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Realaudio 10 family includes HE-AAC
bond
post Jan 7 2004, 08:38
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according to a posting on doom9 from karl lillevold (a real developer) the realaudio 10 family includes now full aac support (including he-aac)

QUOTE (karl_lillevold)
RealAudio 10 : This is a family of audio codecs. New codecs are AAC, RealAudio Lossless, and RealAudio Multi-channel. RA8 (cook) is used for 96 kbps and below. HE-AAC in the form of aacPlus from Coding Technologies is included on Windows.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68245


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rc55
post Jan 7 2004, 12:09
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Aah, wicked!

RealMedia are still keeping the market competitive, so good to hear they are taking advantage of the latest technologies.

It's quite interesting to note that they are actually using Mpeg technologies now, where as previously it was either proprietary or licensed codec technology.

I wonder if the HE-AAC codec is available freely via the Helix Producer? This would be a first, all it would take from there is someone to make a realmedia to mp4 bitstream convertor... it might be a trivial task...

Ruairi


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danchr
post Jan 7 2004, 12:24
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QUOTE (rc55 @ Jan 7 2004, 12:09 PM)
This would be a first, all it would take from there is someone to make a realmedia to mp4 bitstream convertor... it might be a trivial task...

FFmpeg should be able to do this - they may have to update it, though, to recognise AAC in .rm files. The developers are quite responsive, though.
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guest0101
post Jan 7 2004, 13:50
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That's great news about AAC LC and HE AAC support being added to RealPlayer 10!

I wonder if they wrote the routines themselves or licensed HE AAC and AAC LC code from Nero Digital or Dolby?
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JohnV
post Jan 7 2004, 13:54
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Eeh, I think it says pretty clearly that it's Coding Technologies' codec version..


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blessingx
post Jan 7 2004, 14:11
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192 kbps AAC. Finally a decent bitrate for a music service (outside of Russia).
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JohnV
post Jan 7 2004, 14:15
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BTW. It's interesting to see, will Coding Technologies implement other upcoming MPEG4 AAC additions, like Parametric Stereo-coding. It's pretty impressive coming addition for very low bitrate (I've heard some 24kbps AAC PS streams).

My impression is that CT is more interested and stucked to the SBR technology it originally developed, and thus Real maybe could have done a better choice by choosing some other more dynamic partner than CT, of course I could be wrong. But anyway, CT's AAC-HE is pretty good according to the streams I've heard.


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bond
post Jan 7 2004, 18:52
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according to karl lillevold he-aac encoding will only be available trough the real producer sdk (not trough realplayer cause of licensing issues)

dunno if it will be possible to get a really usable encoder out of the sdk?


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rc55
post Jan 7 2004, 18:55
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Any chance of us hearing some AAC PS Streams, Juha McJuha?

Ruairi


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Latexxx
post Jan 7 2004, 18:57
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I bet that they'll release a new version of their command line encoder (which is based on their sdk). I just ask, are they really going to distribute Coding Technologies' aacPlus encoder for free? HE AAC might be only available to the paying customers.
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guest0101
post Jan 7 2004, 19:20
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Here's the answer from CodingTechnolgies.com web site today:

RealNetworks Licenses Technology and Software from Coding Technologies for MPEG-4 AAC / aacPlus

aacPlus available for decoding/playback with realPlayer10 - CD-quality for Internet streaming

Consumer Electronics Show 2004, Las Vegas, January 7 - RealNetworks, Inc., the leading creator of digital media services and software, and Coding Technologies, the leading provider of audio compression for the Internet, digital broadcasting and mobile, today announced the licensing and incorporation of Coding Technologies' MPEG-4 AAC / aacPlus technology and software within RealNetworks' commercial media creation and consumer software player products. As a result, high fidelity digital audio can now be created by using the newest version of its media encoding software product, RealProducer10. Additionally, third party encoding products that incorporate RealNetworks' Helix Producer SDK can produce content in RealAudio 10. By acquiring an additional license from Coding Technologies, these third party products can also produce content in MPEG-4 AAC and aacPlus.

RealNetworks' newest and best consumer player, RealPlayer 10, provides the most comprehensive media file playback including prior versions of the RealAudio file format, as well as the new RealAudio 10 with AAC, RealAudio10 Lossless and MultiChannel, MP3, WMA, MPEG-4 AAC, and aacPlus. Further, consumers can use RealPlayer 10 to convert music on their CDs into RealAudio10 with AAC, as well as access a vast online library of digital music from the new RealPlayer Music Store in high fidelity 192 Kbps RealAudio 10 with AAC.

By combining RealAudio 10 and RealNetworks' Helix DRM, a leading digital rights management platform, digital music can be securely and legally downloaded to RealPlayer 10 and then seamlessly transferred from the RealPlayer to a growing collection of consumer devices enabled to playback industry-leading MPEG-4 AAC.

"Coding Technologies' innovative technology and quality software implementation has contributed to RealNetworks' ability to deliver a great Internet music experience to consumers and provides our content partners the capability to encode their audio media at the industry's highest fidelity," said Nagesh Pabbisetty, vice president Consumer Products and Support, RealNetworks, Inc. "For portable music device manufacturers, incorporating support for our RealAudio 10 with AAC and our Helix DRM provides consumers with more choice and ability to legally download music and play it on the go, without compromising a high fidelity music experience."

