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finding offset reference CDs for EAC?
NatGun
post Feb 27 2004, 07:55
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so i looked through my entire CD collection and i do have a few reference CD titles, but the print numbers on the inside of the disk dont match up... what can i do? do i just need to buy a few titles from the reference CD list and hope i get a match? that kinda sucks if thats the case. anyone have any other ideas? should i just not worry about it? are offsets that important anyway?
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_Shorty
post Feb 27 2004, 08:36
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if you have a fairly popular drive, chances are you can find out what its offset is anyways. They don't tend to vary among different samples of the same drive. If you have a burner with a known write offset you can always make your own to test unknown drives with too.
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mmortal03
post Feb 27 2004, 08:50
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I would try AccurateRip at http://www.accuraterip.com/ . You will be a lot more successful with that than with EAC most probably.


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spoon
post Feb 27 2004, 10:05
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Or try EAC and AccurateRip together, available very soon wink.gif


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Pio2001
post Feb 27 2004, 11:36
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No need to worry about it. The audio data is error free with or without offset correction, and the tiny missing part is lost wether you correct offsets or not (unless you have a burner that overwrites).
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damjang
post Feb 27 2004, 12:05
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You can make a reference cd by yourself if you have a writer...
read more HERE.

damjang
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westgroveg
post Feb 27 2004, 12:11
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QUOTE (NatGun @ Feb 27 2004, 06:55 PM)
so i looked through my entire CD collection and i do have a few reference CD titles, but the print numbers on the inside of the disk dont match up...  what can i do? do i just need to buy a few titles from the reference CD list and hope i get a match? that kinda sucks if thats the case. anyone have any other ideas? should i just not worry about it? are offsets that important anyway?

Best idea is to make a EAC test CD with a offset corrected writer such as a Plextor as Plextools reports read/write offsets, once you make a test CD you can be sure the offset of any drive.
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tigre
post Feb 27 2004, 15:32
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NatGun: In case none of the already mentioned possibilities works for you, you can paste a list of the most popular CDs you have here (with 'print numbers'), then someone with offset-corrected drive and one of these CDs can rip a few seconds from the beginning of a track and send it to you. Rip yourself and use EAC "Compare WAVs..." (or a wave editor manually) to find the offset.


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Eli
post Feb 27 2004, 15:59
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QUOTE (spoon @ Feb 27 2004, 04:05 AM)
Or try EAC and AccurateRip together, available very soon wink.gif

Spoon, do u have any more details on that. When I last spoke with Andre re this in Nov he said it would be out in early Dec.


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JeanLuc
post Feb 27 2004, 16:24
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You want a reference CD ?

You know your burner's write offset or your read device's read offset correction value ?

Go ahead and burn your own reference CD ... EAC has this neat function which will create an offset test cd that can be universally used ...


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NatGun
post Feb 27 2004, 18:01
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i have a plextor px-708a 8x dvd burner, an asus 5224a 52x burner, and a pioneer dvd-120 dvd drive. anyone know what the offsets are for any of these drives? im gonna try and burn my own reference cd when i get home.

thanks guys.
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TwoJ
post Feb 27 2004, 20:04
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How can you determine if your burner supports overwriting into Lead-In and Lead-Out?

I specifically after my burner: Lite-On (LTR-40125S) 40x12x48

I found out that it has a -6 write offset, so overwriting into the lead-out.

The coaster factory database I think has been abandoned, is there another database that has more up to date information?

Thanks
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Kuranuk
post Feb 27 2004, 21:21
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QUOTE
The coaster factory database I think has been abandoned, is there another database that has more up to date information?


The AccurateRip database has a fair number of drives, but I don't know if it's posted on the web in any form; to find the offset for my DRU500A I used dBPowerAMP and AccurateRip, and just removed it afterwards. It's a fairly problem-free install/uninstall.

This does, actually, sound like exactly the kind of thing that HA might want to incorporate in the Knowledgebase...?
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Pio2001
post Feb 27 2004, 22:10
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You can get other offset databases, as well as a method to detect the overreading abilities in the FAQ
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TwoJ
post Feb 27 2004, 22:20
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Well I know my drive's write offset (-6) But does that mean it CAN write into the Lead In/Out?

