foo_pod - Foobar2000 meets the iPod, iPod -> Foobar2000 0.8 Options

[burriko]

I just want to add a thank you for writing such a fantastic plugin, it's pretty much transformed the way i use my iPod now that i can do everything from within foobar2k.
I do have a couple of small suggestions too. Would it be possible for the foo_pod playlist name to be the same as the iPod's name? And would it be possible for the foo_pod playlist to automatically be created when the iPod is plugged in? Basically so that when i plug in my iPod the playlist 'Graeme's iPod' would automatically be created.

Thanks.

[Aero]

I just want to add a thank you for writing such a fantastic plugin, it's pretty much transformed the way i use my iPod now that i can do everything from within foobar2k.
I do have a couple of small suggestions too.  Would it be possible for the foo_pod playlist name to be the same as the iPod's name?  And would it be possible for the foo_pod playlist to automatically be created when the iPod is plugged in?  Basically so that when i plug in my iPod the playlist 'Graeme's iPod' would automatically be created.

Those are both good ideas!

The only problem I can see with using the iPod's name as the playlist name is that it might already be in use (i.e. it is unlikely, but you might already have a "Graeme's iPod" playlist open). In that case, I guess foo_pod would have to replace the existing playlist with the contents of the iPod.

Also, adding the playlist when the iPod is connected also implies that the playlist would be removed when the iPod is ejected.

In foo_pod, I would keep the current preferences for the playlist name and the automatically update checkbox, so the behavior could be overridden. I'll see about adding this to the next foo_pod release.

[rexy]

Another ramification of doing the on connect thing is that you have to be running the iPod service (which I, personally, disabled due to current uselessness).
But if you do end up creating it, be sure to add a corresponding listener to pod.h. That would be awesome for personalized fast syncing, even if I'll have to re-enable the iPod service and waste like a bunch of RAM. Maybe you can make a third party, lean iPod service and maybe make it all powerful with awesome features that the iPod firmware supports but Apple refuses to make public? (like you did with smart playlists) Okay maybe I'm just making up stuff that aren't at all feasible... but are they? Cause that would be hella awesome.

[Aero]

Another ramification of doing the on connect thing is that you have to be running the iPod service (which I, personally, disabled due to current uselessness).
But if you do end up creating it, be sure to add a corresponding listener to pod.h. That would be awesome for personalized fast syncing, even if I'll have to re-enable the iPod service and waste like a bunch of RAM. Maybe you can make a third party, lean iPod service and maybe make it all powerful with awesome features that the iPod firmware supports but Apple refuses to make public? (like you did with smart playlists) Okay maybe I'm just making up stuff that aren't at all feasible... but are they? Cause that would be hella awesome.

Nope - I can just detect when the iPod hardware is connected - no iPodService required.

As far duplicating iPodService, that would require a lot of low level reverse engineering. Although as I was thinking about your post, I thought about the "waste a bunch of RAM" part, and thought of a new feature. I could add an option to shutdown the iPodService (if present) when Foobar exits. Also kill iTunesHelper all of the time, since it doesn't seem to do anything useful. Its purpose is unknown, but I believe it has something to the initial iPod user registration. It seems to collect user supplied data (like iPod Serial Number and the user's name, zip code, and occupation?!?) and sends it to "littlebuddy.apple.com".

[rexy]

littlebuddy.apple.com?! That's a funky hostname. Haha. Anyway, managing the iPod service like that sounds like a good idea... but... err... what are the benefits of running it anyway? I can still have a unique name for my iPod and have it in disk mode without the iPod service... is there anything else?
And iTunesHelper can easily be killed through startup tweaking so that's not an issue, but you might wanna have a button like "Remove iTunesHelper from startup" that will simply remove its startup entry.

[Aero]

littlebuddy.apple.com?! That's a funky hostname. Haha. Anyway, managing the iPod service like that sounds like a good idea... but... err... what are the benefits of running it anyway? I can still have a unique name for my iPod and have it in disk mode without the iPod service... is there anything else?
And iTunesHelper can easily be killed through startup tweaking so that's not an issue, but you might wanna have a button like "Remove iTunesHelper from startup" that will simply remove its startup entry.

There aren't many benefits, but the main ones are being able to get the iPod name (for the playlist naming thing), and being able to do a soft eject (which means you can mount it again without having to undock the iPod).

