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Topic: Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93 (Read 47770 times) previous topic - next topic
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Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #75 –
count down stopped

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #76 –
@takehiro:

Thank you!

This is some very good news.  I just hope the rest of the developers will agree to replace the main branch instead of a lengthy, troublesome, and error prone merge.

I'll do some tests with this build when I'm done with classes later today.  I'm sure JohnV will probably check it also.  We'll make sure to get our feedback to you so that some last minute tuning can take place if necessary.

I'll also try and provide an ICL compile (with sources) later tonight with the extra presets added...

Once things are tested by more people and found to be pretty stable, I think we should hold a larger public listening test of some sort.  Maybe ff123 would be interested in helping to set this up?

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #77 –
One more thing...

I will probably subscribe to the Lame-dev list again so that I can make sure I'm up to date on Takehiro's progress, but I think that only keeping the discussion on the list (I noticed a few people on the list have mentioned that they would prefer this) has the effect of  isolating the developers from the users here on HA.

I believe this has been one of the roots of this whole problem so far...

Obviously, I can't get all of the users here to participate in discussions on the mailing list.  It's much easier for the developers to continue to make an effort to participate in discussion on boards like these as well, at least if they want to keep up to date with listening tests, quality bugs, etc..

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #78 –
Personally, i'm eager to check it out. Gonna wait for the ICL compile. This is great news.

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #79 –
the above are ICL compiles of Takehiro's branch, but I'll take 'em off soon.

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #80 –
Quote
the above are ICL compiles of Takehiro's branch, but I'll take 'em off soon.

If you are concerned about web space and/or bandwidth usage, I can host them in N different servers.

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #81 –
I mirrored them here (zipped instead of gzipped):

http://static.hydrogenaudio.org/extra/LAME...ble-lame.p1.zip
http://static.hydrogenaudio.org/extra/LAME...ble-lame.p3.zip

@robert:

Did you make patches for takehiro's build so that it compiles on win32?  I noticed you mentioned some issues on the mailing list (which is also why I had to use cygwin before)... but since these are native win32 compiles, you must have fixed those problems.

Can you upload the source or something so that I can add the new presets for testing?

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #82 –
There are only a few small patches you'll have to do.
in main.h comment out #include <sys/parm.h>
in machine.h add  #define FLOAT_MAX like above
in lame.c expand the #ifdef to comment out ->pinfo

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #83 –
Quote
There are only a few small patches you'll have to do.
in main.h comment out #include <sys/parm.h>
in machine.h add  #define FLOAT_MAX like above
in lame.c expand the #ifdef to comment out ->pinfo

OK thanks.

I didn't spend much time looking at the problems before since I was in a hurry, good to see they're only minor issues.

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #84 –
I'm a bit confused.

"LAME version MMX <alpha 2, Oct 14 2002.."

I thought it's supposed to be from Oct 15. Or maybe i didn't quite get it right..

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #85 –
Just a note.. the current version crashes when -Y is used with the fast presets.

Also, it seems that the fast presets might be much closer in quality to the normal ones now that there is impulse detection code... Hrmm.. needs more testing though

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #86 –
Quote
I thought it's supposed to be from Oct 15. Or maybe i didn't quite get it right..

It's still Oct 14 in this part of the World.

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #87 –
OH! ..

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #88 –
Dibrom: Could you be so kind as to give us just a short list of the critical samples we could use for testing - like, for example, some of the samples you used for tuning the alt-presets originally? (I'll try to do some testing since I have enough time ATM, I can't promise you that it will help you a lot though, since my headphones are a little broken... anyway, I'll try.)

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #89 –
Volcano:

Yes, I'll try to upload most of the original samples I tested with a little bit later (I don't have them with me atm..).

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #90 –
Oh, btw... --r3mix completely screwed up sounding in Takehiro's release.  I haven't tested the mainline 3.93 so I don't know if it's the same there also, but at any rate, --r3mix should either be removed, disabled, or aliased to one of the other presets for sure with this build.

Just try it on a sample like castanets or velvet for example..

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #91 –
Quote
Oh, btw... --r3mix completely screwed up sounding in Takehiro's release.  I haven't tested the mainline 3.93 so I don't know if it's the same there also, but at any rate, --r3mix should either be removed, disabled, or aliased to one of the other presets for sure with this build.

Just try it on a sample like castanets or velvet for example..

I like the idea of aliasing to --alt-preset standard.  That way, people who visit R3mix.net and get stuck on the idea of using --r3mix won't actually be doing themselves any 'damage'...

I don't know if you care about who gets credit for what at this point, Dibrom (I probably wouldn't).  It looks like --r3mix isn't going away soon, so imho better to have it sound good than trashing sound quality with the latest release.  Unless Roel decides to chime in & say something...

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #92 –
Quote
Quote
Oh, btw... --r3mix completely screwed up sounding in Takehiro's release.  I haven't tested the mainline 3.93 so I don't know if it's the same there also, but at any rate, --r3mix should either be removed, disabled, or aliased to one of the other presets for sure with this build.

