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MP3 320 kbs vs Redbook ripped to WAV, Positive ABX test result with foobar on classical material (Ravel)
UltimateMusicSno...
post Sep 17 2013, 02:42
Post #1





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Posts: 55
Joined: 17-September 13
Member No.: 110129



CODE
foo_abx 1.3.4 report
foobar2000 v1.2.8
2013/09/16 19:01:08

File A: C:\Users\KiarkAudio\Documents\Ravel_Test_File_2.wav
File B: C:\Users\KiarkAudio\Documents\Ravel_Test_File_1.mp3

19:01:08 : Test started.
19:01:27 : 01/01 50.0%
19:01:34 : 02/02 25.0%
19:01:42 : 03/03 12.5%
19:02:15 : 04/04 6.3%
19:02:49 : 05/05 3.1%
19:03:01 : 06/06 1.6%
19:03:52 : 07/07 0.8%
19:04:06 : 08/08 0.4%
19:04:28 : 09/09 0.2%
19:04:38 : 10/10 0.1%
19:04:51 : 11/11 0.0%
19:05:28 : 12/12 0.0%
19:05:44 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 12/12 (0.0%)

This test is from an excerpt of Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe (full version, not the Suite). This was a planned set of 12 rounds.
The .wav file above was ripped directly from the music CD using SoundForge 10. SoundForge 10 exported the file to MP3 at 320 kbs setting.

Soundforge statistics produced the following:
Redbook Left RMS: -26.087
Redbook Right RMS: -26.385

MP3 Left RMS: -26.135
MP3 Right RMS: -26.441

While the two files are thus not identically matched for level, the Left channel difference is 0.048db, Right difference is 0.056 db. While these are not
perfectly matched, I don't claim to hear that small a difference, and particularly not when averaged across the file. Minimum and Maximum samples were all slightly over or under -6db, I assume the recording was mastered to -6db. Thus, not near clipping level.

The test above was done listening to the opening portion of the clip.

Here's a <30-second clip of the lossless source:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ost&id=7640
Here is the thread containing it:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....howtopic=102681

Playback chain is:
Lenovo PC desktop, files saved to hard drive
RME Babyface audio interface
Schiit Asgard 2 headphone amplifier
Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones

I'm posting this because I've read in other forums (not here; just joined) that MP3 at 256 kbs and 320 kbs are "transparent", indistinguishable from Redbook audio. I chose 320 as the highest quality available in MP3 - the difference is audible to me. They are certainly very close - listening in my car driving down the road I wouldn't hear the difference.

I have lots of professional musical experience, but my 50+ year-old ears apparently do not hear above 18 kHz. I know the basic principles of psychoacoustic masking used in MP3 lossy compression, but not well enough to know whether or not Ravel in live orchestra is more suited or less suited to accurate MP3 encoding. Alternative sample files for testing welcome. smile.gif

