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Problem installing WavPack Plugin Nero 12 Windows 7, official instructions are for earlier Nero or not applicable to Win7
Fleegle
post Oct 12 2012, 21:24
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I want to convert WavPack to MP3 so that I can play them in iTunes and on iPod.

I downloaded Nero 12 trial, intending to buy when I can get this to work. I downloaded "Plugin for Ahead Nero Burning Rom" from WavPack.com. The instructions say to copy nxWavPack.dll to \program files\Common Files\Ahead\AudioPlugins. Obviously applies to earlier Windows version.

So I translated that into Win7 to mean put the DLL \Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Nero\... because there's a folder there and AFAIK Nero does not use the Ahead name anymore. Problem: there is no AudioPlugins folder. I created a folder with that name and put the DLL in it, but it had no effect.

I'm guessing the official instructions at WavPack.com apply to earlier versions of Nero and earlier versions of Windows. I've Google searched for an hour figuring that for sure somebody else has the same problem--and an answer--but found nothing. I searched Hydrogen Audio for a solution and found nothing.

In theory I should be able to get Nero 12 (Nero Recode) to import WavPack files and transcode them into any format supported by Nero. Can anybody please tell me how?
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Dynamic
post Oct 12 2012, 23:55
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I think most of us round here would take the easy route and use foobar2000's converter or CUEtools in Encode mode instead (or indeed dBpoweramp) in conjunction with a LAME encoder for mp3.

For iTunes or iPods, AAC (in .m4a files) is also an option. These can work with nero's AAC encoder or can convert to a format such as Apple Lossless (ALAC in a .m4a file) so that iTunes can encode to AAC for you.

For ease of use in straight conversion, actually CueTools is pretty good, and it will keep your tags. So you could do one of these (and CUETools can also be used to verify your lossless WV rips against AccurateRip and CueToolsDatabase (CTDB):

MP3 via CUETools to about 160 kbps LAME VBR (V3) or use (V5) for about 128 kbps:
Drag or select WV files or folders to encode.
Action: Encode, Mode: Tracks, Audio Output: Lossy, mp3, lame vbr, V3, then hit Go.

AAC via CUETools using Nero AAC to about 0.4 quality level.
Drag or select WV files or folders to encode.
Action: Encode, Mode: Tracks, Audio Output: Lossy, m4a, nero aac, 0.4, then hit Go.

AAC via CUETools and iTunes AAC as required
Drag or select WV files or folders to encode.
CUETools Action: Encode, Mode: Tracks, Audio Output: Lossless, m4a, libALAC, compression strength/slowness e.g. 3, then hit Go.
Once all encoded to ALAC, drag onto iTunes. Set up iTunes ripping advanced options to AAC encoder settings you require (e.g. 96, 128, 160 kbps). Select tracks, Right-click and Create AAC version to convert to .m4a AAC files.
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Fleegle
post Oct 13 2012, 04:57
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Thank you for the reply. I'm seriously looking over CueTools... I really don't want to install foobar2000 because I already have too many players (although admittedly none of them can convert my files). I'm in a situation where I really don't want to install much more software because my desktop is stored away (as is my test system) and my laptop is my sole link to reality (there is no reality besides the Internet, is there?).

I'm really looking for a way to make Nero work because it solves other additional problems for me, and it did convert my FLAC files okay. I really want Nero to work. I'm frustrated because from what I read Nero used to work. I'm especially frustrated because I paid for Nero 9 and maybe that might work. Could I install both Nero 9 and Nero 12? (Sounds like a really BAD idea.) Maybe I should just find my Nero 9 install media and install that and give up buying Nero 12... (I'm about there but I'll have to dig really deep in junk boxes to find Nero 9... and maybe I purchased it online and don't even have a disc--but I do have my product code!)
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lvqcl
post Oct 13 2012, 10:16
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For Nero 10: this plugin should be copied to \Program Files (x86)\Nero\Nero 10\Nero Burning ROM\AudioPluginMgr\ folder. Maybe similar path exists in Nero 12.
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Fleegle
post Oct 13 2012, 19:30
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Thanks lvqcl. There is such a folder for Nero 12 so I copied the DLL there but Nero Recode still does not recognize WavPack files. When I try to open it I get "Near could not find any supported audio files."