Just try it on a sample like castanets or velvet for example..

I like the idea of aliasing to --alt-preset standard.  That way, people who visit R3mix.net and get stuck on the idea of using --r3mix won't actually be doing themselves any 'damage'...

I don't know if you care about who gets credit for what at this point, Dibrom (I probably wouldn't).  It looks like --r3mix isn't going away soon, so imho better to have it sound good than trashing sound quality with the latest release.  Unless Roel decides to chime in & say something...

I don't really care about credit, no.  But I think that if it is aliased to one of the other presets, there should be a warning message displayed that --r3mix is outdated and that another preset is actually being used.  This will let users know to switch over to the standard presets over time instead of continuing to use --r3mix until one day it gets removed completely..

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #93 –
ha, just make lame quit without any encoding... "fatal error: unrecognized commandline switch"

kidding
A riddle is a short sword attached to the next 2000 years.

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #94 –
If --r3mix is aliased to --aps, which I think it should, there should be some info message written to the console that says r3mix is deprecated and LAME is automatically replacing it with alt-preset standard. You don't want to secretly make the change because people will hear the improved aps version and think "wow, r3mix sounds nice".

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #95 –
Quote
Once things are tested by more people and found to be pretty stable, I think we should hold a larger public listening test of some sort.  Maybe ff123 would be interested in helping to set this up?

Possibly.  I haven't been active lately (ask JohnV how I've been slacking), but these things go in phases for me.

ff123

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #96 –
What a speed improvement! I'm using the lame.p3.exe compile available above and it's about 50-60% faster than LAME 3.92 MMX.

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #97 –
are the new presets already in ? I can't get them to work!

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #98 –
Hi
I'm not a developer but a kind of a long-time observer. I've been reading lame-dev and this forum for about a year (since when dm-presets where the bleeding edge). Some will say it's too short, others it's enough but it doesn't matter. I read the whole thread and have to admit that I agree with Alexander. He responded very rationally to JohnV's and Dibroms's post and presented some valid arguments. (altho i had seen a discussion about 3.93 and aps on lame-dev a few days earlier). But I felt disturbed when I read Dibrom's response. It was very emotional, definitely not based on reason or logic in thinking out the problem. To me, it seems that when quality and psychoacoustic compression is involved, Dibrom presents very rational arguments. But here, when lame-dev was mentioned, he irrationally discarded a lot of valid points. This was something I just had  to write about.

Dibrom, you wanted to wait with the release until you were absolutely sure nothing was broken. Alexander came here to pinpoint what had been changed, what can cause problems. He told you, Dibrom, "go ahead, test, code, do everything you want and the release will be delayed until you are done". You, Dibrom, responded in a very impolite manner, laughing at the other developers' efforts, depreciating their merits. I don't understand, what else did you expect Alexander to say? And all this without being subscribed to lame-dev nor lame-cvs, where the developers discuss how the changes to the code affect the resulting bitstream. Without access to these lists your critique, especially the 'lousiness' part, seems irrational to me. Don't turn people against you. You also keep saying that the developers are personally attacking you. They don't.

Quote
I think that only keeping the discussion on the [lame-dev] list (I noticed a few people on the list have mentioned that they would prefer this) has the effect of isolating the developers from the users here on HA.


Sorry, but that really upset me. This is the mainstream LAME discussion list:
lame-dev: http://www.geocrawler.com/lists/3/SourceForge/7323/0/
This is the mainstream code change list:
lame-cvs: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lame-cvs

If, for example, you conduct listening tests and don't report them to lame-dev, than you're creating an isolated community here. Imagine every developer created his own forum. We would have a giant mess then. HA has its role in the community to inform the users about audio-related matters but is not (shoudn't be) meant to replace lame-dev. And sourceforge.com, which hosts lame-dev, is a well-known neutral site for open projects.

This is teamwork. You have done a great work.  The others have done a great work too. But the attitude is doing more harm than good.

Quote
Obviously, I can't get all of the users here to participate in discussions on the mailing list. It's much easier for the developers to continue to make an effort to participate in discussion on boards like these as well, at least if they want to keep up to date with listening tests, quality bugs, etc..  


see above....


Okay, there are more ppl at this forum than at lame-dev who want to participate in listening tests and are good testers. But cooperation is needed. That applies to the both sides.

Quote
I will probably subscribe to the Lame-dev list again


Thank you. I felt relieved. My respect for you had depreciated because of your responses in this thread, but now it is going up.

Best regards,
Joey

Plans For --alt-presets, Etc, In Lame 3.93

Reply #99 –
Quote
Ps for some posters: In this thread we are gently discussing. Please do not pollute this thread with unconstructive posts.  

Maybe it would be best to have a separate thread for user discussion? Sounds like a good idea to me.
"Something bothering you, Mister Spock?"