IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
foo_dsp_xfeed, Crossfeed
xnor
post Sep 22 2011, 22:30
Post #26





Group: Developer
Posts: 387
Joined: 29-April 11
From: Austria
Member No.: 90198



Thanks for mentioning it, The Link. Even a simple (and less CPU intensive) reverb model should help with externalization, which is what I'm aiming at for the next big release.

This post has been edited by xnor: Sep 22 2011, 22:31
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kumbbl
post Sep 23 2011, 13:12
Post #27





Group: Members
Posts: 55
Joined: 6-June 06
Member No.: 31522



first of all thanks for this very nice plugins - especially valueable for headphone listenings to quite old stereo albums like some Beatles stuff..

One question: what exactly does the sliders for EQ (low-shelf and Volume): In which situations they can do what??
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
xnor
post Sep 23 2011, 13:51
Post #28





Group: Developer
Posts: 387
Joined: 29-April 11
From: Austria
Member No.: 90198



QUOTE (kumbbl @ Sep 23 2011, 14:12) *
One question: what exactly does the sliders for EQ (low-shelf and Volume): In which situations they can do what??

The low-shelf can be used to cut or boost frequencies below approx. 1.5 kHz. If you get muffled sound with your headphones you can cut, if the sound is too bright you can boost.
Ideally it just sounds right and you don't need to touch this slider.

The volume slider adjusts the overall gain of the component. Turn it up to get some volume back but watch out for clipping (see #20).
If you use another component (e.g. an EQ) to adjust levels then you don't need to touch this slider either.

This post has been edited by xnor: Sep 23 2011, 13:55
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
jaro1
post Sep 24 2011, 12:59
Post #29





Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 22-November 08
Member No.: 62952



Thanks for commenting TB Isone, glad to hear your plans to implement some kind of room designer also. I still didn't have the possibility to hear xfeed, but i've a good feeling about it, first headphones DSP after quite a long time. I appreciate your idea and effort with this dsp.

This post has been edited by jaro1: Sep 24 2011, 13:00
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Fool_on_the_hill
post Oct 5 2011, 14:59
Post #30





Group: Members
Posts: 88
Joined: 30-October 05
From: Russia, Tomsk
Member No.: 25459



hello. Thank you xnor for another great crossfeed component. it sounds very much like foo_dsp_dolbyhp+dolbyhph.dll. don't know which is better... blink.gif
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
xnor
post Oct 5 2011, 15:42
Post #31





Group: Developer
Posts: 387
Joined: 29-April 11
From: Austria
Member No.: 90198



I always found that dolbyhp adds quite some amount of reverb which cannot be disabled afaik. If I remember correctly, it also colors the sound quite a bit and can/does sound significantly different.

This post has been edited by xnor: Oct 5 2011, 15:44
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
markanini
post Oct 5 2011, 16:18
Post #32





Group: Members
Posts: 535
Joined: 22-December 03
From: Malmö, Sweden
Member No.: 10615



Xnor, do you recomend having crossfeed turned on or off with mono material?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
xnor
post Oct 5 2011, 17:24
Post #33





Group: Developer
Posts: 387
Joined: 29-April 11
From: Austria
Member No.: 90198



QUOTE (markanini @ Oct 5 2011, 17:18) *
Xnor, do you recomend having crossfeed turned on or off with mono material?


Right now the component only processes stereo so you can leave it turned on all the time.

Maybe I'll add dual-mono crossfeeding in a future version. smile.gif

This post has been edited by xnor: Oct 5 2011, 17:24
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
jaro1
post Oct 6 2011, 20:12
Post #34





Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 22-November 08
Member No.: 62952



Finally i've had an opportunity to try xfeed and compared it directly with TB Isone. Crossfeeding fundamental of xfeed is similar to that of Isone, but a little bit smoother, without such distinct two step frequency roll-off, however this doesn't necessarily mean it's better or worse at this point. The biggest advantage of Isone besides HRTF designer is in perfect Room designer and Distance adjustment. These additional adjustments push Isone to the feeling that is for me nearer to the real speaker listening. If there will be some of these addons implemented to xfeed also, it could easily reach similar level of feeling, but for now it's a step behind, IMHO. On the other side, xfeed is natural fb2k plugin, what TB Isone will probably never be.
Thanks to xnor for this component.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
markanini
post Oct 6 2011, 20:51
Post #35





Group: Members
Posts: 535
Joined: 22-December 03
From: Malmö, Sweden
Member No.: 10615



QUOTE (xnor @ Oct 5 2011, 18:24) *
QUOTE (markanini @ Oct 5 2011, 17:18) *
Xnor, do you recomend having crossfeed turned on or off with mono material?


Right now the component only processes stereo so you can leave it turned on all the time.

Maybe I'll add dual-mono crossfeeding in a future version. smile.gif

I use the built in 'Convert mono to stereo' dsp before crossfeed. It sounds nice. Now this make sence if the mastering engineer monitored through stereo setup but I'm not sure about what it means for something like a >1960s needledrop or a mono recording of a solo instrumment (other than sounding like it's played back through a stereo set-up).

