foo_pod - Foobar2000 meets the iPod, iPod -> Foobar2000 0.8 Options

[BUSH]

No, foo_pod does not currently support transferring play counts from the PC to the iPod (it does transfer from the iPod to the PC, though).

Does it mean that the total shown on foobar is a cumlative total for times played on pc + times played on ipod eg:

Play a song on pc 10 times -> transfer to ipod and play 3 times -> connect ipod to back to pc:

Does play_count on foobar for the version kept on the pc show:

13 times ( pc play_count + ipod play_count)

or

3 times ( Ipod playcount overwriting pc playcount data)


sorry if thats not very clear

[Aero]

Does it mean that the total shown on foobar is a cumlative total for times played on pc + times played on ipod eg:

Play a song on pc 10 times -> transfer to ipod and play 3 times -> connect ipod to back to pc:

Does play_count on foobar for the version kept on the pc show:

13 times ( pc play_count + ipod play_count)

or

3 times ( Ipod playcount overwriting pc playcount data)

In your example, foo_pod would report (in the IPOD_PLAY_COUNT metadata item, so it wouldn't overwrite any other component's metadata) that the song had been played 3 times. I purposefully made it so that foo_pod would only consider songs that had been played on the iPod itself, since Foobar doesn't store the play count without an optional component.

But I'm willing to reconsider counting both iPod and Foobar plays, if people think that is the right thing to do (I noticed that iTunes seems to count plays in both iTunes and on the iPod).

[ndrake]

Version 0.9.3 is now available

Great release! Thanks for including my idea about sorting the files read from the ipod db.

I'd like to chime in that it would be nice if foo_pod had an option to work in concert with the playcount plugin to maintain the number of times you've played a song in foobar and the ipod. It would make the playcount actually useful for someone like me who plays music more on the ipod than at home.

[ronyzyz1]

But I'm willing to reconsider counting both iPod and Foobar plays, if people think that is the right thing to do (I noticed that iTunes seems to count plays in both iTunes and on the iPod).

I'd like to chime in that it would be nice if foo_pod had an option to work in concert with the playcount plugin to maintain the number of times you've played a song in foobar and the ipod.  It would make the playcount actually useful for someone like me who plays music more on the ipod than at home.

Yeah I can't really understand why the playcount from foobar2000 isn't counted in either. It would be the only sensible and semantically correct thing to do, as it would reflect many times the file actually has been played. Also, if iTunes does it, I think there should be no question that this is the way things should be done.

Or, alternatively, a preferences item to choose between them: "iPod count, foobar2000 count, or both"

[Espique]

hi,

the readme for 0.9.3 talks about improvements with the NERO encoder presets for transcoding. I can't find that anywhere in the config. The config only has lame and faac. ???

thanks,
sascha

[Storm]

Yeah I can't really understand why the playcount from foobar2000 isn't counted in either. It would be the only sensible and semantically correct thing to do, as it would reflect many times the file actually has been played. Also, if iTunes does it, I think there should be no question that this is the way things should be done.

Or, alternatively, a preferences item to choose between them: "iPod count, foobar2000 count, or both"

I totally second (third) this.

[Aero]

the readme for 0.9.3 talks about improvements with the NERO encoder presets for transcoding. I can't find that anywhere in the config. The config only has lame and faac. ???

The preconfigured presets are only for LAME and FAAC, but you can use just about any command line encoder with the Custom Encoder Settings options.

To use Nero's AAC encoder, first you need put a copy of NAACEnc in your Foobar2000 directory. Then go to the foo_pod Transcoder preferences, select Use Custom Encoder, and click the settings button.

This image demonstrates how you should set the settings for use with NAACEnc (you can modify the "-internet -qf" part depending on your encoding quality choice).

For the next version of foo_pod, I might add a set of radio buttons to choose between FAAC and Nero, now that a good command line interface for Nero is available. Or maybe just squeeze some Nero defaults in there as well.

[reardon]

For the next version of foo_pod, I might add a set of radio buttons to choose between FAAC and Nero, now that a good command line interface for Nero is available.  Or maybe just squeeze some Nero defaults in there as well.

