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Converting DTS WAV to FLAC, how do I get output above 44.1 kHz/16 bit?
czgirb
post Jan 3 2011, 04:03
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Dear all!

I have a DTS's file which not allowed me to edit all tags.
I don't know what's the problem.
I suggest maybe the WAV's file had a problem ... so I wish to convert it to FLAC and it can be edited in Foobar2000.
But how can I do it, since the highest bits/freq can achieved in foobar2000 is 16/44.1 only.

I wish to convert other WAV's 24/96 to FLAC 24/96.
But both foobar2000 and Format Factory only support 16/44.1 only.
Please help me ...

Sorry for my english is NOT good.
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saratoga
post Jan 3 2011, 05:12
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Foobar will convert to any bit depth and sample rate you want. Did you force resampling to 44.1?
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RandyOsbourne
post Jan 15 2011, 02:46
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I always thought wav was only a lossless container, but not with DTS.wav encoded files...
They are already compressed by DTS, but I guess you can get more compression for archive using flac and a flac GUI.

This post has been edited by RandyOsbourne: Jan 15 2011, 02:47
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andy o
post Jan 15 2011, 06:20
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QUOTE (RandyOsbourne @ Jan 14 2011, 17:46) *
I always thought wav was only a lossless container, but not with DTS.wav encoded files...
They are already compressed by DTS, but I guess you can get more compression for archive using flac and a flac GUI.

I don't think it would compress it much further, since the flac encoder will only see it as noise.
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[JAZ]
post Jan 15 2011, 13:15
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QUOTE (RandyOsbourne @ Jan 15 2011, 02:46) *
I always thought wav was only a lossless container, but not with DTS.wav encoded files...
They are already compressed by DTS, but I guess you can get more compression for archive using flac and a flac GUI.


The common use of the .wav container is to contain PCM audio (non-conmpresed).
Said that, it has always had many different types of compressed audio: A-Law, mu-Law, IMA adpcm, Microsoft ADPCM, GSM 6.11, and even in late 1990s and early 2000s it contained sometimes MP3 streams (which were decoded by the fraunhoffer audio codec)

Now, about compressing a DTS encoded signal by a lossless audio encoder, it is to be expected that it either won't do it (because it will not be a supported format), or (if the header is faked) compress it like a noise signal would be compressed (i.e. not by much).


@czgirb:

The .WAV fileformat can contain tags, but it is not defined how these tags should be saved. As such, there is a limited set which are standarized, and the rest may or may not work. (And more importantly, there is no guarantee that other programs will understand the tags).

Converting the audio to .FLAC (or other lossless codec) allows to use the tags that such codec supports. To do so, you need to decode the file with a DTS decoder, and then encode to flac.


Now, thinking a bit more about this... was this DTS file coming from a CD? I remember that some CDs are made to be played by a DTS decoder. As such, when ripping this CD, the wav header will be written as if it was a 44Khz 16bit file (CD audio), but the signal itself will contain the DTS stream.
In this case, foobar will not recognize the DTS stream but instead the 44Khz header, and indeed encode to FLAC with 44Khz 16bits.
This scenario is the one i've described above as "if the header is faked".
Ideally, the DTS stream should be taken out of the .wav container to be decoded by a DTS decoder. (I don't know if there are programs/plugins that can decode it without this step).
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RandyOsbourne
post Jan 16 2011, 00:33
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Great responses...
How about what is the difference between Dts.wav and Dts.dts.
I do believe Dts.dts is used in movie.mkv containers, and the Dts.wav is used for dvd's & cd's...
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RandyOsbourne
post Jan 16 2011, 04:10
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Additionally, how do you make a 96khz-24 bit DTS.wav file?
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[JAZ]
post Jan 16 2011, 10:44
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I guess (I've never seen one first-hand) that DTS wav is just the DTS stream inside a .wav container as I've described, while if it is only the stream, then it is .dts alone.

The only "problem" (if you allow me to say it that way) is that the header of the .wav file should say that it has audio encoded in DTS, while it probably doesn't have that tag if ripped from a DTS CD. (I don't even know if the codec has a registered format number for the .wav header)


The whys and hows of this is that a DTS CD needs to be played using a DTS capable receiver (the cd player doesn't care or need to know).
When receiving the stream, it detects that it is not receiving audio and enables the decoder. When ripped on a computer, it can be played using a digital out, and the receiver still can detect this, even if the software player thinks it is sending audio.

Some audio codecs used for video (ac3filter, for example), have options to "passthrough" the audio streams to the receiver. This means not try to decode in software and send it as is to the receiver. With DTS, it's the same.



And.. how does one put a DTS inside a .wav container? That depends on where you have the dts stream and what do you want to do with it. As i've said, if it is inside a CD, you just rip it.
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Porcus
post Sep 8 2011, 07:51
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As far as I understand, it has nothing to do with (the now rarely used) non-PCM content in WAV containers. I have tried to get a grip on this, so ... could someone please confirm or correct the following?


The DTS stream is a 44.1/16 bitstream which sounds like white noise because it is never intended to be played «literally». The somewhat confusing fact is that it is «music encoded as sound» -- it is easier to explain if DTS were, say, a picture format: then it would be like taking a computer file (say, a .gif file) and renaming it into by replacing «.gif» by «.txt». Playing DTS on a CD player is like viewing this picture file in Notepad.

(1) Now if you do view a GIF file in Notepad, you can tell from the first few characters that this is actually a GIF -- the content identifies the encoding.
(2) Of course Notepad ignores this, and views it as if it were text
(3) Try to open it in a web browser instead! A few of them -- just tested Chrome for Windows -- will read the first few characters and display it as a picture.

In the same way,
(1) the DTS bitstream contains «but I am a DTS stream, not white noise!» to be identified;
(2) like Notepad, a CD player will be totally oblivious of this, and «view it as if it were» what usually is in a CDDA
(3) a DTS decoder will disregard the file format as long as the content reveals itself as DTS. I notice that Foobar2000 with the foo_input_dts plays a DTS-stuffed-in-a-FLAC just fine.



Apart from that, DTS files are often used to test whether output from your computer is bit-perfect, assuming the output is sent to a receiver that can decode DTS: if you transmit the undecoded signal (the «white noise soundalike», it will basically be destroyed totally by any hampering.

This post has been edited by Porcus: Sep 8 2011, 07:51


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andy o
post Sep 8 2011, 10:53
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FWIW, I have even used DTS wav successfully from my iPod Touch via Airplay, out of the Airport Express's digital output into my receiver. Once Sound Check and EQ are disabled, and volume raised to max, the music can be decoded. I still got some artifacts, don't know what that's about. Could not do perfect streaming, but it worked for the most part.
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