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A collection of anti-hifi [ripoff] information, cables, tweaks, expensive equipment...
jrbamford
post Sep 5 2003, 11:44
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I've often wrestled with the issue of hifi and whether its worth it or not...

I do believe they're are improvements to be had by spending a bit more... compared to an all in one mini system from an electronics store at 300 or more... or rather i used to believe it... its often difficult to try to even persuade hifi people to even consider the possibility of this.. obviously there is an element of protecting your investment in hardware (similar loyalties run deep in games consoles wars etc)...

Anyways i've seen links and discussions on this before, i thought it'd be good to try and collect all of this in one place.. I'm sure somewhere i got a stereophile article off someone on here (dibrom?!) about a blind test they did with interconnect or spaeaker wire.. using real cheap wire compared to some mid range hifi interconnect... few people managed to spot it... if any blindly...

Its this kind of information that'd be great to have to try and let people read about it and at least consider to potentially save them more money... so any articles, links to tests done or discussions would be great.. other than just informed discussion on this thread or links to other threads would be great...

Firstly i think it'd be good to confront the wires issue... leaving whether certain hifi equipment is even useful or not.. this kind of information would be more easily absorbed by hifi-ers than telling them that there really is no need to buy an expensive cd player if you already have one... also with dual output devices (my DAC has two outputs) its much easier to easily let ppl setup two interconnects and quickly switch to do some blind testing...

Thanks


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JeanLuc
post Sep 19 2003, 11:47
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QUOTE (ScorLibran @ Sep 19 2003, 09:40 AM)
I *do* see references to "conductivity" quite often, but what would an example of conductive variance between different quality cables be? And, again, does poor conductivity mean fewer electrons being sent at once? Are electrons transferred in parallel or in series. If it's the latter, then there is no "at once". So it would then be a matter of only speed for determining conductivity?

1. conductivity is the reciproke value of electrical specific resistance biggrin.gif
2. "speed" is not a problem ... alternate currents travel without any significant time-shift

OK, serious ...

there is more to cable than simple electric (in terms of pure Ohm) resistance ... besides inductivity and capacity which can affect high and low frequencies by losses (if I & C are high enough - that's what impedance is all about), there are some other effects like e.g. the "skin-effect" (high frequency currents are pushed towards the surface of the cable, reducing effective conduction diameter) which can make cables sound "lower" (could be a good idea to use cable with a lower surface area, if your speakers sound a little too analytic biggrin.gif )

I agree with 2bdecided that any major manufacturer could easily produce devices with matching electric specifications of their in- and outputs which would make any cable discussion (regarding capacity, inductivity etc.) absolutely useless ... there would be one good standard cable for all circumstances ...

I also agree with you guys that most people are not able to seriously ABX a difference between normal cables and overpriced so-called High-End-stuff ... but modern HiFi magazines state that as well and point out that no cable can significantly affect your stereo system's tonal balance (like different loudspeakers can) ... that's why ultra-expensive cables never get a "best buy" recommendation whatsoever ... what these magazines state is that you can influence certain characteristics of a stereo system in a marginal way that might be determined if listened very closely and concentrated.

My point of view, regarding mechanical components (like plugs) is based on my personal opinion as well as my engineer knowledge ... good-old mechanical properties are too often regarded as negligible ... that's why I wanted to point out that a proper plug's connection (this concerns optical toslink cables as well) is far more important (regarding future stability/reliability as well) than slight differences in cable material.

Edit: removed some errors in orthography ... rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by JeanLuc: Sep 19 2003, 11:51