Why use commandline at all? Why not use foo_nero diskwriter or similar and make it graphical?

+Reardon

[Aero]

Why use commandline at all?  Why not use foo_nero diskwriter or similar and make it graphical?

I could make it graphical (by that, I assume you mean have a progress dialog) with the current transcoder, at least for LAME and FAAC.

The reason I am using the command line interface is because it makes it easy for anyone to add support for a new encoder/interface (like NAACEnc). Also, I personally use LAME, FAAC, and NeroAAC, which would mean that I would have to interface with 3 separate libraries as opposed to having a single piece of code that works with everything today and in the future.

[overthink]

Hi there,

First off: foo_pod is fantastic -- thank you Aero and any other developers who've been involved. I wouldn't have bought my iPod were it not for this component -- Apple should be cutting you guys in.

I've been using foo_pod successfully for a month or so, but I still feel like I'm probably not using it "correctly". That is, the standard use case is not obvious to me

1) How are most people managing what's on the iPod? Just via the "Load iPod Songs to Foobar 2000 Playlist" and then "deleting selected" and "send files to ipod" etc?

2) I had been syncing to a single playlist... but that smokes any smart playlists on the pod which is a bit annoying (though not terrible)

3) If I transfer a bunch of files to the iPod and then rate some of them on the (disconnected) iPod, is there a way to have those ratings automagically persisted back (when the pod is docked) to the source files in my main collection (as ID3 tags or something)? Same goes for things like play count, last played, etc...

Ideally meta info would live on in the actual source mp3 file on my HDD (as opposed to only on the ipod), thus allowing me to wipe the ipod clean periodically but not lose ratings and other meta info.

Technical question: how does the iPod determine sameness in files? If I try to copy the same track to the pod twice, obviously it doesn't make two copies of it. Is it hashed, or based on tags, or filename, or something else?

If these are answered somewhere else in this (long) thread, I apologize, but I wasn't able to find them.

Any input or suggestions is appreciated -- Thanks!

[mobyduck]

First of all, apologies for this OT message.

I have just received a new 20G click-wheel iPod and I'm looking for a general advice about how to get the most out of it (and this is the place I trust most for this kind of question ).

I'd like to use it as portable MP3 player (of course) and to transfer data between office/home PCs (Win2k/XP-Pro, USB2.0).

1) What are the *minimum* SW requirements? I'd stay away from iTunes, if possible, and use Fb2k/foo_pod: what other program (if any) is needed?

2) Can I have both functions (player and data repository) at the same time or are they mutually exclusive?

3) I'll read with interest any suggestion or comment from you and pointers to *good* source of information on the subject.

Thanks for your time.

Alessandro

[Mike Giacomelli]

You only need foobar/foo_pod.

You can use the player while copying files to the Ipod.

This thread is actually a pretty good place to read up on how the Ipod works.

[mobyduck]

Thanks for your reply Mike.

> You only need foobar/foo_pod.

That's good news: had a look at iTunes and quickly got rid of it... brrr...

> This thread is actually a pretty good place to read up on how the Ipod works.

Well, sure... but it's a bit time consuming (and perhaps too "technical" for me): guess I'm looking for a "foo_pod for dummies" guide .

Anyway, I'll tinker about with it for a while and try to figure out its basic features.

Regards.

Alessandro

[mobyduck]

Hi again!

Congrats to Aero, Otto and everybody here for this great plugin!

It's really simple to use and quite fast.

Now a few questions:

1) In Preferences / iPod Service tab: Device Name, Owner's Name and Enable Disk Mode are empty and greyed out: is this normal? And is Stop iPod Service on Exit recommended or should I leave it unchecked?

2) I set foobar to write APEv2 and ID3v1 tags, but some files contain old ID3v2 tags too: foo_pod, if I'm not mistaken, seems to be using the latter to write info in iPod db. Is it possible to set foo_pod so that it uses APEv2/ID3v1 first?

3) What is the Enable Sync checkbox? I tried checking it but I see no difference...

Thanks.

