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Working out which version of an album a rip is, [moved from General Audio/TOS #6]
extracampine
post May 23 2013, 15:47
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Is it possible to work out which version (i.e. which release) of an album a rip is, when this information is missing? The information I have are the flac files and often a .log and .cue from the rip.

Many album have a variety of releases, remasters and reissues and I am keen to make sure I am tagging correctly.

Thanks
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skamp
post May 23 2013, 16:04
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Before someone screams "piracy": you can check out the list of releases for any particular album on Musicbrainz (and try to match your DISCID with Picard). You can also try Discogs (using maybe the catalog number).

This post has been edited by skamp: May 23 2013, 16:05


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extracampine
post May 23 2013, 21:30
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QUOTE (skamp @ May 23 2013, 16:04) *
Before someone screams "piracy": you can check out the list of releases for any particular album on Musicbrainz (and try to match your DISCID with Picard). You can also try Discogs (using maybe the catalog number).


Thanks - MusicBrainz Picard looks good and does identify the albums, but unless I am wrong it doesn't seem to tell you which version/release it is. Once it has identified the album, right-clicking on the album and going to "other versions" shows a list of other potential versions of the album.
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ManekiNeko
post May 24 2013, 01:57
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The only way for sure is to hunt down your discs and use a site like discogs.com and try to match the disc/matrix and other release info. Furthermore, some big name artists have official/fan made websites that list release info. EG, Pink Floyd - http://pinkfloydarchives.com, Depeche Mode, http://www.depmod.com/albums/index.html etc etc.

This post has been edited by ManekiNeko: May 24 2013, 01:57
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ktf
post May 24 2013, 05:34
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When the album is not too obscure and the mastering of the releases differ, you can try to make a DR measurement (see http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/) and check at http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

This post has been edited by ktf: May 24 2013, 05:43


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Porcus
post May 24 2013, 07:24
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Argh, I regret not sorting my albums before ripping ... that job's never gonna be done now.

If you have multiple versions with different RG values or dynamic ranges, then most often the more recent are worse.


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Goratrix
post May 24 2013, 19:36
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The Steve Hoffman forums can be helpful with identifying album mastering/pressing versions. Track volume peaks and TOC are usually a good way to id different versions.
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aztec_mystic
post May 24 2013, 20:40
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QUOTE (Goratrix @ May 24 2013, 20:36) *
The Steve Hoffman forums can be helpful with identifying album mastering/pressing versions. Track volume peaks and TOC are usually a good way to id different versions.

It may help you to find out different masters. But, different versions, not so much. IME, if an album is popular (or long-lived) enough so that different masters of it exist, usually there exist multiple versions created from the same master as well.
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Goratrix
post May 24 2013, 21:09
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QUOTE (aztec_mystic @ May 24 2013, 21:40) *
QUOTE (Goratrix @ May 24 2013, 20:36) *
The Steve Hoffman forums can be helpful with identifying album mastering/pressing versions. Track volume peaks and TOC are usually a good way to id different versions.

It may help you to find out different masters. But, different versions, not so much. IME, if an album is popular (or long-lived) enough so that different masters of it exist, usually there exist multiple versions created from the same master as well.


And what exactly do you mean by "versions"?
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Porcus
post May 25 2013, 11:25
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QUOTE (Goratrix @ May 24 2013, 22:09) *
And what exactly do you mean by "versions"?


Well if the discs are the same, except the print (or plant identifier on inner rim), they could very well be called different “versions”, especially to those who want to specify which “versions” have this and that property.

And, even two CDs with “the same bits” from the same mastering, may have the bitstream displaced slightly to the left or right. That is just like the offset test in EAC/dBpoweramp to align up for AccurateRip – except that it happens upon burning as well (and mastering plants fail to correct for that).

In principle, the TOC could be different too (although I do not know how often it happens if the bits are the same) – e.g. if they omit index points (especially pregaps) or if one version gets a data session.


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aztec_mystic
post May 25 2013, 11:50
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QUOTE (Goratrix @ May 24 2013, 22:09) *
And what exactly do you mean by "versions"?

Different label, different catalog #, different country of release, different artwork, special/limited editions, reissues with different publishing date, etc. You may have such differences and still have the same master. Often times, there's only a new master when the album is first picked up by a major or when there are at least a few years between the last version and a new re-issue.
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Goratrix
post May 25 2013, 12:19
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QUOTE (aztec_mystic @ May 25 2013, 12:50) *
QUOTE (Goratrix @ May 24 2013, 22:09) *
And what exactly do you mean by "versions"?

Different label, different catalog #, different country of release, different artwork, special/limited editions, reissues with different publishing date, etc. You may have such differences and still have the same master. Often times, there's only a new master when the album is first picked up by a major or when there are at least a few years between the last version and a new re-issue.


But if the audio stream is the same, then none of these things matter to a person such as the OP, who has only a rip of the album.
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Porcus
post May 25 2013, 12:25
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QUOTE (Goratrix @ May 25 2013, 13:19) *
But if the audio stream is the same, then none of these things matter to a person such as the OP, who has only a rip of the album.


Which is a point of itself. If you have enough to compare with, the audio can tell you which mastering it is, the offset can narrow it further, and you might have an idea of the possible suspects and how many they are.

Edit: There are quite a few threads herein concering the (CD) version(s) of the Dark Side of the Moon. Which exists both with and without the dreaded pre-emphasis: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=97307

This post has been edited by Porcus: May 25 2013, 12:29


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mjb2006
post May 25 2013, 13:22
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You can compare the TOC in your log file to TOC data on MusicBrainz and freedb.

One way is to browse MusicBrainz for candidates. Pick a release page, click the Disc IDs tab, and click on the disc ID link, and it will give you the TOC as reported by Picard, along with a freedb ID. Sometimes they have cross-references to Discogs, which is ideal, but those links are decided on by users, so sometimes they're wrong.

At freedb you can search for one of their disc IDs (or use their other search interfaces) and then click on the ID link, and get the actual submission data... on occasion, this will contain comments that might be helpful, including TOC data. I've seen specific pressing data here as well, embedded in comments.

The problem with both of these databases is that you can't really count on every pressing being accounted for, or any of the details (except TOCs) being accurate. And as mentioned, common releases may have identical TOCs. But it's worth a shot. Just don't say any conclusions you draw are 100% certain.

Another way is to use CTDB... there's no search engine, but you can search for an exact artist name like http://db.cuetools.net/?artist=Pink+Floyd and get CTDB IDs and release pages from there. It will tell you all the IDs it knows: freedb, MusicBrainz, AccurateRip ... and gives links where it can.

This post has been edited by mjb2006: May 25 2013, 13:32
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