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Archiving vinyl once only 96/24?
matt_a
post Mar 26 2013, 16:11
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Hi All,

I wonder if you can help.
I have recently registered with HA but have been reading the forums for months.
Very interesting and informative.

Being a recovering so called 'audiophile (fool)' I think I have at last found some sense in the real world!
But thats a whole other story for a different thread!

I have a collection of some 2000 LPs that I want to archive to digital.
Now I release that the topics of 44/16 v 96/24 has been widely discussed but just to be clear and please
correct me if Im wrong on any of these points;

- Set the phono amp output to produce a max peak volume just below ADC clipping to maximise ADC coverage?

- 16 bits is more than enough, 24 bits does not produce a more detailed rip?

- Would 24 bits needed if I want to use declicking functions and rumble filters?

- If I always set the ADC input correctly normalisation should not be necessary?

- If tracks do need normalising to say -3db what does 24 bit over 16 bit prodivde?

- The noise floor is not lower with 24 v 16 bits, I dont think I understand the concept properly yet?

- 96K rather than 44K is worth doing for capture as it pushes any anti aliasing well out of the audio band.?

- There is no point in having a final cleaned corrected file greater than 44/16 as there is no audio benefit?

(BTW Im using a great software package called Vinyl Studio!)

Thanks for any comments,
Matthew
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cliveb
post Mar 27 2013, 10:12
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You've had lots of good answers. I have just a few brief comments.

QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 15:11) *
I have a collection of some 2000 LPs that I want to archive to digital.

That's a lot of LPs to transfer. And you shouldn't underestimate how much effort is required.
As DVDDoug has said, it's easier to just buy the CDs, but I will just point out these possible reasons why a vinyl transfer may be preferable:
1. Some CD releases have been remixed or edited and the music simply isn't the same.
2. Some CD reissues have unacceptable amounts of dynamic range compression and/or clipping, which means the vinyl can actually sound better (despite its inherent technical limitations).
3. Perhaps (like me) you just enjoy the transfer process. Unlikely, but it takes all sorts.

QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 15:11) *
- Set the phono amp output to produce a max peak volume just below ADC clipping to maximise ADC coverage?

I usually pick what looks like the loudest section of an album by visual inspection of the grooves and just play that, setting the recording level to peak at -3dB. This should give you sufficient headroom for unexpected peaks. I've transferred hundreds of LPs this way and honestly haven't ever had an over using this strategy.

That said, with modern ADCs, aiming for peak levels close to -3dB is probably pointless. My approach is a legacy of years of analogue tape usage and the fact I started doing digital transfers back in the early 90's with 16 bit converters that had fairly high noise floors, so it was necessary back then. These days it's probably easier to just peak around -10dB or so and normalise later.

QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 15:11) *
- Would 24 bits needed if I want to use declicking functions and rumble filters?

There is a theoretical advantage to using greater bit depths. As others have explained, the accumulation of rounding errors will increase the quantisation noise. However in practice it really doesn't matter. The noise floor of vinyl (about -60dB on a good day) is so high that you'd have to do dozens (possibly hundreds) of passes before the accumulation of 16 bit quantisation noise would become audible against the inherent vinyl noise. You can probably even get away without dithering.

On the other hand, there is a *practical* disadvantage to working at 24 bit. This is simply that there are some useful tools that only work on 16 bit files.

QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 15:11) *
(BTW Im using a great software package called Vinyl Studio!)

I always intended to check out Vinyl Studio, but never got around to it. It has a very good reputation.
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Posts in this topic
- matt_a   Archiving vinyl once only 96/24?   Mar 26 2013, 16:11
- - DonP   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 10:11) - If ...   Mar 26 2013, 19:18
- - matt_a   Btw I didn't want to prejudice any answers but...   Mar 26 2013, 19:54
- - AndyH-ha   If you are by some means certain of what the peak ...   Mar 26 2013, 20:23
- - Dynamic   On clicking preview, I see AndyH has replied. We v...   Mar 26 2013, 20:37
- - saratoga   I would record at 48k/24 bit, then after processin...   Mar 26 2013, 20:44
- - DVDdoug   My 1st advice is always... Buy the CD, if it...   Mar 26 2013, 21:47
- - matt_a   Thanks for the answers. Im curious though as to w...   Mar 26 2013, 22:01
|- - db1989   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 21:01) Im cu...   Mar 26 2013, 22:14
|- - mjb2006   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 14:01) I ass...   Mar 27 2013, 04:42
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 17:01) I...   Mar 29 2013, 18:54
- - matt_a   Sorry DVDdoug your reply beat my next question whi...   Mar 26 2013, 22:12
- - matt_a   Ive just realised something fundamental! Why ...   Mar 26 2013, 22:23
|- - DonP   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 16:23) Why a...   Mar 27 2013, 01:36
- - db1989   Either placebo effect and marketers exploiting it,...   Mar 26 2013, 22:31
- - Porcus   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 16:11) - 16 ...   Mar 27 2013, 00:10
- - Apesbrain   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 17:23) Why a...   Mar 27 2013, 01:29
- - cliveb   You've had lots of good answers. I have just a...   Mar 27 2013, 10:12
|- - mjb2006   QUOTE (cliveb @ Mar 27 2013, 02:12) These...   Mar 27 2013, 12:04
- - Engelsstaub   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 26 2013, 09:11) ...BT...   Mar 27 2013, 10:53
- - 2Bdecided   16/44.1 is more than good enough, and has maximum ...   Mar 27 2013, 12:33
- - matt_a   Great Advice!! Ive learnt more from this ...   Mar 27 2013, 15:39
|- - pdq   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 27 2013, 10:39) Anoth...   Mar 27 2013, 15:55
|- - db1989   Whilst I agree that another discussion on jitter i...   Mar 27 2013, 16:14
|- - matt_a   Thats a bit rude isnt it? Especially after all the...   Mar 27 2013, 16:51
|- - db1989   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 27 2013, 15:51) Thats...   Mar 27 2013, 16:57
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (matt_a @ Mar 27 2013, 15:51) Thats...   Mar 27 2013, 17:53
- - greynol   In the context of this discussion, any amount of j...   Mar 27 2013, 16:24
- - greynol   Please don't top-post.   Mar 27 2013, 16:53
- - Mach-X   Indeed perhaps being naive about jitter, and not r...   Mar 27 2013, 16:57
- - matt_a   Quite right, I was too hasty on the keyboard, sorr...   Mar 27 2013, 17:16
- - matt_a   I forgot to mention that its interesting listening...   Mar 27 2013, 17:40
- - matt_a   I have had a really good read through all the FAQ ...   Mar 27 2013, 19:02
- - krabapple   If you're going to sample at higher than Redbo...   Mar 29 2013, 20:42
- - greynol   Sampling and playback at higher rates is (was?) us...   Mar 29 2013, 20:48
|- - DonP   QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 29 2013, 14:48) Samp...   Mar 29 2013, 22:01
- - greynol   Oversampling; sure. I didn't mean to suggest ...   Mar 29 2013, 22:05


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