foo_pod - Foobar2000 meets the iPod, iPod -> Foobar2000 0.8 Options

[FreydNot]

Or better yet, take it into an Apple Store and talk to someone at the Genius Bar. Often they will swap you iPods on the spot. This just happened with my sons 60 day old mini and we didn't even buy it from Apple (we got it at CompUSA). Walked out of there with a brand new mini.

[jkwarras]

Or better yet, take it into an Apple Store and talk to someone at the Genius Bar.  Often they will swap you iPods on the spot.  This just happened with my sons 60 day old mini and we didn't even buy it from Apple (we got it at CompUSA).  Walked out of there with a brand new mini.

Well, sorry to go OT.
Here in Europe (at least here in Belgium) stores are only there to sell products, they don't do 'post-selling' support. I've phone them and they send me directly to the service support via internet Kind of sad, since it's a really expensive toy. Normally monday I receive a box to send them my iPod.

Back on topic. It's there some way to sync play_counter in foobar (via tags that change size of the file itself) and iPod? AFAIK, right now you can send PC to iPod, but not the other way.

This post has been edited by jkwarras: Oct 24 2004, 14:48

[Lance Uppercut]

On the next update, could play count be added on the foobar end for songs, and not just the iPod?

If not, the plugin still rules.

[bradenmcg]

Is there any way to create iPod playlists from items in foobar?

In otherwords, if I use foo_pod and load the entire grouping of songs, can I then select certain items and tell it to create a new iPod playlist of just those songs?

Even better, can I automate it and have it create new iPod playlists for every album?

[Aero]

Back on topic. It's there some way to sync play_counter in foobar (via tags that change size of the file itself) and iPod? AFAIK, right now you can send PC to iPod, but not the other way.

There are some technical issues that make it difficult to sync the play counts back to the PC files. For example, what if a song on the iPod isn't in one of your Foobar playlists? Would foo_pod just not update that song's play count, or can the Foobar database help out here? I really haven't looked into it enough to say.

Another issue is how to how to resolve the different play counts. Say Song A has been played 10 times on the iPod, and 3 times in Foobar (as reported by the play counter component). If you sync up (which really means Load iPod Playlist in the foo_pod menu), does foo_pod write that Song A has been played 10 times or 13 times? I would guess that should write 13, but again, I don't know for sure.

[Aero]

Is there any way to create iPod playlists from items in foobar?

In otherwords, if I use foo_pod and load the entire grouping of songs, can I then select certain items and tell it to create a new iPod playlist of just those songs?

When you use Send Playlist To iPod, foo_pod not only copies the files that aren't already on the iPod, but it also creates the playlist on the iPod. So to create a new playlist, just create the playlist in Foobar, and select Send Playlist To iPod (assuming you have the Create iPod Playlist option in the Preferences set - this is the default).

In addition, in the Preferences, there are two options that can create additional iPod playlists based on the playlist - random and a custom format. The random playlist is just that - it takes the songs in the playlist and shuffles them (and does a better job randomizing them than the iPod's shuffle feature). Custom means that you can use a standard Foobar TAGZ string to sort the playlist. For example, you could have the playlist sorted by artist.

Even better, can I automate it and have it create new iPod playlists for every album? 

You can't directly do this in foo_pod at the moment, but if there is some way to create those album playlists in Foobar, you can use the Send All Playlist feature to make all of the iPod playlists.

[jkwarras]

Even better, can I automate it and have it create new iPod playlists for every album? 

Why do you need that? When you browse your music on the iPod, just go to album>name of album and hold select button. It'll play the entire album.

[jkwarras]

For example, what if a song on the iPod isn't in one of your Foobar playlists?  Would foo_pod just not update that song's play count, or can the Foobar database help out here?  I really haven't looked into it enough to say.

Maybe you can do this:
1) Check if song is on a playlist. If it's then update count. If not:
2) Check if song is on database. If it's then udpate. If not:
3) Don't update.

Maybe you could skip 1) because normally, songs on playlists are auto added to the database. But it will work for people that don't have database enabled, in this case, playlist should be useful.

Just guessing...

Another issue is how to how to resolve the different play counts.  Say Song A has been played 10 times on the iPod, and 3 times in Foobar (as reported by the play counter component).  If you sync up (which really means Load iPod Playlist in the foo_pod menu), does foo_pod write that Song A has been played 10 times or 13 times?  I would guess that should write 13, but again, I don't know for sure.