Alessandro

[Aero]

Congrats to Aero, Otto and everybody here for this great plugin!

It's really simple to use and quite fast.

Thanks!

1) In Preferences / iPod Service tab: Device Name, Owner's Name and Enable Disk Mode are empty and greyed out: is this normal? And is Stop iPod Service on Exit recommended or should I leave it unchecked?

That probably means that you don't have iTunes/iPod Service installed, or iTunes is already running when you start Foobar2000. iPodService is necessary to utilize those features, but foo_pod works perfectly well without it.

I would recommend setting Set iPodService on Exit unchecked, but if you don't have it installed in the first place, it won't do anything.

2) I set foobar to write APEv2 and ID3v1 tags, but some files contain old ID3v2 tags too: foo_pod, if I'm not mistaken, seems to be using the latter to write info in iPod db. Is it possible to set foo_pod so that it uses APEv2/ID3v1 first?

foo_pod gets the metadata information directly from Foobar, and never directly accesses tag information. So your problem really is with Foobar, and how to get it to use APEv2/ID3v1 tags instead of ID3v2.

3) What is the Enable Sync checkbox? I tried checking it but I see no difference...

After too many people accidently wiped out their iPods because they didn't understand how the Sync Current Playlist/Sync All Playlists features worked, I added that checkbox to ensure that the user had to explicitly enable the sync features (and read/ignore a short message explaining how they work). So if that checkbox is not checked, you won't see the Sync Current/All Playlist options in the foo_pod menu.

[mobyduck]

Thanks for taking time to reply, Aero.

That probably means that you don't have iTunes/iPod Service installed, or iTunes is already running when you start Foobar2000.  iPodService is necessary to utilize those features, but foo_pod works perfectly well without it.

I would recommend setting Set iPodService on Exit unchecked, but if you don't have it installed in the first place, it won't do anything.

Well, as I said I tried iTunes but soon uninstalled it. In task manager, though, I still see an iPodService running: are you saying I don't need it at all? Is it perhaps necessary only for firmware update or iPod format/reset?

foo_pod gets the metadata information directly from Foobar, and never directly accesses tag information.  So your problem really is with Foobar, and how to get it to use APEv2/ID3v1 tags instead of ID3v2.

Not sure I understand: does it mean that there's no solution to this problem or are you implying I'm not using foobar correctly?

After too many people accidently wiped out their iPods because they didn't understand how the Sync Current Playlist/Sync All Playlists features worked, I added that checkbox to ensure that the user had to explicitly enable the sync features (and read/ignore a short message explaining how they work).  So if that checkbox is not checked, you won't see the Sync Current/All Playlist options in the foo_pod menu.

But after checking it I still couldn't see those options: I'll check again as soon as I'm back to work.

One more thing: I suspect my home PC has USB V1 (when I connect the iPod it warns me about a high speed device being connected to a low speed hub, or something like that). I have no problem accessing it through Windows Explorer, but in foobar I don't see the iPod playlist (as in my office PC) and if I send the same song multiple times it doesn't raise an error. I therefore suspect foo_pod should not be used with USB V1: is that correct?

Regards.

Alessandro

[Otto42]

Well, as I said I tried iTunes but soon uninstalled it. In task manager, though, I still see an iPodService running: are you saying I don't need it at all? Is it perhaps necessary only for firmware update or iPod format/reset?

iPodService isn't really necessary at all. If you install the iPod Firmware Updater software, it will get installed. Basically, if you install iTunes or any Apple iPod related software, it gets installed. foo_pod can use it if it's there, but it doesn't need to be there. Realistically, it doesn't make any difference whether it's there or not.

Not sure I understand: does it mean that there's no solution to this problem or are you implying I'm not using foobar correctly?

I think he's not implying it so much as he's flat out stating it.

foo_pod doesn't care what kind of tags you use because it doesn't access the tags directly. It simply accesses foobar's information, which can come from APE, ID3v1, ID3v2, whatever. If foobar says that the name of a song is "Big Empty" then foo_pod accepts that as the word from god. Where foobar gets that information from is not up to foo_pod. So if you're getting the wrong info into the iPod, the problem is that you have something set badly in foobar itself.