BTW, one problem I have discovered with stopping the iPodService is that it takes upto a minute after starting it again before it recognizes any connected iPods. It must detect iPods when they are connected, as well as a via a timer set to go off once a minute. So I'll keep the feature in there, but it probably best not to use it .

Also, iTunesHelper might be part of Windows startup, but I also believe iTunes (or possibly iPodService) also starts it. Stopping iPodService also closed iTunesHelper, so they are somewhat related.

[rexy]

Is there no function in the service's API to force it to look for an iPod, ignoring the timer?
And your experience with iTunesHelper seems to contradict my experience: I had the iPod service running just fine with iTunesHelper never ever running and off the startup list.

[Aero]

Is there no function in the service's API to force it to look for an iPod, ignoring the timer?

Not that I'm aware of.

And your experience with iTunesHelper seems to contradict my experience: I had the iPod service running just fine with iTunesHelper never ever running and off the startup list.

I'm not certain on how and when iTunesHelper is started, but I know in my case, it not started by Windows (the excellent Autoruns utility verifies this), yet sometimes it is running after I exit iTunes. So either iTunes or iPodService is starting it, and since closing iPodService also caused iTunesHelper to exit, there seems to be some connection there.

[Espique]

Hello,

thanks for foo_pod. It replaced all my other pod software! I have a couple of questions but first of all I have a suggestion: This forum thread is getting HUGE! and thus, it is getting unclear and very cluttered. Makes it hard for occasional visitors who just seeks basic foo_pod information oto actually find any.

Since the thread is huge I suppose the interest in the plugin is huge. Why not create a sub-forum here so the thread can be split up into different topics? A website or at least a sticky post containing FAQs and the likes would also be very helpful...

I'd be willing to help, too.

Sascha

[Espique]

Question:

As I understand foo_pod, you manage the iPod songs through the foobar ipod playlist. How do you create custom playlists for files that are already on the pod? Say I have 5 albums of one artist on the pod and now I want to create a favorites playlist that displays under the iPod's playlist menu item. How?

Also, what's the difference between "send files to Ipod" and "Sync Playlist"?

And next: Are smart playlists automatically updated when plugging the pod in?

Thanks,
Sascha

[Aero]

thanks for foo_pod. It replaced all my other pod software! I have a couple of questions but first of all I have a suggestion: This forum thread is getting HUGE! and thus, it is getting unclear and very cluttered. Makes it hard for occasional visitors who just seeks  basic foo_pod information oto actually find any.

Since the thread is huge I suppose the interest in the plugin is huge. Why not create a sub-forum here so the thread can be split up into different topics? A website or at least a sticky post containing FAQs and the likes would also be very helpful...

Getting cluttered and unclear? I thought the foo_pod forum was always cluttered and unclear!

But you do have a point - documentation for foo_pod is basically non-existant. I've already had an offer to help write documentation, but I have been negligent in providing information, so far, since foo_pod is still adding major features such as the smart playlist editor.

Version 1.0 will need to have some sort of documentation and a FAQ, as well as a simple installer.

[Aero]

As I understand foo_pod, you manage the iPod songs through the foobar ipod playlist. How do you create custom playlists for files that are already on the pod? Say I have 5 albums of one artist on the pod and now I want to create a favorites playlist that displays under the iPod's playlist menu item. How?

If you create Foobar playlists with the same songs that are already on the iPod, foo_pod will create the playlist but not copy the duplicate songs. Creating a smart playlist is also another solution.

Also, what's the difference between "send files to Ipod" and "Sync Playlist"?

Send means copy the selected files to the iPod, unless they are already there. Sync Playlist means add and/or delete songs from the iPod so that it matches the Foobar playlist or playlists.

And next: Are smart playlists automatically updated when plugging the pod in?

Currently, nothing happens automatically when the iPod is plugged in. The smart playlists are updated when you click Apply in the smart playlist editor, or when you add songs to the iPod.

[SNAG]

Just to OT a little:
The 4G iPod has been exposed on the upcoming issue of Newsweek. Specifications are uncertain though.

http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/pic.cgi...jpg&p=newipods2

From the first impressions of it, I think I still prefer the 3G design...

[rmoody]

I agree with SNAG. I see the difference between the 3G and 4G to be about the same as the difference between the 1G and 2G. Some minor cosmetic differences, minor size differences and a change in the controls. I think I would just as soon wait for a 5G to upgrade. I think the biggest difference would be in the processor. I think I read that the processor that the mini uses fixes a flaw in the cache (or something) making the possibility of playing OGG more of a reality than before.

