E-MU 1212M or Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic?, Feel welcome to contribute any other personal recommendations/solution Options

[gramarye]

Hello everyone here at HA,

I've been reading quite a few threads pertaining the differences of brands and types of soundcards. I'd have to say there's definitely a lot out there to experience with soundcards. I've came to down to the decision between the following two soundcards: (1) E-MU 1212M and the (2) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic

I'd like to hear from both sides, the pros and cons. I have seem to read more pros for the 1212M compared to Creative's X-Fi series. Understanding the differences and realizing that each soundcard of the x-fi series has certain qualities, I've decided that the Extrememusic would be more ideal for my usage. (Platinum was a consideration, but the production for it has stopped). I'll include some purposes: Music plays such an important role in my life, sound quality is what I desire. I hope to record music of my own someday in the near future. I do not play video games at all, however, I watch movies. I also author/edit dvds and is involved with video production. So the sound quality involved in those areas can be crucial.

I appreciate you reading this thread, I really hope I can come down to a decision. Thanks so much for your time.

Currently, I'm using on-board High-Definition audio sound from my motherboard. However, I used to use my Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty soundcard, which is in the box right now, since the drivers for it doesn't work with my system. (I hope to get rid of that too.)

[boombaard]

Hello everyone here at HA,

I've been reading quite a few threads pertaining the differences of brands and types of soundcards. I'd have to say there's definitely a lot out there to experience with soundcards. I've came to down to the decision between the following two soundcards: (1) E-MU 1212M and the (2) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic

I'd like to hear from both sides, the pros and cons. I have seem to read more pros for the 1212M compared to Creative's X-Fi series. Understanding the differences and realizing that each soundcard of the x-fi series has certain qualities, I've decided that the Extrememusic would be more ideal for my usage. (Platinum was a consideration, but the production for it has stopped). I'll include some purposes: Music plays such an important role in my life, sound quality is what I desire. I hope to record music of my own someday in the near future. I do not play video games at all, however, I watch movies. I also author/edit dvds and is involved with video production. So the sound quality involved in those areas can be crucial.

I appreciate you reading this thread, I really hope I can come down to a decision. Thanks so much for your time.

Currently, I'm using on-board High-Definition audio sound from my motherboard. However, I used to use my Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty soundcard, which is in the box right now, since the drivers for it doesn't work with my system. (I hope to get rid of that too.)

slightly OT: why do you expect that the X-Fi XM drivers work if they don't work for the fatality? they're really the same drivers.. the only difference is a higher SNR for the fatality.
what makes you say you want to get rid of that (the card? or driver problems?)

[CSMR]

I would say:
First decide what you want the computer to do.
Then select the right hardware.
Computers are so versatile that you don't need to make compromises.
The most important question here is do you want many analogue channels from the computer or just two?. If two, go with the 1212m definitely. If more than two, the 1212m can't do that.

[CSMR]

If you are going to be recording you may want to think of:
what inputs you might need (how many mics and what you want to plug them in to)
where you are going to be recording (desktop, laptop, or something more portable).
I know the E-MU range and you might want to consider all of them:
Stereo:
1212m: stereo analogue in and out only
0202USB: can use with laptops, has two mic preamps and decent headphone out
0404USB: adds phantom power, needs external power supply
Multichannel:
1820m:
lots of ins and outs, two mic preamps with phantom power, decent headphone out
1616m: laptop card (with external power supply I think)

This post has been edited by CSMR: Aug 6 2007, 19:33

[sackynut]

Well, Im not a master with audio jargon and recording jargon, but I know a little bit.

Firstly, if you have a Fatality, an Xtreme music would be a step DOWN. The quality would be the same, but overall the Fatality is a better card (mainly for gaming.) If the software/hardware doesnt work with your computer, getting an xtreme music would be a waste of money. Also, the Fatality comes with a front panel, and the xtreme music does not. The front panel allows for LineIn recording, and a closer headphones jack. Along with optical connections and such, things that are not present on the back of the xtreme music.
So, if you can get it to work, keep the fatality, if not, go with w/e E-MU you choose.