"RealNetworks founded the streaming multimedia industry a decade ago via RealAudio and today through RealAudio 10, RealNetworks is once again transforming consumers' digital audio experience," said David Frerichs, vice president and U.S. General Manager, Coding Technologies. "RealAudio 10 and MPEG-4 aacPlus now give content providers high audio quality methods to deliver content to RealNetworks' growing installed base of RealPlayers."

About Coding Technologies
Coding Technologies provides the best audio compression for mobile, broadcasting, and Internet. SBR™ (Spectral Band Replication) from Coding Technologies is a backward and forward compatible method to enhance the efficiency of any audio codec; putting the "PRO" in mp3PRO and the "Plus" in aacPlus. SBR is a fundamental enabler of the Digital Radio Mondiale open standard and is a core component of MPEG-4 High Efficiency AAC.

Coding Technologies is a privately held company with offices in Sweden, Germany, and Silicon Valley. Founded in 1997 in Stockholm, the company later merged with a spin-off of the renowned Fraunhofer Institute in Germany, the inventor of MP3. Coding Technologies' customers include XM Satellite Radio, iBiquity Digital, SK Telecom, mmO2, Thomson, MusicMatch, and Texas Instruments.

This post has been edited by guest0101: Jan 7 2004, 19:24
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bond
post Jan 8 2004, 09:23
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once again news from karl lillevold:

"The HE-AAC DLL (racp.dll), with codec name 'racp', is not distributed with the Producer Application for licensing reasons, but it is included with the Producer SDK."

would be great if rjamorim maybe could make a compile for us smile.gif


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yourtallness
post Jan 8 2004, 11:31
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QUOTE
RealAudio10 Lossless


Hmmm... Interesting!
Wonder if it can cut it against FLAC and APE.


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rjamorim
post Jan 8 2004, 15:24
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QUOTE (bond @ Jan 8 2004, 06:23 AM)
would be great if rjamorim maybe could make a compile for us smile.gif

Where can I find this SDK?

From the looks of it, it is only available for software developers interested in adding Real Media reading and writing capabilities to their applications.


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karl_lillevold
post Jan 10 2004, 06:08
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Since my first post on doom9 I have added an FAQ , summarizing many of the answers regarding AAC and HE-AAC. Note that due to time constraints, not enough testing was done for HE-AAC, and there are bugs preventing both encoding and playback at the moment, but these have been fixed and will be released in the next interim Milestone. RealPlayer 10 plays back HE-AAC as ADTS, but not in RM due to this bug. Regular AAC should be no problem though.

Re RealAudio Lossless. According to my co-worker who did all the research and development, it is competitive with Monkey's audio, but I have not tried it much myself. When used in Producer it has more complexity levels and can compress with higher efficiency (and slower) than when ripping directly in RealPlayer 10. I'd be curious myself about its performance if any Lossless enthusiasts here try it out.

Thanks!


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AtaqueEG
post Jan 10 2004, 06:14
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QUOTE (karl_lillevold @ Jan 9 2004, 11:08 PM)
Regular AAC should be no problem though.

Does the PalmOs version of RealPlayer 10 play AAC?
If so, any kind of AAC, or only files from the Real store?


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ShadowLight
post Jan 10 2004, 12:18
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OK I have downloaded AACPlus Add-on for Windows from Helix Producer Community. If anyone interested that, they may go to the following address

https://helix-producer.helixcommunity.org

and register themselves, after that you have to agree one of the two license types (RPSL or RCSL) and then will be eligible to download all the binaries and source codes on the site for test and development purposes only.

Regards,

Onur Buyukcaglar,
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ShadowLight
post Jan 10 2004, 14:22
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Although I have downloaded and tried to encode with the new rac.dll. Its no use, both Producer 10 Preview and CommandLine is able to "see" the encoder dll (when you copy the dll to the codecs folder) and able to use (I have tried RealAudio with AACPlus @ 64 kbps which is the lowes bitrate for this codec it shows up) after a short time when the encoding session starts It was unable to finish the encoding all the time and locks up the encoding application.
Has anyone succeeded on this ?

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Latexxx
post Jan 10 2004, 14:39
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QUOTE
owever, there is a bug which prevents it from working
https://helix-dna.helixcommunity.or...bug.cgi?id=1108

Co-incidentally, there is also a bug in the decoder DLL that ships with RealPlayer 10 Beta, that prevents playing back HE-AAC in RM.

However, both bugs have been fixed, and it will be included in the next Milestone, or perhaps a patch before then.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&t...20&pagenumber=4
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Galley
post Jan 11 2004, 07:24
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QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Jan 9 2004, 09:14 PM)
QUOTE (karl_lillevold @ Jan 9 2004, 11:08 PM)
Regular AAC should be no problem though.

Does the PalmOs version of RealPlayer 10 play AAC?
If so, any kind of AAC, or only files from the Real store?

RealPlayer 1.5 for PalmOS plays RA10 files, .ra and .rax. I have purchased one song so far and tested it out on my Zire 71.
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