I'm getting close to uninstalling Nero 12 and trying my old Nero 9. I think I can download the files and I do have my product key so I think that might work. Maybe might work.

I just hate installing more and more software because every time you install something it junks up your registry just that much more, and it's rare for uninstallers to remove EVERY trace of the installation from the registry. Also, there's always a chance that an installation will mess up your PC or be infected/infested. I try to avoid installing anything beyond the absolute minimum necessary new software.
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bryant
post Oct 13 2012, 23:06
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QUOTE (Fleegle @ Oct 13 2012, 10:30) *
Thanks lvqcl. There is such a folder for Nero 12 so I copied the DLL there but Nero Recode still does not recognize WavPack files. When I try to open it I get "Near could not find any supported audio files."

Sorry you're having trouble! When you put the .dll in there, did you notice whether there were other, similar, .dlls in there? Oh, and make sure you you didn't unpack the "nero" folder into there, and of course you have to restart the program after copying the .dll. I believe that there is a "plugin manager" somewhere in the menus that allows you to see all the installed plugins; it would be interesting to know if it showed up in there.

If the WavPack plugin really doesn't work with recent Nero versions it would probably be a good idea for me to know...either to fix it or at least make it known so people don't go wasting time like you have. Occasionally I answer e-mails about this, but then people naver let me know what finally happened.

Thanks!

David

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Fleegle
post Oct 14 2012, 19:29
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Thanks for the reply Bryant. Just to explain, I'm a software engineer and I've written DLLs myself, using VC++. Just mentioning that so you can aim replies at the right technical level. smile.gif

Here's the directory for the path where I put the WavPack DLL:

CODE
Directory of C:\Program Files (x86)\Nero\Nero 12\Nero Burning ROM\AudioPluginMgr

10/14/2012  11:02 AM    <DIR>          .
10/14/2012  11:02 AM    <DIR>          ..
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           241,048 APM_AC3.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           144,280 APM_Aiff.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           242,584 APM_DefConvertor.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           155,032 APM_mp3PP.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           606,616 APM_mp3pro.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           542,112 APM_MSAxp.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           237,464 APM_NeFlac.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           134,552 APM_NeroDigital.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM         1,295,768 APM_OGG.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           130,968 APM_Wav.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           198,552 AudioPluginMgr.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM               936 AudioPluginMgr.manifest
08/01/2012  09:20 PM             1,522 COPYING.FLAC
08/01/2012  09:20 PM            25,765 COPYING.LGPL
08/01/2012  09:20 PM             1,498 COPYING.XIPH
08/01/2012  09:20 PM           374,680 lame_enc.dll
10/12/2012  11:42 AM           290,816 nxWavPack.dll
08/01/2012  09:20 PM               838 README


It looks like it fits right in, seeing OGG and AC3 there etc.

I went through all the menus on Nero Recode and Nero Burning Rom and could find no "plugin manager." Perhaps I missed it or perhaps it's located in a different application.

Yes I did restart Nero Recode. Actually it wasn't running when I copied the DLL. Additionally I tried it again today with no good results.

As another experiment I noticed that Nero Recode has it's own folder at "C:\Program Files (x86)\Nero\Nero 12\Nero Recode" so I dropped a copy of the DLL in there, again to no good result.

Additionally Nero 12 is beginning to look pretty bloated to me and I'm starting to think along the lines of seeing if I can find the install files for Nero 9. Can you confirm that Nero 9 works with the DLL? In any case I'll report back if I can get anything to work.