I don't think so? So how does someone determine if the writer can write in the leadin/out?
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Pio2001
post Feb 27 2004, 23:50
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Set the write offset, generate a white noise with a noise editor, and burn it. Then rip it with offset correction and overread. If it is identical to the original, then your drives perfectly overread, and overwrite.
Instead of a white noise, you can use any wave file, but without a single silent sample at the end or at the beginning.
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paulgj
post Jul 19 2004, 09:23
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QUOTE (NatGun @ Feb 27 2004, 09:01 AM)
i have a plextor px-708a 8x dvd burner,  an asus 5224a 52x burner, and a pioneer dvd-120 dvd drive.  anyone know what the offsets are for any of these drives? im gonna try and burn my own reference cd when i get home. 

thanks guys.
*


In case you don't already have it. Here's the info for the PX-708A:

Brand: Plextor
Model/Type: PX-708A DVR+-RW
Firmware: 1.07
Accurate Stream: Yes
Audio Caching: Yes
C2 Error Retrieval: Yes
Read Command: D8
Read Offset Correction: +30
Overreading into Lead-In and Lead-Out: Yes
Read CD-TEXT Information: Yes
Gap/Index Retrieval Method: Detection Method A
Gap Detection Accuracy: Secure
EAC Write: Yes
Write Offset: -30
Overwriting into Lead-In and Lead-Out: Yes
Write UPC/ISRC Information: Yes
Write CD-TEXT Information: Yes
Average EAC Reading Speed: 2.4X (no C2) 3.4 (with C2)

This post has been edited by paulgj: Jul 19 2004, 09:24


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precisionist
post Jul 19 2004, 15:10
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QUOTE (mmortal03)
would try AccurateRip at http://www.accuraterip.com/ . You will be a lot more successful with that than with EAC most probably.


That pretty much depends on where one lives. EAC is a 'German' program; so for me the EAC key discs make absolutely no problem, since the CDs are from Andre and his friends, probably bought in Germany.
Vice versa, nearly none of the accuraterip CDs match with our CDs here.


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spoon
post Jul 20 2004, 09:42
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QUOTE (precisionist @ Jul 19 2004, 02:10 PM)
That pretty much depends on where one lives. EAC is a 'German' program; so for me the EAC key discs make absolutely no problem, since the CDs are from Andre and his friends, probably bought in Germany.
Vice versa, nearly none of the accuraterip CDs match with our CDs here.


Even more of a reason to configure it and submit some German CD pressings - help your country! smile.gif - I think EAC had something like 60 'key discs', AccurateRip has something like 11,000 it would seem odd if there were less than 60 german pressings, but possible I suppose.


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PoisonDan
post Jul 20 2004, 13:17
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QUOTE (paulgj @ Jul 19 2004, 10:23 AM)
QUOTE (NatGun @ Feb 27 2004, 09:01 AM)
i have a plextor px-708a 8x dvd burner,  an asus 5224a 52x burner, and a pioneer dvd-120 dvd drive.  anyone know what the offsets are for any of these drives? im gonna try and burn my own reference cd when i get home. 

thanks guys.
*


In case you don't already have it. Here's the info for the PX-708A:

Brand: Plextor
Model/Type: PX-708A DVR+-RW
Firmware: 1.07
Accurate Stream: Yes
Audio Caching: Yes
C2 Error Retrieval: Yes
Read Command: D8
Read Offset Correction: +30
Overreading into Lead-In and Lead-Out: Yes
Read CD-TEXT Information: Yes
Gap/Index Retrieval Method: Detection Method A
Gap Detection Accuracy: Secure
EAC Write: Yes
Write Offset: -30
Overwriting into Lead-In and Lead-Out: Yes
Write UPC/ISRC Information: Yes
Write CD-TEXT Information: Yes
Average EAC Reading Speed: 2.4X (no C2) 3.4 (with C2)
*


I can confirm that these settings are indeed correct (I also have the PX-708A), but my ripping speed is a lot higher than that! I can't give you exact numbers, but it's more like 5.5X - 11.0X without C2, and 7.7X - 14.0X with C2.
Do you have DMA disabled, or do you encode on-the-fly perhaps?


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Never_Again
post Jul 20 2004, 19:09
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EAC does NOT detect the read command correctly for Plextor drives. The correct read command is MMC1, and not D8. With D8, I've had EAC abort ripping with a read error on some CDs when everything extracted just fine (without multiple re-reads, even!) with MMC1.
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paulgj
post Jul 21 2004, 05:10
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QUOTE (PoisonDan @ Jul 20 2004, 04:17 AM)
QUOTE (paulgj @ Jul 19 2004, 10:23 AM)
QUOTE (NatGun @ Feb 27 2004, 09:01 AM)
i have a plextor px-708a 8x dvd burner,  an asus 5224a 52x burner, and a pioneer dvd-120 dvd drive.  anyone know what the offsets are for any of these drives? im gonna try and burn my own reference cd when i get home. 