This post has been edited by markanini: Oct 6 2011, 20:52
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
jaro1
post Oct 12 2011, 19:31
Post #36





Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 22-November 08
Member No.: 62952



I wanted slightly revise my last comment in favour to xfeed. I fiddled with options, listened to many genres for few days and found a result i'm very satisfied with. Together with the fact it is native fb2k plugin with much lower cpu usage for filtering, i've decided not to use TB Isone at all, however i still think it is a step ahead. After all its purpose is for mixing, it isn't free (however its price is very low) and its processing demand isn't despite of optimization not the lowest, but no question it is a profi tool and imho the best crossfeeder i've used to this time (this is however highly subjective, of course).
On the other side, xfeed is imho much closer to Isone than other crossfeeders i listened to, if adjusted correctly.
My usual question as i use also wmp12 in some cases. Xnor, is there any chance to make xfeed also as wmp12 audio dsp MF Transform plugin?
Thanks for your work on this.

This post has been edited by jaro1: Oct 12 2011, 20:03
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
xnor
post Oct 12 2011, 20:21
Post #37





Group: Developer
Posts: 387
Joined: 29-April 11
From: Austria
Member No.: 90198



QUOTE (markanini @ Oct 6 2011, 21:51) *
[...] but I'm not sure about what it means for something like a >1960s needledrop or a mono recording of a solo instrumment (other than sounding like it's played back through a stereo set-up).

Sorry, neither do I, don't have such recordings. laugh.gif

QUOTE (jaro1 @ Oct 12 2011, 20:31) *
My usual question as i use also wmp12 in some cases. Xnor, is there any chance to make xfeed also as wmp12 audio dsp MF Transform plugin?
Thanks for your work on this.

I haven't developed wmp plugins so far, but if (free) time permits I will look into it.

This post has been edited by xnor: Oct 12 2011, 20:23
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
jaro1
post Oct 13 2011, 07:35
Post #38





Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 22-November 08
Member No.: 62952



QUOTE (xnor @ Oct 12 2011, 21:21) *
...but if (free) time permits I will look into it.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by jaro1: Oct 13 2011, 07:36
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
vittau
post Oct 28 2011, 20:36
Post #39





Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 28-October 11
From: Rio de Janeiro
Member No.: 94769



Thank you xnor, both your crossfeed and equalizer plugins are awesome! laugh.gif

I have a minor suggestion for the crossfeed: make a slider below ITD to adjust it directly by the head circumference, and make both sliders locked (changes to one them reflect on the other). Or maybe add a check box switch.
That should make adjustments a bit more intuitive and easier to do for most people. wink.gif

This post has been edited by vittau: Oct 28 2011, 20:49


--------------------
Vitor Machado
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
xnor
post Oct 29 2011, 09:37
Post #40





Group: Developer
Posts: 387
Joined: 29-April 11
From: Austria
Member No.: 90198



Noted. You're right. I think it would already be easier if the head diameter/circumference (keep in mind that this is just an approximation so I'm not sure if it a good idea to make this value configurable directly) was displayed along with the ITD.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
markanini
post Nov 9 2011, 19:17
Post #41





Group: Members
Posts: 535
Joined: 22-December 03
From: Malmö, Sweden
Member No.: 10615



xnor, Do you think your crossfeed works best with a Diffuse-field responce headphone or free-field? Or the hybrids in newer phones?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
xnor
post Nov 12 2011, 18:18
Post #42





Group: Developer
Posts: 387
Joined: 29-April 11
From: Austria
Member No.: 90198



Hmm I'd say that the reduction of stereo separation works with any headphone. For a proper location of sounds however the response is very important. The problem is that everyone's ears etc. are different so even perfectly equalized headphones would sound more or less right/wrong from person to person because the equalization is usually based on some average (dummy head). Instead you'd need individual measurements and equalization for better results.
A 30° HRTF neither matches the free-field nor the diffuse-field response, so the "optimum" probably lies somewhere in between.

This post has been edited by xnor: Nov 12 2011, 18:21
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
markanini
post Nov 13 2011, 01:10
Post #43





Group: Members
Posts: 535
Joined: 22-December 03
From: Malmö, Sweden
Member No.: 10615



Let me check if I understood your point, so headphones like Etymotic ER-4 which conform to DF or Beyer DT48 which confroms to FF would both be "biased".

EDIT: Did further searching a found this "nonindependent of direction HRTF"
Seems this is the ideal in-between?

This post has been edited by markanini: Nov 13 2011, 01:33
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
markanini
post Nov 13 2011, 10:48
Post #44





Group: Members
Posts: 535
Joined: 22-December 03
From: Malmö, Sweden
Member No.: 10615



Did further searching, the ID-HRTF above has one limitation in that it doesn't account for shoulders, the upside being that it breaks away from the abstract and arbitrary goals defined in FF and DF respectively. Found yet another curve that's an average of DF and FF:


Where does 30 degree HRTF fit in all this, is'nt that what the crossfeed aims to do?