That said, if you can get the Fatality to work, Id say keep it. Im not quite sure if the EMU is better for recording or not, but I can say from experience my x-fi platinum (with the front panel that works magic) is great. It does 24bit/192khz, has a 24bit crystalizer, which in fact, does work (virtuallity), sounds excellent with music, sounds awesome with movies, comes with a remote so you can watch/listen from a distance and allows you to record via LineIn/Mic on the front panel. As far as rendering goes...not sure.

Its not the ideal soundcard for audio production, but it has a Line in, and you can easily connect a Audio Interface Box to it, or a DI Preamp or a mixer or w/e you would like.

My two cents. Oh and not, I may be bias because Im a gamer, and my X-fi works dreams.

As the other poster said, there are many Other E-MU interfaces and such, that are probably a better choice.

[gramarye]

You guys are all awesome. Every single one of you responded with such wonderful replies. I love the specifics and details you guys included and I can tell, you guys really know your stuff, and also know whats best for whichever occasion situation (whether it's budget, recording purposes, etc...) I'd have to say i'm quite impress with everyones contribution and feedback, Thanks!

slightly OT: why do you expect that the X-Fi XM drivers work if they don't work for the fatality? they're really the same drivers.. the only difference is a higher SNR for the fatality.
what makes you say you want to get rid of that (the card? or driver problems?)

Boombaard, you've made a great point, however, I've chose the extrememusic because the firmware just updated (Fatl1ty hasn't updated since May), and from reading in creatives' forums, it seems a lot more succesful compared to the Fatal1ty. However, the success may of may not apply to me. I read somewhere that the 64 ram in Fatal1ty chip (something like that) conflicts with my system, a 4gb memory, 64bit Vista operating system (Iknow...every bad thing one should avoid). I can honestly, after your reply, I've leaned more against Creative's X-Fi's. thanks for the response.

I would say:
First decide what you want the computer to do.
Then select the right hardware.
Computers are so versatile that you don't need to make compromises.
The most important question here is do you want many analogue channels from the computer or just two?. If two, go with the 1212m definitely. If more than two, the 1212m can't do that.

If you are going to be recording you may want to think of:
what inputs you might need (how many mics and what you want to plug them in to)
where you are going to be recording (desktop, laptop, or something more portable).
I know the E-MU range and you might want to consider all of them:
Stereo:
1212m: stereo analogue in and out only
0202USB: can use with laptops, has two mic preamps and decent headphone out
0404USB: adds phantom power, needs external power supply
Multichannel:
1820m:
lots of ins and outs, two mic preamps with phantom power, decent headphone out
1616m: laptop card (with external power supply I think)

CSMR, thanks for your input. I can honestly say I'm in for listening purposes, pure music quality. I'm not big on effects which toggle the sound spectrum. Something that I'd be satisfied with just plugging a pretty good of headsets and enjoy. I've definitely noticed a difference from On-Board High Definition Sound compared to the X-Fi I had prior. I'm not quite sure about your analogue channels question. But I'll give it a try, please let me know if I'm understanding wrong. I'd like to record from various instruments one day (guitars, keyboards, drumpads, a mic for vocals...) through inputs for clear recording. If possible, I would want more than one input for that? (Please correct me on this part, I am not too sure myself). I will be recording on a desktop, i will consider a laptop one day, for portability, and for clients (I also do graphic design work), hopefull a MacBook Pro. (< That's another topic, i wonder if the sound quality on the MBPs would suffice. I notice a lot of bands/artists use the MBP in live performances, it must be good enough to allow that?) I don't think external power would matter too much. Power internal or external would be fine. Keep in mind i have a 520w power supply with video cards and hard drives sharing internal power as well.

The whole E-MU line looks wonderful, and probably has my needs, however, I've read somewhere here in HA that the E-MU 1212m is a bit outdated? Are there new products out there I should consider? I understand E-MU is owned by Creative, no one really mentioned M-Audio, Auzentech, or many others, are they comparable brands (specific products)? I also noticed you didn't mention the Creative X-Fi at all in your response, so, 1 vote for E-MU?

Well, Im not a master with audio jargon and recording jargon, but I know a little bit.