thanks guys.
*


In case you don't already have it. Here's the info for the PX-708A:

Brand: Plextor
Model/Type: PX-708A DVR+-RW
Firmware: 1.07
Accurate Stream: Yes
Audio Caching: Yes
C2 Error Retrieval: Yes
Read Command: D8
Read Offset Correction: +30
Overreading into Lead-In and Lead-Out: Yes
Read CD-TEXT Information: Yes
Gap/Index Retrieval Method: Detection Method A
Gap Detection Accuracy: Secure
EAC Write: Yes
Write Offset: -30
Overwriting into Lead-In and Lead-Out: Yes
Write UPC/ISRC Information: Yes
Write CD-TEXT Information: Yes
Average EAC Reading Speed: 2.4X (no C2) 3.4 (with C2)
*


I can confirm that these settings are indeed correct (I also have the PX-708A), but my ripping speed is a lot higher than that! I can't give you exact numbers, but it's more like 5.5X - 11.0X without C2, and 7.7X - 14.0X with C2.
Do you have DMA disabled, or do you encode on-the-fly perhaps?
*




Nope, I check the DMA setting and that is fine. No encoding on the fly. Just straight ripping to WAV's.
I am using secure mode with all three sub-options selected, extraction priority "Normal". Should I maybe be using "fast" extraction? I'm not sure what other options would affect the reading speed. I am using Firmware version 1.07 if that helps.

I'm also curious if different format of CD's can result in lowered speeds. Do you always get these higher speeds? Where is your speed reported?

Also not sure if the CPU makes a huge difference but I have a 1.4 Mhz celeron on an old 100Mhz bus Dell Dimension.

Now you've got me concerned unsure.gif


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paulgj
post Jul 21 2004, 05:11
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QUOTE (Never_Again @ Jul 20 2004, 10:09 AM)
EAC does NOT detect the read command correctly for Plextor drives. The correct read command is MMC1, and not D8. With D8, I've had EAC abort ripping with a read error on some CDs when everything extracted just fine (without multiple re-reads, even!) with MMC1.
*


How did you find out that MMC1 is the read code to use?


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PoisonDan
post Jul 21 2004, 13:10
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QUOTE (paulgj @ Jul 21 2004, 06:10 AM)
I am using secure mode with all three sub-options selected, extraction priority "Normal". Should I maybe be using "fast" extraction?  I'm not sure what other options would affect the reading speed. I am using Firmware version 1.07 if that helps.
*

My setup is 100% identical to yours: 1.07 firmware, secure mode with all three options enabled, normal priority, ... and I use the default EAC options for everything else. I don't know of any option that will speed up the extraction.

QUOTE
I'm also curious if different format of CD's can result in lowered speeds.  Do you always get these higher speeds? Where is your speed reported?

I get these numbers with new or nearly-new, unprotected discs. When the discs are scratched or copy-protected, my speeds are lower of course.

I just ripped the latest Slipknot CD (Vol. 3: The Subliminal Verses), and here is a screenshot:
http://users.skynet.be/bk343709/Images/ripped.png

This CD holds about 60 minutes of music. For a 80-minute CD, the maximum speed will of course be higher (that's where I get the 14.0X from).

QUOTE
Also not sure if the CPU makes a huge difference but I have a 1.4 Mhz celeron on an old 100Mhz bus Dell Dimension.

My CPU is faster (2533MHz P4 at 2850Mhz/600MHz FSB), but I don't think it should make that much difference. If you have DMA enabled, the CPU usage should be really low. How much CPU usage do you have while ripping?

QUOTE
Now you've got me concerned  unsure.gif

Sorry, I'm afraid I can't really explain this difference myself.

Edit: As a side note, that Slipknot CD has an album gain of -11.4 (!) and clips like hell. Ouch. pinch.gif

This post has been edited by PoisonDan: Jul 21 2004, 13:45


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Never_Again
post Jul 27 2004, 13:14
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QUOTE (paulgj @ Jul 21 2004, 12:11 AM)
How did you find out that MMC1 is the read code to use?
*

Very simple: extraction is generally slower with D8 and often aborts with read errors. MMC1 is a more generic command AFAIK, but it works much better with both Plextors (the Premium and the PX-712) here.
Give MMC1 a try, that should speed up your ripping some. Another thing to remember is that upon insertion Plextor drives thoroughly analyze discs and determine optimal read speed, thus poorly recorded/manufactured, dirty and unbalanced discs will be read at lower speeds.

This post has been edited by Never_Again: Jul 27 2004, 13:16
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