I am going to get WavPack working one way or another here. The only question is what I'll end up using and how long it will take me to fix it. I've worked in software engineering for decades and I never give up! biggrin.gif

BTW I tried the Win32 command line WavPack programs too and succeeded in getting my .WV converted to .WAV but it was one humongous track not broken up into individual tracks. So close yet so far away... smile.gif
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lvqcl
post Oct 14 2012, 20:31
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Try Nero (not Nero recode):

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Nero\Nero 12\Nero Burning ROM\nero.exe" /Dialog:EncodeFiles
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Fleegle
post Oct 15 2012, 00:19
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QUOTE (lvqcl @ Oct 14 2012, 20:31) *
Try Nero (not Nero recode):

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Nero\Nero 12\Nero Burning ROM\nero.exe" /Dialog:EncodeFiles

Well we're making some progress. At least Nero didn't barf.

David, the DLL is located in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Nero\Nero 12\Nero Burning ROM\AudioPlugisMgr\" so since AFAIK Nero can't handle WavPack without the DLL this appears to confirm that Nero 12 running on Win7 needs the file to be located in that folder. That should help your docco effort.

I got the same result I obtained using WavPack Win32 command line version: one huge MP3 file without the tracks being separated out.

So being a hot shot enginear (I used to be able to spell it correctly) I read some docco and started thinking, and got busy with WavPack's command line version and discovered the following:

My .wv file does not have a cuesheet enbedded. I have the .wv file and I have a separate .cue file. That is an adequate explanation why I'm getting just one .wav file. So now I have the following conclusions, observations, issues and questions.

(1) Apparently we now know the correct location for nxWavPack.dll using Nero 12 running on 64-bit Win7 HP.

(2) I'm able to extract the .wv to .wav using either the command line WavPack Win32 version, and I've got a command line prompt to kick Nero Burning ROM 12 into a mode where it can read WavPack files.

(3) I've concluded that my .wv file does not have embedded cue information but I have the cue data as a separate file, and I'm optimistic that I can find a way to apply the two and extract the tracks. (I tested this using wvunpack -c filename.wv. "tag cuesheet not found.")

(4) Solution to the above may lead to how to use Nero 12 to extract WavPacks into separate .wav or .mp3 files. (I don't have a .wv file with cue information embedded to test this theory.)

So now I'm open to suggestions on how to get the command line WavPack unpacker to unpack the .wv file using a separate .cue file, and/or how to get Nero 12 to do the same.

An idea: Can I get the command line WavPack to input my .wv and .cue files and embed the cue information into a new .wv file with cue information included?


Once I get this thing sorted out I'm going to uninstall Nero 12 and install Nero 9 and find out if the product I already own can do this stuff. Nero's forum has been useless to me since I joined there and I've tried to post this topic 4 times. Each time I post the new topic I get kicked back into their main forum view, and when I go to the sub-forum I posted in the topic isn't there. I'm able to reply to topics so I don't know WTF is wrong with their forum but this shows my account is valid.

I don't care about Nero's forum. I've been reading Hydrogen Audio for years but this is the first time I've needed support so that's why I only recently registered.

Thanks for your help lvqcl.

This post has been edited by Fleegle: Oct 15 2012, 00:20
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bryant
post Oct 15 2012, 04:51
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QUOTE (Fleegle @ Oct 14 2012, 10:29) *
Thanks for the reply Bryant. Just to explain, I'm a software engineer and I've written DLLs myself, using VC++. Just mentioning that so you can aim replies at the right technical level. smile.gif

Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to insult you...I simply mentioned some problems/issues that other people had encountered (and to try to get some more information for myself). smile.gif

As for your other questions:

Newer versions of Nero may support cuesheets in some situations, but I doubt that embedded cuesheets will work with Nero because I don’t believe that their API allowed me to pass back the cuesheet (I seem to remember just artist, track and album title). What may work is to open the cuesheet with nero and make sure that the cuesheet points to the .wv file (the source file is one of the first lines in the cuesheet). That would be easy to try, but I would cross my fingers.

You could use the command line WavPack programs to embed the cuesheet. Since it’s lossless, there’s nothing lost by unpacking the wv file to wav and then repacking it using the -w switch (-w “cuesheet=@cuesheet.txt”). But again, while the resulting file would work great with Foobar, I doubt that Nero would recognize the embedded cuesheet.