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Posts in this topic
- jrbamford   A collection of anti-hifi [ripoff] information   Sep 5 2003, 11:44
- - ScorLibran   I like this idea! I've often wondered whe...   Sep 5 2003, 12:22
- - jrbamford   QUOTE And I've seen similar tests on cabling, ...   Sep 5 2003, 12:39
- - boojum   Wire is wire is wire. Heavy duty lamp cord will s...   Sep 5 2003, 13:36
- - 2Bdecided   It does cost money to do some things well. And it ...   Sep 5 2003, 13:45
- - jrbamford   QUOTE Wire is wire is wire. Heavy duty lamp cord w...   Sep 5 2003, 13:58
- - 2Bdecided   See my reply in the turntable thread. And if that ...   Sep 5 2003, 14:10
- - fewtch   Cable capacitance is also a big issue with moving ...   Sep 5 2003, 14:28
- - jrbamford   Thanks fewtch, i did wonder.. the one lead i would...   Sep 5 2003, 15:34
- - fewtch   I'd suggest using any well-shielded audio cabl...   Sep 5 2003, 15:51
- - jrbamford   The turntable i got has RCA inputs anyways so that...   Sep 5 2003, 16:23
- - DonP   In the case of phono: if your preamp/receiver can...   Sep 5 2003, 16:43
- - fewtch   QUOTE (jrbamford @ Sep 5 2003, 08:23 AM)So au...   Sep 5 2003, 17:05
- - Audible!   Speaker cable "differences' over average ...   Sep 5 2003, 23:01
- - jrbamford   Thanks Audible! great link.. thats what i...   Sep 5 2003, 23:35
- - Audible!   QUOTE wierd as he does sell these things yet says ...   Sep 6 2003, 00:53
- - ChrisGranger   I would like to see a properly conducted ABX test ...   Sep 6 2003, 10:22
- - ChrisGranger   Oh, and to reply to the initial post, I really thi...   Sep 6 2003, 10:34
- - DarkAngel   I lost almost all faith in high end hi-fi magazine...   Sep 6 2003, 11:43
- - Patsoe   QUOTE (jrbamford @ Sep 5 2003, 11:44 AM)...An...   Sep 6 2003, 23:39
- - polandro   If you want a link to a snake-oil type site try C...   Sep 7 2003, 00:23
- - Audible!   QUOTE It's silly. Do they rewire their CD play...   Sep 7 2003, 00:29
- - Bongoboy   QUOTE (jrbamford @ Sep 5 2003, 11:44 AM)Anywa...   Sep 7 2003, 00:50
- - Bongoboy   QUOTE (Audible! @ Sep 7 2003, 12:29 AM)Go...   Sep 7 2003, 01:24
- - Audible!   QUOTE First of all Galvanic Corrosion (or electrop...   Sep 7 2003, 02:03
- - Auric   I certainly think there's a difference, but on...   Sep 7 2003, 16:10
- - Audible!   QUOTE In other words, as long as long as the speak...   Sep 7 2003, 21:41
- - Bongoboy   QUOTE (Audible! @ Sep 7 2003, 02:03 AM)Th...   Sep 8 2003, 01:34
- - Bongoboy   QUOTE (Auric @ Sep 7 2003, 04:10 PM)The same ...   Sep 8 2003, 02:12
- - Pio2001   Could someone post the equivalence between AVG and...   Sep 17 2003, 23:00
- - DonP   QUOTE (Bongoboy @ Sep 7 2003, 08:12 PM)The re...   Sep 18 2003, 00:58
- - sthayashi   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Sep 17 2003, 02:00 PM)Could ...   Sep 18 2003, 05:38
- - Audible!   QUOTE Should I drop the cash and get more expensiv...   Sep 18 2003, 05:48
- - monkeyboy   Most copper is 99.9% Oxygen free. The main differ...   Sep 18 2003, 16:31
- - Audible!   QUOTE Now, whilst the listener may not instantly p...   Sep 19 2003, 00:01
- - jrbamford   I plan to record some outputs from my DAC20 (with ...   Sep 19 2003, 00:17
- - KikeG   At http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/stest you have a te...   Sep 19 2003, 07:48
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (Auric @ Sep 7 2003, 03:10 PM)The same ...   Sep 19 2003, 10:21
- - ScorLibran   Out of curiosity, I am wondering what any (theoret...   Sep 19 2003, 10:40
- - 2Bdecided   QUOTE (ScorLibran @ Sep 19 2003, 09:40 AM)Or ...   Sep 19 2003, 10:57
- - KikeG   QUOTE (ScorLibran @ Sep 19 2003, 10:40 AM)Onc...   Sep 19 2003, 11:00
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (ScorLibran @ Sep 19 2003, 09:40 AM)I *...   Sep 19 2003, 11:47
- - KikeG   QUOTE (JeanLuc @ Sep 19 2003, 11:47 AM)there ...   Sep 19 2003, 12:27
- - kennedyb4   This is a great thread. There have been many claim...   Sep 19 2003, 12:57
- - DonP   QUOTE (KikeG @ Sep 19 2003, 06:27 AM)Not most...   Sep 19 2003, 13:26
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (KikeG @ Sep 19 2003, 11:27 AM)even if ...   Sep 19 2003, 14:00
- - KikeG   QUOTE (JeanLuc @ Sep 19 2003, 02:00 PM)That...   Sep 19 2003, 14:20
- - bawjaws   A condensed version of this thread and the informa...   Sep 19 2003, 14:31
- - JeanLuc   QUOTE (KikeG @ Sep 19 2003, 01:20 PM)As I exp...   Sep 19 2003, 14:33
- - KikeG   QUOTE (JeanLuc @ Sep 19 2003, 02:33 PM)they c...   Sep 19 2003, 14:58
- - Pio2001   Skin Effect Summary. The skin effect in a cylindr...   Sep 19 2003, 22:06
- - Audible!   Very informative post Pio! QUOTE The usual r...   Sep 19 2003, 23:29
- - ChrisGranger   QUOTE (Audible! @ Sep 19 2003, 05:29 PM)Q...   Sep 20 2003, 01:01
- - Pio2001   Speaker cables recordings. Don't try this at ...   Sep 20 2003, 01:23
- - Audible!   QUOTE Loss = 20 log (0.98) = -0.2 dB But, but, but...   Sep 20 2003, 01:37
- - Pio2001   Then, looking at him you can ABX ?   Sep 20 2003, 03:10
- - Audible!   QUOTE Then, looking at him you can ABX ? Well, not...   Sep 20 2003, 03:37
- - ger@co   QUOTE (sthayashi @ Sep 17 2003, 10:38 PM .)Mo...   Sep 20 2003, 06:01
- - lucpes   The audio signal is alternative current, so it doe...   Sep 20 2003, 19:27
- - Audible!   QUOTE However, the "warm fuzzy feeling" ...   Sep 20 2003, 21:27
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (lucpes @ Sep 20 2003, 09:27 PM)The aud...   Sep 20 2003, 21:50
- - lucpes   QUOTE (ger@co @ Sep 20 2003, 05:01 AM)If you ...   Sep 20 2003, 22:05
- - Welly Wu   I certainly respect the opinions of my fellow HA m...   Sep 20 2003, 22:10
- - lucpes   QUOTE (Welly Wu @ Sep 20 2003, 09:10 PM)Furth...   Sep 20 2003, 22:25
- - fewtch   Welly Wu, I'll allow that cables may make a d...   Sep 20 2003, 22:25
- - lucpes   QUOTE (Welly Wu @ Sep 20 2003, 09:10 PM)...I ...   Sep 20 2003, 22:29
- - Audible!   QUOTE However, I agree to disagree that with respe...   Sep 20 2003, 22:35
- - Pio2001   QUOTE (Welly Wu @ Sep 21 2003, 12:10 AM)juxst...   Sep 21 2003, 00:04


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