTunes AAC): http://www.rjamorim.com/test/multiformat128/results.html -------------------- Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Jan 16 2005, 23:49
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#11
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Group: Members Posts: 229 Joined: 29-December 03 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 10785 |
offtopic from my original post....but is 89db the best setting for mp3gain?
cause everything sounds really quiet edit: nm answered my own question by searching around This post has been edited by rudefyet: Jan 17 2005, 00:25 |
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Jan 17 2005, 15:16
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#12
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Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 2-December 02 Member No.: 3959 |
QUOTE (Jojo @ Jan 15 2005, 01:39 PM) personally, I think that there is no need for CBR/ABR anymore because of the VBR presets aka -V2 etc. Anyway, -V5 should be better... Though for lower bitrates there still seems to be some issues with VBR: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ndpost&p=264990 |
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Jan 19 2005, 18:18
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#13
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 Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 429 Joined: 5-September 04 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 16796 |
QUOTE (rudefyet @ Jan 15 2005, 09:04 PM) ...i was also wondering...does the prefrence of "--athaa-sensitivity 1" apply to all bitrates or just a certain range? Good question... Anybody have an answer?
-------------------- Clowns love haircuts; so should Lee Marvin's valet.
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Jan 19 2005, 19:20
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#14
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Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 11863 |
>>personally, I think that there is no need for CBR/ABR
?? Are you kidding ? Think of streaming... |
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Jan 19 2005, 19:22
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#15
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Group: Members Posts: 1361 Joined: 25-November 02 Member No.: 3873 |
QUOTE (esa372 @ Jan 19 2005, 09:18 AM) QUOTE (rudefyet @ Jan 15 2005, 09:04 PM) ...i was also wondering...does the prefrence of "--athaa-sensitivity 1" apply to all bitrates or just a certain range? Good question... Anybody have an answer?that has been already answered in this thread (just a few posts above yours)... QUOTE (PoisonDan @ Jan 16 2005, 04:45 AM) You don't need to use it at -V4 or higher quality levels. Look here for the explanation by Gabriel. You can also read that entire thread if you want more information on how we got to this.
And for the people that didn't know this already: "-V5 --athaa-sensitivity 1" was also used for Roberto's latest 128kbps test, and it performed quite well (roughly on par with iTunes AAC): http://www.rjamorim.com/test/multiformat128/results.html This post has been edited by Jojo: Jan 19 2005, 19:23 -------------------- --alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo' |
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Jan 19 2005, 19:25
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#16
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Group: Members Posts: 1361 Joined: 25-November 02 Member No.: 3873 |
QUOTE (SirGrey @ Jan 19 2005, 10:20 AM) >>personally, I think that there is no need for CBR/ABR ?? Are you kidding ? Think of streaming... who uses mp3 for streaming? And what's wrong with a vbr stream? -------------------- --alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo' |
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Jan 19 2005, 19:35
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#17
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Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 11863 |
>>who uses mp3 for streaming?
Everybody. Almost You can stream not only a music, video+sound too. >>And what's wrong with a vbr stream? ?? The main problem is that it's vbr... |
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Jan 19 2005, 19:37
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#18
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Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 429 Joined: 5-September 04 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 16796 |
QUOTE (Jojo @ Jan 19 2005, 11:22 AM) that has been already answered in this thread (just a few posts above yours)... D'OH!  Thanks, Jojo... My apologies for the redundancy... 
-------------------- Clowns love haircuts; so should Lee Marvin's valet.
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Jan 19 2005, 19:39
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#19
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 Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 713 Joined: 8-July 04 From: Sao Paulo Member No.: 15173 |
I use mp3 for streaming. What is the problem with that???
 It suits all my needs plus works flawlessly (unlike other streams I tested)... VBR streaming works ok for me... EDIT: typo This post has been edited by beto: Jan 19 2005, 19:40 -------------------- http://volutabro.blogspot.com
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Jan 19 2005, 19:43
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#20
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Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 11863 |
>>What is the problem with that???