[Aero]

Just to OT a little:
The 4G iPod has been exposed on the upcoming issue of Newsweek. Specifications are uncertain though.

http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/pic.cgi...jpg&p=newipods2

From the first impressions of it, I think I still prefer the 3G design...

Yeah, although the 4G iPod looks to be a little shorter than previous versions, it doesn't seem that much shorter to justify removing the buttons. One thing that struck me is the "Music" menu item - as if actually playing music is just another feature now rather than the main focus. OTOH, maybe they just renamed "Playlists"...

Hopefully there will be updated firmware for 3G and earlier iPods as well, but I'm not holding my breath. Like Pete Townsend said, "I got to move with the fashion, or be outcast.".

[Lew_Zealand]

Also, what's the difference between "send files to Ipod" and "Sync Playlist"?

Send means copy the selected files to the iPod, unless they are already there. Sync Playlist means add and/or delete songs from the iPod so that it matches the Foobar playlist or playlists.

Unless there's been a code change recently, you need to understand that "sync" will remove everything from your iPod except what you're syncing. So, if you're syncing only one playlist, but you used to have multiple playlists on your iPod, they will all be removed, and the synced one will remain (including changes to that playlist if it already existed on the iPod.

I don't believe there is yet a way to update the contents of a single playlist, as send just adds songs, doesn't remove. (For example, if you had a playlists of Beatle albums, and you decided you needed to take "Let It Be...Naked" out of rotation.) Then again, I could be wrong.

Also, I believe just sending files by right-clicking a group of songs (as opposed to sending a playlist) will add the songs to your iPod, but it won't associate them to a specific playlist (but of course, if they're properly tagged, you shouldn't have any issues finding them by artist/album/song.

[ronyzyz1]

I was just syncing all playlists with my iPod, which was almost completely filled with documents I store there for work, and I ran out of diskspace halfway through. So i moved some work files from the iPod to the hard drive and restarted the Sync all playlists. foo_pod figured everything out, didn't delete anything more and just copied all the files over that it should.

However, and I am not sure if this is foo_pod's fault... When I look in iPod_Control\Music, I see that folders F00-F19 have the hidden attribute, while F20-F49 do not. Is this done on purpose or not?

Edit:
Oh, and foo_pod also created my playlist named Radio (which contains some radio station HTTP streams) even though I selected to ignore it by right-clicking the playlist tab. It doesn't contain any entries, it is just a blank Radio playlist on the iPod.

This post has been edited by DocUK: Jul 19 2004, 01:11

[Aero]

However, and I am not sure if this is foo_pod's fault... When I look in iPod_Control\Music, I see that folders F00-F19 have the hidden attribute, while F20-F49 do not. Is this done on purpose or not?

iTunes creates the Fnn directories with the hidden attribute, but foo_pod doesn't.

What happened is that you had F00 - F19 that were created by iTunes (or when you first formatted your iPod), and when you updated your iPod, foo_pod created F20 - F49. Originally, iTunes (and foo_pod) only created F00 - F19, but as of the latest iTunes, it now creates F00 through F49. So I changed foo_pod to also create F00 - F49 - the more directories, the less likely there will be filename conflicts.

Edit:
Oh, and foo_pod also created my playlist named Radio (which contains some radio station HTTP streams) even though I selected to ignore it by right-clicking the playlist tab. It doesn't contain any entries, it is just a blank Radio playlist on the iPod.

Are you sure you ignored the Radio playlist? You can't right click on a tab and have that playlist be ignored - what you need to do is select the playlist first, then right click to ignore it. If you select the Radio playlist, and it is already ignored, then there is a foo_pod bug.

[ronyzyz1]

However, and I am not sure if this is foo_pod's fault... When I look in iPod_Control\Music, I see that folders F00-F19 have the hidden attribute, while F20-F49 do not. Is this done on purpose or not?

iTunes creates the Fnn directories with the hidden attribute, but foo_pod doesn't.

What happened is that you had F00 - F19 that were created by iTunes (or when you first formatted your iPod), and when you updated your iPod, foo_pod created F20 - F49. Originally, iTunes (and foo_pod) only created F00 - F19, but as of the latest iTunes, it now creates F00 through F49. So I changed foo_pod to also create F00 - F49 - the more directories, the less likely there will be filename conflicts.