I would go for 13.
But a question here: Would this work for transcoded files? I mean, files transcoded from PC to iPod, then: will the original files (non supported format) be updated with counts from iPod?

This post has been edited by jkwarras: Oct 25 2004, 13:00

[bradenmcg]

Even better, can I automate it and have it create new iPod playlists for every album? 

Why do you need that? When you browse your music on the iPod, just go to album>name of album and hold select button. It'll play the entire album.

Because the iPod doesn't handle various artists albums well at all.

See, here's my sort string:

CODE

$if(%VARIOUS%,%ALBUM%,%ARTIST%) - %DATE% - %ALBUM% - $num(%TRACKNUMBER%,2)

I want it sorted by Artist - Year - Album, unless it is Various Artists, at which point I want it Album - Year. I've got all of my music tagged properly, but the ipod is stupid and doesn't understand VARIOUS=1. It puts songs from soundtracks into artist folders based on the song artist. Now, I could browse by album, but I don't necessarily remember all of my album names - I tend to think of "ok, 3rd album released by artist X," so I browse for artist X and then I want a listing of albums. Can't get this with Album mode - it mixes all the albums up. If I browse in Artist mode, I have all of these extra Artists listed who have a single song on a VA album... I don't want to see those as "Artists" in the iPod sense.

My solution was to create playlists for each album, and title them Artist - Year - Album, or Album - Year for VA stuff. I had a bunch on here that I had transferred with Anapod, but I rebuilt my iTunesDB to add Soundcheck info and didn't realize it would kill my playlists. Now I have no easy way to put them back. I could put all the albums back on with Anapod, but I'm assuming it will tromp on my Soundcheck info...

This post has been edited by bradenmcg: Oct 25 2004, 18:25

[Aero]

But a question here: Would this work for transcoded files? I mean, files transcoded from PC to iPod, then: will the original files (non supported format) be updated with counts from iPod?

That's a good question - writing the playcount metadata back to the original file will change the file's hash. As I pointed out earlier, the hash is used to help associate the original file with the transcoded file. So that is an additional complication that will need to be addressed.

[FreydNot]

Not to go too far off topic here but...

When did the iPod start supporting HighEfficency encoded AAC files? I was always told AAC's must always be LC to play on the pod.

I was doing some low bit rate encoding tests using foo_nero and I accidentally uploaded a HE files to the pod. I was quite suprised when it played just fine (and sounded better). This was on a 4G with the latest firmware.

Have I just been living under a rock or something?

PS, I would like to see some kind of playcount integration solution also. All I need it to do is maintain the play count on the iPod after a sync all operation. I use the PC for smart playlists.

[Aero]

Not to go too far off topic here but...

No such thing!

When did the iPod start supporting HighEfficency encoded AAC files?  I was always told AAC's must always be LC to play on the pod.

I was doing some low bit rate encoding tests using foo_nero and I accidentally uploaded a HE files to the pod.  I was quite suprised when it played just fine (and sounded better).  This was on a 4G with the latest firmware.

Are you sure? I just did a quick test using NAACEnc and the latest version of Nero AAC. I encoded the same file as a HE-AAC (-streaming) and a LC-AAC (-streaming -lc). Both played on the iPod, but the HE-AAC file was unlistenable, due to severe high frequency distortion (it seemed to be playing back only the non-SBR part).

Maybe NAACEnc was causing the problem, but the HE-AAC file played back fine in Foobar, and FAAD correctly identified it as a HE-AAC, so I don't think NAACEnc/Nero is to blame. BTW, for those who don't know, HE-AAC is a version of AAC that is somewhat similar to MP3Pro. It processes the high frequencies in a way that the file can be much smaller (2x) and still retain execellent quality.

 
Have I just been living under a rock or something?

I wasn't able to find anyone reporting being able to play HE-AAC files on an iPod, so maybe you accidently loaded regular LC-AAC files instead of the HE-AAC ones? Try using FAAD or the Properties menu in Foobar to verify the AAC type. Being able to play HE-AAC songs on an iPod would be huge, especially for using with foo_pod's transcoder.