Unfortunately, the WavPack command line tool will not decode a huge wv file to separate .wav files even if there is an embedded cuesheet. That would be a nice feature, but there are so many other tools to do that that I have not implemented it.

The easiest solution might be to simply unpack the .wv file into a huge .wav file (which I guess you’ve already done a couple different ways) and then use that with the cuesheet (making sure the cuesheet points to the .wav file). If Nero handles cuesheets at all, then it should handle that combination, and you should be able to burn or convert to anything you want. Or, as was said, you could use another tool.

Hope this helps, thanks for the feedback!

David

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Fleegle
post Oct 15 2012, 15:13
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I should have mentioned that I tried to get Nero to recognize the cue sheet and it would have nothing to do with it. Perhaps I'll embed the cuesheet into the wv and give that a try but I suspect that has little chance of success.

From your comments I presume you are the developer or one of the developers of WavPack. I suggest that adding file spltting/combining to the Win32 command line tools would be a nice enhancement and would allow the tools to be used independently of larger software packages. They are nice because they have such a small footprint. Speaking as a software engineer it doesn't seem to me that the additional functionality to process multiple input files into a WavPack wv file with embedded cuesheet, or process a WavPack file with embedded cue sheet to multiple output files, would be that much work. For people like me that would provide the minimal solution to get material in and out of WavPacks without any other software. It would be a nice feature.

I think I'll go investigate some other tools, and also consider kicking Nero 12 to the curb. I'm not sure I even need Nero 9 but I'm certain I have the install files on one of my NAS servers, which unfortunately all my network gear is in storage and the boxes are about 6-7 feet deep and close packed.

It seems to me that Nero 12 is more bloaty than ever, more dumbed down for people who don't know what they're doing, and gimmicked up with a bunch of useless features that most people would never use, just to serve the purpose of getting more people to buy the product by dazzling them with all the bells and whistles.

I have tried to start topics at Nero's forums several times but my posts never show up. BTW I worked on a forum open source project for several months writing code, so I'm not exactly a newbie when it comes to posting on forums. Right now I'm trying to decide which of these three is the worst forum implementation I've ever seen: WordPress (they hacked up WP to make it operate like a forum rather than getting vB or IP.Board), eBay (looks home made by people who had never been on a forum) or Nero (also looks like written by people who have never been on a forum).

Next job for me today: find lowest impact tool and process that will let me rip my WavPack and cuesheet into separate, tagged files. Perhaps one day in the future I'll look at switching to a lossless player.

--------

It's a bit off topic here but it looks like this topic is going to go no further anyway. I don't quite understand any benefit of lossless to me. Some years ago I ripped all my CD music collection to .wav and .mp3 files, using a computer I dedicated to audio and entertainment, and situated the computer next to my stereo. I put away my CD collection to a safe place. From then on I played the .wav versions of albums when at home, and listened to .mp3 while mobile.

At the time it was my understanding that the 44.1 kHz stereo 16 bit .wav files had all the same information as was written on the CD. I had never heard lossless mentioned at the time so I presume that is a recent invention (I converted my files about 10-15 years ago).

My ears aren't that great anymore and my stereo isn't top of the line anymore either, so I don't understand any benefit going to lossless. Also, I've presumed that my sound card D:A was the largest error source in the chain from .wav files to speakers, and I'm not aware of any great improvements in that area.

Once my stuff comes out of storage (which will be after I've purchased a new house) I'll be very interested in upgrading my system. I would like to get one of those micro PCs to sit next to the stereo and interface the network to the audio, and then my media files can reside on a network server on my LAN, and I'll control the whole thing from a tablet or iPad. (I've just in the last few weeks felt a strong desire to buy an iPad...)