One more thing: I suspect my home PC has USB V1 (when I connect the iPod it warns me about a high speed device being connected to a low speed hub, or something like that). I have no problem accessing it through Windows Explorer, but in foobar I don't see the iPod playlist (as in my office PC) and if I send the same song multiple times it doesn't raise an error. I therefore suspect foo_pod should not be used with USB V1: is that correct?

No, that's not correct. foo_pod treats the iPod as a drive letter. It doesn't care how it's connected because all foo_pod is doing, really, is writing data to and from a drive. Now it does interface somewhat to the iPodService, which does more than that, but it doesn't have to do so. If you remove the iPodService, some of the problems might go away. Or not. It's not an easy thing to say without trying different configs to see what works.

[mobyduck]

Hi Otto, thx for joining!

iPodService isn't really necessary at all. If you install the iPod Firmware Updater software, it will get installed. Basically, if you install iTunes or any Apple iPod related software, it gets installed. foo_pod can use it if it's there, but it doesn't need to be there. Realistically, it doesn't make any difference whether it's there or not.

Well, the service starts as soon as I connect the iPod and I wasn't able to stop it manually. Not a big deal anyway, I suppose I can live with it.

I think he's not implying it so much as he's flat out stating it.

foo_pod doesn't care what kind of tags you use because it doesn't access the tags directly. It simply accesses foobar's information, which can come from APE, ID3v1, ID3v2, whatever. If foobar says that the name of a song is "Big Empty" then foo_pod accepts that as the word from god. Where foobar gets that information from is not up to foo_pod. So if you're getting the wrong info into the iPod, the problem is that you have something set badly in foobar itself.

I always grant the benefit of the doubt, just in case...

The only setting I'm aware of is Standard inputs --> MP3 tag writing (where, as I said earlier, I selected "APEv2 and ID3v1"). I also (recently) checked "remove ID3v2 tags while updating", but some MP3s still contains old v2 tags. I understand this is OT here, but can you tell me where/what to change in foobar to solve my little problem? Or maybe I should remove ALL ID3v2 tags from my files? If so, can this task be automated somehow (masstagger or some other tool)?

Cheers.

Alessandro

PS: I confirm I can't find the Sync options: are they supposed to be accessed via the right-click/foo_pod menu or should I look elsewhere?

This post has been edited by mobyduck: Aug 16 2004, 08:42

[mobyduck]

PS: I confirm I can't find the Sync options: are they supposed to be accessed via the right-click/foo_pod menu or should I look elsewhere?

Geez! Found it. Now I feel really stupid!

Alessandro

[Lew_Zealand]

PS: I confirm I can't find the Sync options: are they supposed to be accessed via the right-click/foo_pod menu or should I look elsewhere?

Geez! Found it. Now I feel really stupid!

Ahh, but not as bad as you'll feel if you destroy some music on your iPod by not fully understanding sync. Think of it this way: syncing will replace everything on your ipod except what you're syncing, whether its a single playlist or multiple playlists.

Used properly, it can be helpful.

This post has been edited by Lew_Zealand: Aug 16 2004, 19:46

[Pootle_1]

foo_pod playlist displaying wrong information.

I use Anapod Explorer to add songs to my iPod. For indexing purposes Anapod changes the MP3 filename to XXXX.mp3, for example 4685.mp3. But it keeps all the tag information in the file - you can verify this by finding an ANapod file on the iPod in Explorer and dragging it to your harddisk. MP3 tags are preserved.

When I first do "Load iPod songs to Foobar2000 playlist" the song information is all displayed correctly and can be read with "Properties".

However if I use the iPod playlist to actually play files from the iPod, the filename of the track being played appears in the playlist and all "Properties" information disappears. It can be restored by selecting "Load iPod songs to Foobar2000 playlist" again.

Apologies if this has been posted before - I couldn't find any relevant info in this thread.

[Pootle_1]

foo_pod playlist displaying wrong information.

Answering my own question...