Firstly, if you have a Fatality, an Xtreme music would be a step DOWN. The quality would be the same, but overall the Fatality is a better card (mainly for gaming.) If the software/hardware doesnt work with your computer, getting an xtreme music would be a waste of money. Also, the Fatality comes with a front panel, and the xtreme music does not. The front panel allows for LineIn recording, and a closer headphones jack. Along with optical connections and such, things that are not present on the back of the xtreme music.
So, if you can get it to work, keep the fatality, if not, go with w/e E-MU you choose.

That said, if you can get the Fatality to work, Id say keep it. Im not quite sure if the EMU is better for recording or not, but I can say from experience my x-fi platinum (with the front panel that works magic) is great. It does 24bit/192khz, has a 24bit crystalizer, which in fact, does work (virtuallity), sounds excellent with music, sounds awesome with movies, comes with a remote so you can watch/listen from a distance and allows you to record via LineIn/Mic on the front panel. As far as rendering goes...not sure.

Its not the ideal soundcard for audio production, but it has a Line in, and you can easily connect a Audio Interface Box to it, or a DI Preamp or a mixer or w/e you would like.

My two cents. Oh and not, I may be bias because Im a gamer, and my X-fi works dreams.

As the other poster said, there are many Other E-MU interfaces and such, that are probably a better choice.

sackynut, for someone who considers them self not a mast with audio and recording jargon, you know quite a bit! I appreciate the extensive reply. You're are totally right about a Fatal1ty to Extrememusic is a step down. I completely agree with you just by comparing the specifications of the two alone. Extrememusic seems to fit more for my purposes compared to the Fatal1ty. I do not play video games at all on my computer, I rarely watch movies on my computer, although I have a lot to look forward to soon. I simply just love the senses of hearing quality music. I absolutely want that for any and every purpose, whether it comes to recording music, editing film, watching movies, or just daily hours of listening to music.

I noticed you mentioned that the Fatal1ty is not an ideal soundcard for audio production. I'm sure the Extrememusic wouldn't be either. I'm starting to realize that the both are really different, maybe too different to compare. These soundcards both have their positives and negatives like most products. The X-Fi seems to have more recent technology that produces quality sound, I wonder if the E-MU would be considered a drop or a jump. Looking at your recommendations, it seems like the X-Fi is a winner and virtually has better sound based on the numbers. You also mentioned an Audio Interface Box, where are the ones you've mentioned specifically, and how? Also, any other E-MU products you might recommend other than the 1212M?

[p3ryton]

Hi,

If audio quality is your main concern and you don't intend to play i see almost no reason to stick with a X-Fi, especially if you want to do some music.

The main advantage in my opinion of X-Fi cards is the way they are supported in games and if you are running vista this advantage dissapear since their hardware accelerated audio processing is not supported yet (maybe it will change but it's uncertain due to vista architecture if i remember correctly).

E-mu cards seem to be better suited for what you intend to do. Have you considered other manufacturers btw ?

[danbee]

If you are interested in sound quality, perhaps you should consider an external interface? Something like the EMU 0404 USB would also give you two mic/instrument inputs for recording with. It also has balanced outputs, which are ideal for connecting studio monitors to.

[CSMR]

I think for you the 1616/1616m is the best choice but costs more than the others. The 1616/1616m has all the features you will want and you can pull it out of the PC and put it in your laptop when needed (PC not mac). Going to the others, you lose either portability (1820/1820m) or channels (0202USB/0404USB).
Don't get the 1212m. It is a great card for simple stereo analog in and out but you want more than that. Having integrated preamps is very convenient and also cost-effective.
Also if you are likely to use condenser mics, don't get the 0202USB as phantom power will be useful.
Your choice; you can't go too wrong and you can easily change later.

Keep in mind i have a 520w power supply with video cards and hard drives sharing internal power as well.

That's a bad sign. I would guess it is a loud machine. Can you keep it away from where you listen and record?

[gramarye]

Hi,

If audio quality is your main concern and you don't intend to play i see almost no reason to stick with a X-Fi, especially if you want to do some music.

The main advantage in my opinion of X-Fi cards is the way they are supported in games and if you are running vista this advantage dissapear since their hardware accelerated audio processing is not supported yet (maybe it will change but it's uncertain due to vista architecture if i remember correctly).