I have never used iTunes, but wouldn't it be better for foo_pod to have the option of emulating iTunes more closely - i.e An option for setting the maximum amount of FXX directories, and having them all hidden?

Edit:
Oh, and foo_pod also created my playlist named Radio (which contains some radio station HTTP streams) even though I selected to ignore it by right-clicking the playlist tab. It doesn't contain any entries, it is just a blank Radio playlist on the iPod.

Are you sure you ignored the Radio playlist? You can't right click on a tab and have that playlist be ignored - what you need to do is select the playlist first, then right click to ignore it. If you select the Radio playlist, and it is already ignored, then there is a foo_pod bug.

I am very sure that I ignored it properly. However, I will attempt to reproduce this playlist-creation tonight.

[Otto42]

I have never used iTunes, but wouldn't it be better for foo_pod to have the option of emulating iTunes more closely - i.e An option for setting the maximum amount of FXX directories, and having them all hidden?

Doesn't really matter that much, in this particular case. iTunes can cope with whatever foo_pod does in that respect. The iPod doesn't care whether the directories are hidden or not, iTunes will make them hidden if you happen to use it (or maybe not, either way, it's unimportant). And older iTunes versions can cope with the extra amount of directories. So really, this is kind of a moot point.

The real reason for the extra directories isn't due to filename conflicts (although that is a potential possibility), but due to the way the iPod reads directory structures. When it's going through a FAT32 filesystem, and it wants to load up a song, it has to read the directory structure in order until it finds the file it's looking for. All systems reading FAT32 must do this, actually. With the iPod, it causes a problem because it'll starve the decoder while looking for the file if the number of files in the directories get too large, and this causes issues like songs getting skipped over and such. Anyway, more directories = faster lookups on songs, and as they increase the size of iPod drives, this becomes pretty crucial. I'm somewhat surprised that they didn't push it up to F99 already.

But the iPod itself doesn't care what the directories are. You could call them G## or name them after the planets or the stars in the sky or cartoon characters. Whatever, it's just looking up the file's location in the database and passing it along. iTunes uses F## directories, which is why you want to stick to that for compatibility reasons. But there's no need to go overboard in the fiddly unimportant bits. There's enough other important fiddly bits to keep the programmer occupied for the moment.

If you didn't care about maintaining iTunes compatibility, it might be simplest and best to simply arrange the tracks in an artist/album/tracknum_songname.ext method. This would provide for fast enough lookups in most all cases I can come up with, while making it easier to find files on the iPod directly if you wanted to copy them back off the thing.

This post has been edited by Otto42: Jul 19 2004, 10:42

[ronyzyz1]

So it is more a question of "why not do it?" than "why do it?"...

[Otto42]

So it is more a question of "why not do it?" than "why do it?"...

Not really. It's more a question of seeing that it's compatible enough as is, and not bothering to worry about the unimportant minor details that don't really matter anyway.

[rexy]

Nope: http://www.apple.com/ipod/download/
The new firmware only updates the new iPods with all the neat stuff, but I can really live without all those features and the reduction in dimensions isn't that significant, nevertheless desirable.
I wonder if the iPod database interface Otto created will need updating to work with the new iPod. How was it when the mini was released?

[rufu]

Nope: http://www.apple.com/ipod/download/
The new firmware only updates the new iPods with all the neat stuff, but I can really live without all those features and the reduction in dimensions isn't that significant, nevertheless desirable.
I wonder if the iPod database interface Otto created will need updating to work with the new iPod. How was it when the mini was released?

Since they haven't had to release a update to iTunes to handle the new iPods I would assume that nothing has changed in terms of the interface with the iPod database.

[Otto42]

I wonder if the iPod database interface Otto created will need updating to work with the new iPod. How was it when the mini was released?

I made no changes specifically to support the mini. And as far as I can tell, iTunes, which creates the databases, creates the same kind every time, regardless of what kind it's connected to. So far, anyway.

The multiple OTGPlaylist support will require changes to foo_pod, but I'm betting that it's just using multiple OTGPlaylist files and so should be relatively easy. But, no way to tell until somebody gets ahold of a 3.0 iPod and lets us know. Annoyingly, multi-OTGplaylists and deleting from OTGPlaylists should be software only and thus they could probably add these to the 3rd gen iPods.