So do you have any tips for me or any suggestions on where to go to read more? I'm sure plenty of people have done exactly or similar to what I'm thinking of doing. I will be better off if I don't have to reinvent the wheel.
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lvqcl
post Oct 15 2012, 15:56
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QUOTE (Fleegle @ Oct 15 2012, 18:13) *
I suggest that adding file spltting/combining to the Win32 command line tools would be a nice enhancement and would allow the tools to be used independently of larger software packages. They are nice because they have such a small footprint.

But why did you install Nero if you prefer small programs? blink.gif
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Fleegle
post Oct 15 2012, 21:10
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QUOTE (lvqcl @ Oct 15 2012, 15:56) *
QUOTE (Fleegle @ Oct 15 2012, 18:13) *
I suggest that adding file spltting/combining to the Win32 command line tools would be a nice enhancement and would allow the tools to be used independently of larger software packages. They are nice because they have such a small footprint.

But why did you install Nero if you prefer small programs? blink.gif

Because it was a great product. I bought every Nero version between 6 and 9 and had great results. I figured 12 would be good too, and I can access my old Nero 9 only with great difficulty since it's in my storage and may be under lots of other boxes.

I didn't realize how bloated Nero had become in the last few versions. Now I'm having second thoughts about wanting to buy 12, particularly since I've discovered that the Nero 12 trial is crippled, so now I'm worried to use it at all since I don't know exactly which features are crippled and in which way.
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Fleegle
post Oct 17 2012, 06:07
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Well I uninstalled Nero 12 trial and installed my purchased Nero 9 and I can't see that I've lost anything at all, or much.

I'm still able to transcode FLAC although the tags aren't coming through. They're there, Nero 12 copies a few tags as a teaser, Nero 9 doesn't get any tags, all the ID3 is blank. I'm getting the same functionality transcoding WavPack files, one big Wv file, one big .wav or .mp3 file. Clearly not the fault of Nero 9.

As far as the FLAC, I'm giving some thought to uninstalling Nero 9 and reinstalling Nero 12 trial, copy the entire AudioPluginMgr folder, and then uninstall 12 and reinstall 9, hoping to get the latest plugins working on the earlier Nero. Too bad I didn't think of that in advance. Anyway Nero 12 uninstalled fairly cleanly and I found only a few errant registry entries which I deleted. So I can probably try the entire Nero 12 plugin set on Nero 9 without too much trouble.

I still can't bust my Wv + cuesheet into separate tunes. I guess I'll probably have to install Foobar2000 to get a reliable transcoder.
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Fleegle
post Oct 20 2012, 17:10
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SOLVED

I hate topics where the OP gets his problem solved, and then disappears without telling how he solved it. Then years later somebody has the same problem and they find this topic via Google search, and read the whole topic and there's no solution at the end. So...

How I solved the problem stated in the OP:

I uninstalled the Nero 12 trial. They're just so screwed up that they give prospective purchasers a broken tool to evaluate. I had no way of telling if Nero would help me solve my problems when I paid for the product. They just lost a purchase.

Instead I reinstalled Nero 9 from the previous versions at Nero's site. I saved my product code from previous installations so it was no problem to get it going. I put the WavPack DLL in \Program Files (x86)\Nero 9\Nero Burning ROM\AudioPluginManager.

Then I downloaded and installed Exact Audio Copy (donationware). It has a function that I can break up a big WAV file into individual tracks.

Now I can use Nero Burning Rom (command line from earlier in the topic) to transcode my WV file into a WAV file (one big file). Then I use Exact Audio Copy to break up the large WAV file into individual WAVs (tracks) according to the CUE sheet. At this point I have reconstituted the original 44.1 KHz stereo and can burn it into a CD-R resulting in a CD of the original album.

At this point it gets a bit messy and awkward. I'm still working on a better way to do it without going to an external media and back. (Should be able to do it with file operations on the HDD.) I burn a copy of the original CD onto a CD-RW, and then I use my favorite ripper Easy CD-DA Extractor (free trial, then a small payment if youu want to keep using it). That results in my desired end result, the original album transcoded into MP3s and suitable for importing into iTunes so I can play the album on my iPod.