This post has been edited by greynol: Sep 18 2013, 00:30
Reason for edit: Added link to uploads forum and codebox.
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Posts in this topic
- UltimateMusicSnob   MP3 320 kbs vs Redbook ripped to WAV   Sep 17 2013, 02:42
- - greynol   Not all mp3 encoders are created equally? Have yo...   Sep 17 2013, 03:04
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 16 2013, 21:04) Not ...   Sep 17 2013, 03:27
|- - extrabigmehdi   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 17 2013, 03...   Sep 17 2013, 03:37
|- - testyou   QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Sep 16 2013, 19:37...   Sep 17 2013, 03:45
- - saratoga   Depends. ABXIng some codecs at 320kbps isn't ...   Sep 17 2013, 03:04
- - Makaki   Just in case your program did something funky: Co...   Sep 17 2013, 03:24
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (Makaki @ Sep 16 2013, 21:24) Just ...   Sep 17 2013, 04:36
- - binaryhermit   (Insert long-winded justification of the statement...   Sep 17 2013, 03:59
- - saratoga   ^^ Unless that music is in the public domain you...   Sep 17 2013, 04:51
- - UltimateMusicSnob   Sorry about the length mistake, moderators, it won...   Sep 17 2013, 04:59
|- - gib   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 16 2013, 17...   Sep 17 2013, 06:37
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (gib @ Sep 17 2013, 00:37) QUOTE (U...   Sep 17 2013, 07:08
|- - testyou   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 16 2013, 23...   Sep 17 2013, 07:17
|- - halb27   @UltimateMusicSnob: If you like to try lame3100l m...   Sep 17 2013, 08:04
- - testyou   I can't hear any difference between the two. ...   Sep 17 2013, 06:05
- - Makaki   I don't have the ears (or the equipment?) to A...   Sep 17 2013, 06:13
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (Makaki @ Sep 17 2013, 00:13) I don...   Sep 17 2013, 06:22
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (Makaki @ Sep 17 2013, 00:13) I don...   Sep 18 2013, 03:57
- - TomasPin   Maybe we got ourselves a new Killer Sample? It...   Sep 17 2013, 06:28
- - eahm   http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...ncode...   Sep 17 2013, 06:51
- - greynol   I believe there are documented cases where -h resu...   Sep 17 2013, 07:09
|- - gib   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 16 2013, 20:09) I be...   Sep 17 2013, 08:38
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 17 2013, 01:09) Last...   Sep 17 2013, 14:47
- - Wombat   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 17 2013, 05...   Sep 17 2013, 09:10
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (Wombat @ Sep 17 2013, 03:10) QUOTE...   Sep 17 2013, 14:09
|- - Cubist Castle   QUOTE (Wombat @ Sep 17 2013, 10:10) QUOTE...   Sep 17 2013, 16:24
- - Makaki   One reason could be that windows does hide file ex...   Sep 17 2013, 13:36
- - pdq   FWIW, I think the thinly-veiled accusation was out...   Sep 17 2013, 14:18
- - dhromed   Ultimate, could you please upload the wav in the U...   Sep 17 2013, 15:01
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (dhromed @ Sep 17 2013, 09:01) Ulti...   Sep 17 2013, 15:18
- - dhromed   I can't even begin to discern a difference, ev...   Sep 17 2013, 15:30
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (dhromed @ Sep 17 2013, 09:30) I ca...   Sep 17 2013, 16:30
- - Hex144   You may want to try 3.100 alpha 2, or 3100l (which...   Sep 17 2013, 21:44
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (Hex144 @ Sep 17 2013, 15:44) You m...   Sep 17 2013, 23:22
- - greynol   I was able to successfully ABX the Lame 3.99.5 sam...   Sep 17 2013, 23:59
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 17 2013, 17:59) I wa...   Sep 18 2013, 01:03
|- - halb27   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 18 2013, 02...   Sep 18 2013, 07:17
- - Wombat   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 18 2013, 02...   Sep 18 2013, 01:16
- - Mach-X   I noticed when messing with the 'lead voice...   Sep 18 2013, 05:02
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (Mach-X @ Sep 17 2013, 23:02) ...   Sep 18 2013, 05:53
- - Mach-X   Lead voice is one of the 'killer samples' ...   Sep 18 2013, 06:14
|- - stv014   QUOTE (Mach-X @ Sep 18 2013, 07:14) ...   Sep 18 2013, 18:47
|- - greynol   QUOTE (stv014 @ Sep 18 2013, 10:47) It is...   Sep 18 2013, 19:00
- - pdq   As a rule of thumb, if you are going to apply eq t...   Sep 18 2013, 13:28
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (pdq @ Sep 18 2013, 13:28) As a rul...   Sep 18 2013, 16:40
|- - greynol   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Sep 18 2013, 08:40) co...   Sep 18 2013, 17:01
|- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 18 2013, 17:01) QUOT...   Sep 18 2013, 17:06
- - greynol   Right. I suspect that uneven headphones are respo...   Sep 18 2013, 17:11
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 18 2013, 11:11) Righ...   Sep 18 2013, 18:47