PS, I would like to see some kind of playcount integration solution also.  All I need it to do is maintain the play count on the iPod after a sync all operation.  I use the PC for smart playlists.

The play counts on the iPod should be maintained - if not, that is a bug in foo_pod. Now that i think of it, I can believe it doesn't work if you use sync...I should fix that.

[Aero]

BTW, does anyone here have (or is going to buy) one of the new photo iPods? I'd be interested in seeing the new database format and see how they are storing the photos/album art. Along the same lines, if someone has $500 - $600 laying around, I'd be happy to add album art support to foo_pod...

[Otto42]

Even better, can I automate it and have it create new iPod playlists for every album? 

Why do you need that? When you browse your music on the iPod, just go to album>name of album and hold select button. It'll play the entire album.

Because the iPod doesn't handle various artists albums well at all.

See, here's my sort string:

CODE

$if(%VARIOUS%,%ALBUM%,%ARTIST%) - %DATE% - %ALBUM% - $num(%TRACKNUMBER%,2)

I want it sorted by Artist - Year - Album, unless it is Various Artists, at which point I want it Album - Year. I've got all of my music tagged properly, but the ipod is stupid and doesn't understand VARIOUS=1. It puts songs from soundtracks into artist folders based on the song artist. Now, I could browse by album, but I don't necessarily remember all of my album names - I tend to think of "ok, 3rd album released by artist X," so I browse for artist X and then I want a listing of albums. Can't get this with Album mode - it mixes all the albums up. If I browse in Artist mode, I have all of these extra Artists listed who have a single song on a VA album... I don't want to see those as "Artists" in the iPod sense.

A solution using foo_pod would be to open the preferences and put "POD_" in the "Alternate Metadata Prefix" field. Then for all your various artist albums, add some metadata that looks like POD_ARTIST="Various Artists" or something along those lines. Then when you sync using foo_pod, the tracks will all get the "Various Artists" name in the Browse menu and on the display, and won't have all those extra artists listed. All those albums will be listed under the "Various Artists" Artist name.

The iPod doesn't care about metadata in the file in any real way. It doesn't even read it. All the iPod cares about is what is in the iTunesDB file, and that's the file that foo_pod is creating.

You can use the MassTagger to create the POD_ARTIST metadata based on the existence of your VARIOUS=1 metadata.

If you also want to change the Album display to include the year, then set POD_ALBUM=2000 Albumname or similar. Again, use the Masstagger and such.

This post has been edited by Otto42: Oct 28 2004, 00:36

[FreydNot]

Well, false alarm on the iPod playing AAC HE correctly.

I was testing recordings from FM talk radio. I had already applied a 7khz low pass filter to the audio source. I did sucessfully make both LC and HE versions, and they do both play on the iPod. In fact for my application (voice only radio recordings) the HE sounds better then the LC on the iPod (even though it is not being decoded properly).

I did a second test with some real music. Wow what a difference. I had no idea HE would sound so good. I made a 32kbit HE file from a FLAC 44.1 source and played it in foobar. It sounded very close to the origional. Not exactly, but damn good for something that you could stream through a 56k modem connection. When I played it on the iPod, it sounded like a low pass filter had been applied. All mud and no highs.

Sorry if I got anyone hopes up.

[bugmenot]

I think I ran into a small issue with foo_pod. When filenames contain a semicolon, they cannot be uploaded to the iPod. Renaming all of the files fixed the issue.

[bradenmcg]

Even better, can I automate it and have it create new iPod playlists for every album? 

Why do you need that? When you browse your music on the iPod, just go to album>name of album and hold select button. It'll play the entire album.

Because the iPod doesn't handle various artists albums well at all.

See, here's my sort string:

CODE

$if(%VARIOUS%,%ALBUM%,%ARTIST%) - %DATE% - %ALBUM% - $num(%TRACKNUMBER%,2)

I want it sorted by Artist - Year - Album, unless it is Various Artists, at which point I want it Album - Year. I've got all of my music tagged properly, but the ipod is stupid and doesn't understand VARIOUS=1. It puts songs from soundtracks into artist folders based on the song artist. Now, I could browse by album, but I don't necessarily remember all of my album names - I tend to think of "ok, 3rd album released by artist X," so I browse for artist X and then I want a listing of albums. Can't get this with Album mode - it mixes all the albums up. If I browse in Artist mode, I have all of these extra Artists listed who have a single song on a VA album... I don't want to see those as "Artists" in the iPod sense.