Certainly iTunes could do some of the steps, except that I think iTunes really sucks and I only use it for loading tunes on my iPod. I use WMP as my main music player, and it works well with my regedit adding a folder context menu item: "WMP play." The context action expects to find a M3U (playlist) file of the same name as the folder (in form of "artist - album name" and sends that playlist to WMP. I organize my music collection by simple Windows Explorer operations.

I have a bit more tweaking to do but now I can backup and restore all my music and transcode from any format to any other format. I use my custom front end (folder context menu) to launch any music album I wish to play.

Problem solved! Thank you everybody who helped me along the way. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Fleegle: Oct 20 2012, 17:11
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Fleegle
post Oct 20 2012, 17:25
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By the way, just to add:

Nero 12 should do all this stuff right out of the box. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. The Nero 12 trial appears to do some of it but it's either broken or intentionally crippled to encourage trialers to buy the full product.

I was not able to find any specific list at Nero's site describing how the trial differes from the full product, so I had no way of knowing whether spending money would solve my problem and I didn't want to spend the money and then have it not work. A good trial download with all the features working but set to expire at the end of the evaluation period would be a better way to get sales.

And additionally, I joined the Nero support forum but I never was able to start a topic there similar to the topic I started here. I was able to reply to other topics buy my forum membership account did not have permission to start new topics. So I was unable to ask for help there unless I wanted to piggyback my question at the end of some other topic, which I didn't want to do because that's rude to take over somebody's topic.

Conclusion: Nero as a product works well and I've bought full products of Nero 6, Nero 7, Nero 8 and Nero 9. Their Nero 12 trial download sucks. Their forum sucks. Their support sucks. That's all folks! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Fleegle: Oct 20 2012, 17:27
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bryant
post Oct 22 2012, 05:01
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QUOTE (Fleegle @ Oct 15 2012, 06:13) *
From your comments I presume you are the developer or one of the developers of WavPack. I suggest that adding file spltting/combining to the Win32 command line tools would be a nice enhancement and would allow the tools to be used independently of larger software packages. They are nice because they have such a small footprint. Speaking as a software engineer it doesn't seem to me that the additional functionality to process multiple input files into a WavPack wv file with embedded cuesheet, or process a WavPack file with embedded cue sheet to multiple output files, would be that much work. For people like me that would provide the minimal solution to get material in and out of WavPacks without any other software. It would be a nice feature.

Yes, I am the primary WavPack developer.

The most basic implementation would be to unpack a WavPack file with an embedded cuesheet into individual tracks with the track number simply prepended to the output file name (so, instead of a single wav file called “Dark Size of the Moon.wav” you would get “01.Dark Side of the Moon.wav”, “02.Dark Side of the Moon.wav”, etc.

That might be good enough for some applications, but the problem is that all of the metadata stored in the cuesheet is being lost. So, people may want the output file to take its name from the track name (or some combination of the track and album names) and this can be difficult to implement across platforms because of Unicode complications and illegal filename characters. Another solution would allow creating new individual WavPack files with all of the metadata from the cuesheet transferred into APEv2 tags on each file, but currently the WavPack command-line tools do not allow any WavPack to WavPack transcoding, so that has to come first.

So, yeah, this is on my “nice to have” list, but it’s not as straightforward as it might seem (other than the most basic implementation).

QUOTE
I hate topics where the OP gets his problem solved, and then disappears without telling how he solved it. Then years later somebody has the same problem and they find this topic via Google search, and read the whole topic and there's no solution at the end. So...

I appreciate you doing so; there’s even an xkcd comic about this! smile.gif

I do have one question though that I was not able to figure out from your posts. It seems like you were able to use the command-line version of Nero 12 to decode WavPack files once the WavPack dll was in the correct folder, but were you ever able to use the Nero 12 GUI version to do this (or did you try)? Most users are probably just using the GUI, and if this has stopped working at some Nero revision from 9 to 12, I would like to know (and warn users appropriately).

Thanks again!
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