With fixed channel width, if bitrate exceeds it you will have a glitch... |
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Jan 19 2005, 19:52
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#21
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 Group: Members Posts: 170 Joined: 10-January 02 From: Manhattan Beach Member No.: 979 |
QUOTE (SirGrey @ Jan 19 2005, 11:43 AM) >>What is the problem with that??? With fixed channel width, if bitrate exceeds it you will have a glitch... Of course this totally depends on the underlying protocol. Most audio streaming now is done via TCP, which handles the flow control so VBR is not a problem. Of course TCP is not the ideal multimedia protocol, but that doesn't stop people from using it (its easy to use and is network-friendly). This post has been edited by freakngoat: Jan 19 2005, 19:54 |
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Jan 19 2005, 20:05
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#22
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Group: Members Posts: 1361 Joined: 25-November 02 Member No.: 3873 |
also, talking about 'glitches' in mp3 streams...at what bitrate are those streams usually done? I mean, even if that happens it's not that some one listens to some 320kbps stream...I'd say streams mostly use 128kbps or less...however, I can't think of any web radio or something that streams in mp3...and as freakngoat said, there's a work around to that...
Overall, I think that just a vbr mode in LAME would have many more advantages than disadvantages... -------------------- --alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo' |
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Jan 19 2005, 20:27
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#23
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Group: Members Posts: 170 Joined: 10-January 02 From: Manhattan Beach Member No.: 979 |
QUOTE (Jojo @ Jan 19 2005, 12:05 PM) also, talking about 'glitches' in mp3 streams...at what bitrate are those streams usually done? I mean, even if that happens it's not that some one listens to some 320kbps stream...I'd say streams mostly use 128kbps or less...however, I can't think of any web radio or something that streams in mp3...and as freakngoat said, there's a work around to that... Overall, I think that just a vbr mode in LAME would have many more advantages than disadvantages... Yes most streaming is done at lower bitrates for obvious reasons. VBR creates a variety of problems. One of the problems with using VBR in multimedia streaming is that if you are not using any flow control mechanism, and your bitrate suddenly jumps up above your maximum bandwidth, those frames will be lost (this has a profound effect in MPEG video streaming, since the most likely frame to be dropped is the I-frame, and thus all the frames received up until the next I-frame will be junk). Other problems arise when using a packet resend strategy (like TCP). Peaks and valleys in birates are not network friendly with multiple receivers, since more packets are likely to be dropped at a peak, and so more people will request a resend at once, choking off bandwidth for everyone. Luckily TCP has a congestion avoidance scheme as well, otherwise a "broadcast storm" can occur, where everyone is requesting a resend, but nobody backs off. If this occurs effective playback becomes impossible. What it comes down to is, VBR creates non-network friendly traffic with multiple receivers. EDIT: BTW there are lots of radio stations streaming in MP3. Also in my previous post, I should have said VBR is "possible," as I've just described the problems associated with it. This post has been edited by freakngoat: Jan 19 2005, 20:59 |
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Jan 19 2005, 22:09
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#24
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Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 713 Joined: 8-July 04 From: Sao Paulo Member No.: 15173 |
does these VBR drawbacks occur only with mp3 VBR or with other VBR streamable codecs (ogg, aac etc. etc.)?
anyway. i stream mp3 vbr from my home pc to my work pc and never heard any glitch... perhaps I'm just lucky. 
-------------------- http://volutabro.blogspot.com
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Jan 19 2005, 22:31
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#25
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Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 8-February 04 Member No.: 11863 |
>>perhaps I'm just lucky
Sure, wide channel, one transmitter - one receiver: no problems most of the time...  I think, freakngoat described the problem with vbr very well: QUOTE What it comes down to is, VBR creates non-network friendly traffic with multiple receivers. It couldn't be done better with one sentence  EDIT: QUOTE does these VBR drawbacks occur only with mp3 VBR or with other VBR streamable codecs That's the nature of vbr, not the codec... This post has been edited by SirGrey: Jan 19 2005, 22:32 |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 27th May 2013 - 03:55 |