It's because I have used MP3Gain on the files, which stores MP3Gain and Replaygain information in an APE header. When foobar2000 finds an APE header, it doesn't look for any more information in any other headers.

This is a shame because it limits foobar. Plenty of people will have used MP3Gain on gigabytes of MP3s before they started using foobar.

I guess when foo_pod gets data from the iPod it gets it from the iTunes database on the iPod. The information used to build this database HAS used all the available headers.

[Pootle_1]

foo_pod doesn't transfer ID3 data to iPod if APE tags exist in source file

Please excuse my many postings to this forum - I've just found foo_pod and I'm
very keen on it. But last night I used foo_pod in anger and found another
problem, which stems from the same root cause as my previous posting ("foo_pod
playlist displaying wrong information")

On my PC I have thousands of MP3s which I ReplayGained using MP3Gain. MP3Gain
adds an APE tag with ReplayGain data.

Because foo_bar will only read APE tags if a file has them - ignoring all other
tags - files added to a playlist for sending to iPod do not have ID3 data. When
these files are sent to the iPOd with foo_pod, artist/abum/track/title ID3 data
is not sent. They do not appear correctly on the iPod - they appear all mixed
up in one huge directoy called [Artist].

I can't see a way around this unless foo_bar can be persuaded to send ALL tag
data to foo_Pod.

Any ideas?

[Aero]

On my PC I have thousands of MP3s which I ReplayGained using MP3Gain.  MP3Gain adds an APE tag with ReplayGain data. 

Because foo_bar will only read APE tags if a file has them - ignoring all other
tags - files added to a playlist for sending to iPod do not have ID3 data. When
these files are sent to the iPOd with foo_pod, artist/abum/track/title ID3 data
is not sent.  They do not appear correctly on the iPod - they appear all mixed
up in one huge directoy called [Artist].

I can't see a way around this unless foo_bar can be persuaded to send ALL tag
data to foo_Pod.

You might want to ask about the APE vs. ID3 tag issue on the General or Support forums. I don't have any control over how Foobar2000 obtains the metadata, although theoretically, I could parse the ID3v1 tags directly in foo_pod and optionally use that data. Still, this is really a Foobar problem, so I'd like to see if addressed there.

I don't know how to make Foobar read both sets of tags, but one solution would be to find a program that can fill in the APE metadata values based on the ID3v1 tag. Maybe Foobar can do this with MassTagger...I'm not sure. Ultimately, you might just want to strip the ReplayGain out of your files using Foobar2000->ReplayGain->Remove Replaygain info from files, then recalculate it using Foobar. I have done something like that myself, and although it can take a long time to complete (depending on the number of songs and speed of your computer), it does work.

[Mike Giacomelli]

foo_pod doesn't transfer ID3 data to iPod if APE tags exist in source file

Please excuse my many postings to this forum - I've just found foo_pod and I'm
very keen on it. But last night I used foo_pod in anger and found another
problem, which stems from the same root cause as my previous posting ("foo_pod
playlist displaying wrong information")

On my PC I have thousands of MP3s which I ReplayGained using MP3Gain.  MP3Gain
adds an APE tag with ReplayGain data. 

Because foo_bar will only read APE tags if a file has them - ignoring all other
tags - files added to a playlist for sending to iPod do not have ID3 data. When
these files are sent to the iPOd with foo_pod, artist/abum/track/title ID3 data
is not sent.  They do not appear correctly on the iPod - they appear all mixed
up in one huge directoy called [Artist].

I can't see a way around this unless foo_bar can be persuaded to send ALL tag
data to foo_Pod.

Any ideas?

Remove the APEv2 tags and then complain to the author of MP3gain for mucking up your files. Plugins have no control over what tag type gets read, and Peter has said he doesn't plan on dealing with files that have conflicting tag data because there is no way to consistantly tell which tag should be read.

Edit: This thread explains some of the problem:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....5964&hl=mp3gain

After reading that, I think the best solution would be to get Peter to allow the user to manually set the tag priority, so that people who are useing mp3gain can set ID3v2 higher then APEv2.

This post has been edited by Mike Giacomelli: Aug 20 2004, 20:29