|- - greynol   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 18 2013, 10...   Sep 18 2013, 19:12
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   To drag this back toward 'Listening Tests...   Sep 18 2013, 22:02
|- - Canar   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 18 2013, 14...   Sep 18 2013, 22:21
- - Wombat   QUOTE (Canar @ Sep 18 2013, 23:21) You...   Sep 18 2013, 22:56
|- - TomasPin   QUOTE (Wombat @ Sep 18 2013, 18:56) My ex...   Sep 19 2013, 00:31
|- - gib   QUOTE (TomasPin @ Sep 18 2013, 13:31) Eve...   Sep 19 2013, 01:26
||- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (gib @ Sep 18 2013, 19:26) QUOTE (T...   Sep 19 2013, 01:57
||- - TomasPin   QUOTE (gib @ Sep 18 2013, 21:26) QUOTE (T...   Sep 19 2013, 02:27
|- - testyou   QUOTE (TomasPin @ Sep 18 2013, 16:31) at ...   Sep 19 2013, 03:27
|- - TomasPin   QUOTE (testyou @ Sep 18 2013, 23:27) QUOT...   Sep 19 2013, 03:44
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (testyou @ Sep 18 2013, 23:27) QUOT...   Sep 19 2013, 19:27
|- - halb27   QUOTE (IgorC @ Sep 19 2013, 20:27) .. The...   Sep 19 2013, 19:44
|- - IgorC   QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 19 2013, 15:44) QUOTE...   Sep 19 2013, 19:56
- - greynol   There are people who can routinely discern 320 fro...   Sep 19 2013, 03:44
|- - TomasPin   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 18 2013, 23:44) Ther...   Sep 19 2013, 03:53
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 18 2013, 21:44) Ther...   Sep 19 2013, 04:22
|- - greynol   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 18 2013, 20...   Sep 19 2013, 19:43
|- - Mach-X   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 18 2013, 20...   Sep 20 2013, 06:14
- - UltimateMusicSnob   Okay, this was LAME 3100 at V0. This version remin...   Sep 19 2013, 03:59
|- - gib   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 18 2013, 16...   Sep 19 2013, 07:11
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (gib @ Sep 19 2013, 01:11) QUOTE (U...   Sep 19 2013, 16:11
- - halb27   Thank you for testing Lame 3100 (Lame 3.100a2?, la...   Sep 19 2013, 16:36
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 19 2013, 10:36) Thank...   Sep 19 2013, 17:47
- - halb27   IMO your listening test is valuable, especially as...   Sep 19 2013, 18:42
|- - greynol   QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 19 2013, 10:42) espec...   Sep 19 2013, 18:50
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 19 2013, 12:50) QUOT...   Sep 19 2013, 20:03
|- - greynol   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 19 2013, 12...   Sep 19 2013, 21:07
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (greynol @ Sep 19 2013, 15:07) QUOT...   Sep 19 2013, 21:42
|- - greynol   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 19 2013, 13...   Sep 19 2013, 21:55
- - halb27   I also think the recording is okay. The spot is ju...   Sep 19 2013, 20:31
- - UltimateMusicSnob   Okay, this is a replication under different playba...   Sep 19 2013, 23:16
- - Wombat   One thing to mention related to some people always...   Sep 20 2013, 02:49
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (Wombat @ Sep 19 2013, 20:49) One t...   Sep 20 2013, 03:55
- - Wombat   German only, maybe some onlinetranslator will help...   Sep 20 2013, 04:05
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (Wombat @ Sep 19 2013, 22:05) Germa...   Sep 20 2013, 07:19
- - UltimateMusicSnob   Okay, Ravel encoded in LAME 3100L using the recomm...   Sep 20 2013, 07:09
|- - gib   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 19 2013, 20...   Sep 20 2013, 10:12
||- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (gib @ Sep 20 2013, 04:12) QUOTE (U...   Sep 20 2013, 13:57
|- - halb27   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 20 2013, 08...   Sep 20 2013, 15:38
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (halb27 @ Sep 20 2013, 09:38) QUOTE...   Sep 20 2013, 15:49
- - Wombat   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 20 2013, 08...   Sep 20 2013, 11:42
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (Wombat @ Sep 20 2013, 05:42) I gue...   Sep 20 2013, 13:52
- - 2Bdecided   VBR sees low levels and thinks "I don't n...   Sep 20 2013, 14:46
|- - UltimateMusicSnob   QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Sep 20 2013, 08:46) [p...   Sep 20 2013, 15:40
- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (UltimateMusicSnob @ Sep 20 2013, 15...   Sep 20 2013, 15:51
- - pdq   Something this low in volume should compress extre...   Sep 20 2013, 17:08
- - greynol   Assuming we're still talking about lossy, what...   Sep 20 2013, 17:58
- - pdq   Sorry, I should have made myself more clear. 2Bde...   Sep 20 2013, 18:29
- - greynol   Oh, I get it now. I think David often likes to us...   Sep 20 2013, 18:37
- - pdq   I might have suggested that the OP try to ABX the ...   Sep 20 2013, 18:40
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