Anyway, I'll stop here as I realize I might be cluttering up the thread. Just want to add that it seems quite difficult to find a reasonable compromise due to all these different design goals. I love my Beyer DT250 but feel they let me down sometimes for production work even with your excellent crossfeed and I'm faced with way to many options and discussions when looking for an alternative product. wacko.gif laugh.gif

This post has been edited by markanini: Nov 13 2011, 10:53
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
markanini
post Dec 19 2011, 23:31
Post #45





Group: Members
Posts: 535
Joined: 22-December 03
From: Malmö, Sweden
Member No.: 10615



Xnor, is the HF cutoff preset or dependent on other settings?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
extrabigmehdi
post Feb 3 2012, 19:09
Post #46





Group: Members
Posts: 401
Joined: 15-August 09
Member No.: 72330



Thanks, I found this component very easy to tweak , and the explanations quite good.
I compared with the redline monitor vst, it's not as straightforward and couldn't achieve the same result.
The tb iso prone sound too much like a reverb, and I hate that it reset itself when I use it with the vst adapter.
And for a reverb, I rather use good stereo IR with my favorite vst.

The default settings were too much for me.
Using :
ILD low : -5.5 db
ILD high: -19 db
ITD : 85 us

I don't know to which speaker position this would correspond, but that's nice & enough subtle .


I know a free vst "head-fit" that seems similar , but that introduces more settings, I copy/paste:

QUOTE
ILD LF means interaural level difference at low frequencies

ITD LF time is for interaural delay between ears at low frequencies in ms

ILD HF interaural level difference at high frequencies

ITD HF time is interaural delay between ears at high frequencies

F central is used to adjust the frequency between lows and highs


Unfortunately I didn't manage to make it work inside foobar.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
xnor
post Feb 3 2012, 19:33
Post #47





Group: Developer
Posts: 387
Joined: 29-April 11
From: Austria
Member No.: 90198



QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Feb 3 2012, 20:09) *
Thanks, I found this component very easy to tweak , and the explanations quite good.

Hey, glad you enjoy it as much as I do. smile.gif

QUOTE
I don't know to which speaker position this would correspond, but that's nice & enough subtle .

Well that's hard to say. Those ILD values are an indication of a wide angle, the ITD on the other hand corresponds to about 10° if I'm not mistaken. But since the ILD dominates with your settings I guess the ITD value doesn't matter very much.

QUOTE
I know a free vst "head-fit" that seems similar , but that introduces more settings, I copy/paste:

I also know that one. More settings are great but for lower frequencies our ear mainly evaluates time differences and above ~1.6 kHz mainly level differences are evaluated so being able to configure a different ITD for high frequencies doesn't seem important.

But I've noted it down on my todo/look into list.

Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
extrabigmehdi
post Feb 3 2012, 20:00
Post #48





Group: Members
Posts: 401
Joined: 15-August 09
Member No.: 72330




QUOTE
Well that's hard to say. Those ILD values are an indication of a wide angle, the ITD on the other hand corresponds to about 10° if I'm not mistaken. But since the ILD dominates with your settings I guess the ITD value doesn't matter very much.


Well, I still notice the effects of ITD despite my ILD settings. Anyway, I wasn't looking for a "speaker like" soundstage when adjusting the settings, just something relaxing and enjoyable.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
markanini
post Feb 15 2012, 11:42
Post #49





Group: Members
Posts: 535
Joined: 22-December 03
From: Malmö, Sweden
Member No.: 10615



I've compared head-fit to xfeed a while back. It seems to work on similar principles and exposes two additional parameters labeled "ITD LF" and 'F central'. I found it impossible to match the output between head_fit and xfeed. I'm not sure why. I'm guessing the 'ITD LF' corresponds to "0" in xfeed(?). I still wonder how xfeed sets 'F-central' equivalent, like if it correlates to another parameter or if it's fixed to a specific frequency. The first crossfeed for Rockbox (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11577) also seems to work on similar principals and exposes a setting eqivalent to 'F central' labelled 'High-Frequency Cutoff'. Again I couldn't get the output to match xfeed and I'm not sure why. Frankly I prefer that xfeed doesnt expose as many settings as I'm never compelled to distract myself with tweaking parameters biggrin.gif All these implementations sound much more convincing than Meier type crossfeed to my ears.

BTW this might be useful to study for future room reverb implementations: http://www.ohl.to/about-audio/audio-softwares/the-final-cut

This post has been edited by markanini: Feb 15 2012, 12:03
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
YellowOnion
post Oct 12 2012, 01:01
Post #50





Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 9-April 12
Member No.: 98589



Do you take into account speaker distance from Listener? (inverse-squared law if I can remember correctly) it seems that center panned sounds still sounds like they are in my head unless I use settings like -3, -6, and 220us.

Unless this plugin isn't suppose to fix this.

I'm using AKG Q701's (http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGQuincyJonesQ701.pdf) if this is relavant.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

3 Pages V  < 1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st April 2014 - 04:26