E-mu cards seem to be better suited for what you intend to do. Have you considered other manufacturers btw ?

I agree with you on that reason. and yes, I am definitely considering other manufactuers, I hope to learn about more, you think you can share some other brands/manufacturers and specific models for my needs? I appreciate it.

If you are interested in sound quality, perhaps you should consider an external interface? Something like the EMU 0404 USB would also give you two mic/instrument inputs for recording with. It also has balanced outputs, which are ideal for connecting studio monitors to.

Thanks for the reply. Are external interfaces better to use compared to internal? I'd like to know a little more about this if possible. Do any of these cards work in a mac? (i'm assuming no, but do external interfaces add more compatibility for both Windows and Mac OS?)

I think for you the 1616/1616m is the best choice but costs more than the others. The 1616/1616m has all the features you will want and you can pull it out of the PC and put it in your laptop when needed (PC not mac). Going to the others, you lose either portability (1820/1820m) or channels (0202USB/0404USB).
Don't get the 1212m. It is a great card for simple stereo analog in and out but you want more than that. Having integrated preamps is very convenient and also cost-effective.
Also if you are likely to use condenser mics, don't get the 0202USB as phantom power will be useful.
Your choice; you can't go too wrong and you can easily change later.

Keep in mind i have a 520w power supply with video cards and hard drives sharing internal power as well.

That's a bad sign. I would guess it is a loud machine. Can you keep it away from where you listen and record?

Is there anything specific that the 1616m you like in particular? personal experiences? it sounds like I shouldn't consider 1212m at all. this is getting pretty tough to decided. Do you think you can tell me a little more of the 1616m that is beneficial. Is there a new product line coming soon? (since i've read people are considering these cards outdates, or not being manufactured anymore) Please share any other brands, cards i can consider. and for your comment about my machine, it's actually completely silent, either it's the case or the silent fans, but you can't recognize it being on sometimes. Anyway, does all that in my case interfere with recording?

thanks for all the replies. I appreciate it, i hope to hear some more.

[CSMR]

By best I meant apart from the cost. The 1616 has mic preamps with phantom power, lots of ins and outs, can be used on desktops and laptops. But just for starting out, you could try one of the USB cards (0202, 0404USB). Their limitation is the number of ins and outs. Get the 0404USB if you are likely to be using condenser mics (phantom power), otherwise the 0202USB. All great cards. Each one even has a usable headphone out should you require it.

[poop]

An external 0404 USB will suit you best if you wish to use with a Mac.

My suggestion would be to get a reasonably inexpensive soundcard (perhaps something like the PCI version of the 0404 if running PC), and output the digital signal (coax is probably better than optical) to an external DAC. The DAC you go with will have a significant bearing on the final price, but will offer you fantastic audio.

This suggestion is not the best for your recording purposes - but (forgive me) I get the impression that this is more of an additional 'want' for the future than a 'need' for the present - your priority seems to lie in great music to listen to...

This post has been edited by poop: Aug 15 2007, 12:02

[buktore]

Don't pick the X-Fi. I have cracking/pop sound with these stupid card.

It's drive me nuts to the point that i almost pull it out of my pc and throw it out of the window.

This post has been edited by buktore: Aug 15 2007, 14:23

[gramarye]

Don't pick the X-Fi. I have cracking/pop sound with these stupid card.

It's drive me nuts to the point that i almost pull it out of my pc and throw it out of the window.

I know i'm steering this discussion a little less towards recording for a bit, jsut our of curiousity...
do you guys know if this card is any good?

Asus Xonar D2/PM
http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=25&am...amp;modelmenu=1

or this one:

Auzentech Prelude 7.1 soundcard?
http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_prelude.php

Would the X-fi in that card give the same results? since they're both "X-Fi"'s but different company.

[CiTay]

Don't pick the X-Fi. I have cracking/pop sound with these stupid card.

It's drive me nuts to the point that i almost pull it out of my pc and throw it out of the window.

This depends on the mainboard. On a few mainboards for S939, there's crackling, while on many others there's no crackling at all (like on mine, ASUS A8N-SLI Premium). I believe mainboards for Intel never had that problem.