A solution using foo_pod would be to open the preferences and put "POD_" in the "Alternate Metadata Prefix" field. Then for all your various artist albums, add some metadata that looks like POD_ARTIST="Various Artists" or something along those lines. Then when you sync using foo_pod, the tracks will all get the "Various Artists" name in the Browse menu and on the display, and won't have all those extra artists listed. All those albums will be listed under the "Various Artists" Artist name.

The iPod doesn't care about metadata in the file in any real way. It doesn't even read it. All the iPod cares about is what is in the iTunesDB file, and that's the file that foo_pod is creating.

You can use the MassTagger to create the POD_ARTIST metadata based on the existence of your VARIOUS=1 metadata.

If you also want to change the Album display to include the year, then set POD_ALBUM=2000 Albumname or similar. Again, use the Masstagger and such.

OMG, <3. I didn't know this was possible. Now I know what the "alternate prefix" option does. This will work fine for my purposes. Thanks a ton Otto! I'm assuming that if foobar doesn't find any metadata with the prefix, it just uses the standards, right?

This post has been edited by bradenmcg: Oct 28 2004, 13:32

[Otto42]

OMG, <3.  I didn't know this was possible.  Now I know what the "alternate prefix" option does.    This will work fine for my purposes.  Thanks a ton Otto!  I'm assuming that if foobar doesn't find any metadata with the prefix, it just uses the standards, right?

Right. It uses (prefix)ARTIST if it's around or ARTIST if it's not. Same thing applies to all metadata that foo_pod uses when creating the iTunesDB file.

[nicholas]

Thanks so much for foo_pod, it is great. I have one question though.

When syncing all playlists with my ipod, all songs are transfered, but one playlist always seems to be left out. Is there a way for me to get all of my playlists listed in the playlist menu on my ipod?

Thanks!

[Aero]

Thanks so much for foo_pod, it is great.  I have one question though.

Thanks!

When syncing all playlists with my ipod, all songs are transfered, but one playlist always seems to be left out.  Is there a way for me to get all of my playlists listed in the playlist menu on my ipod?

Is it always the same playlist? foo_pod can be told to ignore specific playlists, based on the playlist name. Select the playlist that doesn't get transferred in Foobar, then right click on one of the songs and go to the foo_pod menu. Does one of the menu items say "Ignored Playlist"?

[FreydNot]

Any progress on the disappearing smart play lists? They disappear each and every time I preform a sync operation. They do not diappear when I do a simple Send File to iPod or Remove File from iPod operation.

[billcow]

Great plugin, but I have one problem with it and one suggestion...

The problem is that it doesn't seem to correctly ignore playlists for sync all - I have one playlist that has every file in my database, and have it set to ignore. The problem is that all the songs end up getting transfered anyway. I'm not sure if the playlist ends up getting created because the errors popping up in the console slow down the process so much that I just click cancel.

The suggestion is that there be an option similar to the ipod tag prefix that is generated on the fly from a tagz string. For example, ALBUM could be set as "%album%$if(%disc%, (Disc %disc%))" to add in the disc number without having to run the masstagger on all multi-disc albums.

[Aero]

The problem is that it doesn't seem to correctly ignore playlists for sync all - I have one playlist that has every file in my database, and have it set to ignore. The problem is that all the songs end up getting transfered anyway. I'm not sure if the playlist ends up getting created because the errors popping up in the console slow down the process so much that I just click cancel.

I have never been able to reproduce the ignore playlist problems, but several people have reported them so something must be going on. I'll try to figure it out.

The suggestion is that there be an option similar to the ipod tag prefix that is generated on the fly from a tagz string. For example, ALBUM could be set as "%album%$if(%disc%, (Disc %disc%))" to add in the disc number without having to run the masstagger on all multi-disc albums.

Hmm...this is a pretty good idea. I'll make sure to implement this in the next version.

[blurryeyes]

Best ipod plugin i ever seen!!
Thx for your job.....

btw..would the transfer window add the data transfer bitrate?

[reardon]

Anyone here (Otto or Aero?) know anything about this issue?

AAC tagging & binary fields:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=29120

+Reardon