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Resampling - Rounding Errors and Bit Depth.
zerowalker
post May 22 2013, 11:00
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QUOTE (Nick.C @ May 22 2013, 11:12) *
Try this sample - if you hear anything except dial tones then your playback chain is compromised.


I hear noise when the loud beep goes till the end.

Like

Beep beep beep ..... BEEP(noise around), until the beeping goes away near 2 sec, then all goes quiet.
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bennetng
post May 22 2013, 11:16
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QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 22 2013, 18:00) *
I hear noise when the loud beep goes till the end.

Like

Beep beep beep ..... BEEP(noise around), until the beeping goes away near 2 sec, then all goes quiet.


There are some pauses between the four long beeps. Is the noise continuous or only audible when beep sound is present?
Is the noise constantly changing or just random noise like what you heard in 13579.wav?

This post has been edited by bennetng: May 22 2013, 11:21
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probedb
post May 22 2013, 11:18
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QUOTE (Nick.C @ May 22 2013, 10:12) *
Try this sample - if you hear anything except dial tones then your playback chain is compromised.


This is also all fine for me.

zerowalker, what have you tried swapping out in your audio setup? I've had dodgy speakers/headphones create distortion and buzzing but only on certain things.
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phofman
post May 22 2013, 12:37
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QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 22 2013, 02:14) *
Well i do hear it;S
But itīs pretty hard, itīs like itīs at the back of my head.


QUOTE (Brazil2 @ May 22 2013, 10:14) *
The background dither noise which is visible in the original 13579.wav is about -100 dB:

So you can NOT hear it in the requested normal listening conditions.



I do not want to be abnoxious, but I am afraid this test requires blind listening too smile.gif
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Ferongr
post May 22 2013, 12:49
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QUOTE (Nick.C @ May 22 2013, 11:12) *
Try this sample - if you hear anything except dial tones then your playback chain is compromised.


I think I can hear the high-frequency content. It's a barely audible high-frequency continuous tone starting at the 70 ms mark that creates some kind of odd pressure on the inside of my ears. I'm not sure how to interpret the results. Is it the actual ~20kHz tone that I'm hearing or distortion?
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zerowalker
post May 23 2013, 03:28
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QUOTE (bennetng @ May 22 2013, 12:16) *
QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 22 2013, 18:00) *
I hear noise when the loud beep goes till the end.

Like

Beep beep beep ..... BEEP(noise around), until the beeping goes away near 2 sec, then all goes quiet.


There are some pauses between the four long beeps. Is the noise continuous or only audible when beep sound is present?
Is the noise constantly changing or just random noise like what you heard in 13579.wav?



When the high beeps starts itīs a contant noise until the last beep ends.
And this noise is very audible, i can hear it clearly on low volumes as well.
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bennetng
post May 23 2013, 04:07
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QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 23 2013, 10:28) *
When the high beeps starts itīs a contant noise until the last beep ends.
And this noise is very audible, i can hear it clearly on low volumes as well.


Use foobar2000, go to file>preferences>playback. In the ReplayGain section please set
Source mode: none
Processing: apply gain
Then decrease the volume of "Without RG info"
This should remove the noise. If yes, please report how many dB you need to decrease in order to remove the noise.
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zerowalker
post May 23 2013, 04:38
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QUOTE (bennetng @ May 23 2013, 05:07) *
QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 23 2013, 10:28) *
When the high beeps starts itīs a contant noise until the last beep ends.
And this noise is very audible, i can hear it clearly on low volumes as well.


Use foobar2000, go to file>preferences>playback. In the ReplayGain section please set
Source mode: none
Processing: apply gain
Then decrease the volume of "Without RG info"
This should remove the noise. If yes, please report how many dB you need to decrease in order to remove the noise.


Then noise is always there, but sure if i lower the volume it wonīt hear it.
But from those settings, i can hear it even at the lower -20db, but itīs very hard to hear it. But the beeping itself is also very low.

It makes no sense for me that you canīt hear it;S
Is it at those frequencies that young people can hear, and older people canīt?
Cause that would explain why i can hear it and you canīt (If my ears allow that frequencies, which i havenīt really tried).
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bennetng
post May 23 2013, 06:00
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Then it seems that you can pass Ethan Winer's test. Please go to his homepage and do the test following his instructions:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/dither.html

The test is only about dither, not related to the ability to hear some specific frequencies. Ethan Winer is a member of hydrogenaudio as well.
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zerowalker
post May 23 2013, 06:16
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QUOTE (bennetng @ May 23 2013, 07:00) *
Then it seems that you can pass Ethan Winer's test. Please go to his homepage and do the test following his instructions:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/dither.html

The test is only about dither, not related to the ability to hear some specific frequencies. Ethan Winer is a member of hydrogenaudio as well.


I canīt hear any difference between those test files, no noise or anything.
I didnīt hear noise on either at all compared to the dial tone and swipe test.

It seems i appears at very high frequencies, i donīt know if it comes from dithering, resampling, or just appears from high tones though.
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probedb
post May 23 2013, 08:04
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QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 23 2013, 04:38) *
It makes no sense for me that you canīt hear it;S
Is it at those frequencies that young people can hear, and older people canīt?
Cause that would explain why i can hear it and you canīt (If my ears allow that frequencies, which i havenīt really tried).


Like I asked earlier, have you made sure the rest of your audio setup is ok?
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zerowalker
post May 23 2013, 08:12
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QUOTE (probedb @ May 23 2013, 09:04) *
QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 23 2013, 04:38) *
It makes no sense for me that you canīt hear it;S
Is it at those frequencies that young people can hear, and older people canīt?
Cause that would explain why i can hear it and you canīt (If my ears allow that frequencies, which i havenīt really tried).


Like I asked earlier, have you made sure the rest of your audio setup is ok?


It should be ok. I donīt see anything wrong which should cause problems.
And it should if so, be obvious in other sounds as well, but itīs only in these "test" sound.

Is there a way to produce noise?
If so, i can gladly try to reproduce the noise i hear to see if you can hear it.


EDIT:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/gv4w78

Listen to this test.
For me, there is No Noise at all.

But if i change it to 16bit in Audition i get noise.
I get more noise with Dithering on then off.
And i mean Audible noise.

This does however not demostrate the noise i hear in earlier samples, but i need to know if you can hear it.

This post has been edited by zerowalker: May 23 2013, 08:25
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bennetng
post May 23 2013, 10:47
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I think zerowalker's system should be fine. 13579.wav is in -12dBFS and test signal.wav is in -18dBFS, that means 13-14 bits resolution in 16-bit. Also note that 13579.wav needs a resampler to playback directly as well, when the file ends there will be a fade out which can reveal the noise more easily.

zerowalker also listened to udial at -20dB replaygain preamp in foobar, that should eliminate any possible clipping and his test results in 13579.wav and 54321.wav also indicated that there is no audible aliasing.

At least zerowalker cannot pass Ethan's test. That's the most important point because no one knows the answer, except Ethan himself. In the past I also created similar tests in other forums as well:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=440943
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