[buktore]

After some investigation. I found that the cause of cracking/pop sound come when i plug my DVD writer to first IDE chanel. as a slave to my harddisk.

pretty wierd, now i tried remove it and it work just find. like before. but i can't use my DVD rom now oh well..

and if i plug my DVD rom to second IDE channel. window will just lockup when i insert some cd/dvd in. it work fine when i plug it in first IDE channel. but that will cause cracking/pop sound. wierd.. but i guess i have to live with it.

EDIT: the crack/pop sound is still there... but a lot less. now i have to hope it's not the become like before.

sorry for off topic.

------

If you don't play game at all. why use X-Fi than? the card are too overprize in my opinion. and most of it advertise feature are just pure hype. and you will have the risk of some compatibility issue like me.

This post has been edited by buktore: Aug 16 2007, 02:54

[gramarye]

If you don't play game at all. why use X-Fi than? the card are too overprize in my opinion. and most of it advertise feature are just pure hype. and you will have the risk of some compatibility issue like me.

good point! i'm sold on that point. no x-fi for me.

But i still haven't received any recommendations of other brands and models to consider... :/ stick to e-mu and creative ?

This post has been edited by gramarye: Aug 16 2007, 10:06

[buktore]

I never tried anything except for X-Fi Xmusic. so i can't give a good opinion.

It's not a bad card actually, if it work that is (without problem). But if you don't play game this card offer nothing special in my opinion. so you will pay for something you don't use and that not a good idea.

I heard you mentioned using headphone. Maybe you can try EMU 0404 USB. it has built-in headphone amp.

-----------

EDIT:

Now i have to take back my word. the cracking sound that i have is actually my PSU fault. now i change to enermax and all of my problem are gone.

This post has been edited by buktore: Aug 31 2007, 17:59

[gramarye]

are any of these Auzentech sound cards superior to the creative's extrememusic or e-mu 1212m?

and would 7.1 and 5.1 stereo sound cards only work with 7.1 and 5.1 speaker systems?

thanks for your time.

[poohead]

Perhaps also consider a cheaper soundcard with digital out that you can run through an external DAC. This combination can potentially give you much better quality audio output, and can be achieved for around the same price.

7.1 and 5.1 cards can work in 2ch, but in general (as others have suggested) you are better to decide which is more important to you - surround or 2ch audio, and purchase accordingly.

[gramarye]

Perhaps also consider a cheaper soundcard with digital out that you can run through an external DAC. This combination can potentially give you much better quality audio output, and can be achieved for around the same price.

7.1 and 5.1 cards can work in 2ch, but in general (as others have suggested) you are better to decide which is more important to you - surround or 2ch audio, and purchase accordingly.

Thanks poohead. Do you happen to know if the e-mu 1212m is discontinued in manufacturing?

[poohead]

Still available and being manufactured AFAIK - have one myself and think it is a great card. Patchmix (software for EMU cards) takes a little getting used to, but it provides bitperfect output and controls to prevent clipping. Sound from its DAC is pretty impressive for the price, but I run digital output to an external processor which is better again.

If you are serious about good quality 2ch sound I can't stress enough that you should at least try an external DAC if possible.

[gramarye]

Still available and being manufactured AFAIK - have one myself and think it is a great card. Patchmix (software for EMU cards) takes a little getting used to, but it provides bitperfect output and controls to prevent clipping. Sound from its DAC is pretty impressive for the price, but I run digital output to an external processor which is better again.

If you are serious about good quality 2ch sound I can't stress enough that you should at least try an external DAC if possible.

which external DAC do you recommend in particular?

This post has been edited by gramarye: Oct 26 2007, 12:53

[boombaard]

the auzentechs are technically superior to creative's own cards, yes..
(they've got the x-fi chip licenced, but make their own cards)..
for a comparison (own site) read http://auzentech.officewebsiteonline.com/d...risonChart2.pdf
(their software/driversupport is loads better than creative's (doh), so it's actually a fairly interesting solution.. the specs on most fronts outclass the elite pro's, and it's about €50 cheaper)

This post has been edited by boombaard: Jan 7 2008, 18:28