foo_pod - Foobar2000 meets the iPod, iPod -> Foobar2000 0.8 Options

[.zolder]

EDIT: nevermind

This post has been edited by .zolder: Dec 27 2004, 18:15

[Aero]

Version 0.9.7 is now available.


This build just contains couple little things that I have wanted to add to make loading Podcasts easier and better. This version adds the option of sending (aka transcoding) any song to the iPod as a .m4b audiobook. There are several good reasons for doing this, since the iPod handles audiobooks special even though they are just regular AAC files with the .m4b file extension.

Just to give you an idea how I use foo_pod with Podcasts, I first have Foobar set up to append newly enqueued files to the end of a "Command Line" playlist. Then when I download a podcast, I set it to open automatically in Foobar. Then I use foo_pod to send the podcast to the iPod as an audiobook. Finally, I create a Podcasts playlist on the iPod, load the iPod playlists in Foobar, and from the [Default] [iPod] playlists, I scroll to the bottom to see the newly added podcast, and drag that into the Podcasts [iPod] playlist and update it. It sounds more complicated that it really is...


As a reminder, Foobar 0.8.3 doesn't understand .m4b songs, so if you are going to be using them with foo_pod, make sure you download my modified foo_input_std.dll file and replace your current foo_input_std.dll.




From the Readme:

CODE

Version 0.9.7 - December 27, 2004
*  Added a "Send To iPod as Audiobook" feature to a song's right click menu.  Audiobooks are treated differently on the iPod in a number of respects - they have automatic bookmarking, which allows you to return to a specific point in a song.  Also, on newer iPods (4G+), there is a menu item that displays audiobooks, and they can be played faster or slower than normal speed.  This feature requires that an AAC encoder is available - the default configuration uses FAAC.exe, located in the Foobar2000 directory, but the settings can be changed via the Transcoder tab in the Preference dialog.

*  Opening the iPod playlists now also shows the default hidden playlist.  This playlist is not visible on the iPod, and contains every song on the iPod.  The playlist order is not important and editing is not allowed, but since newly added songs are located at the bottom, it can help you identify songs that have been recently added.

*  Added an option on the iPod Service Preference tab to disable the use of iPodService.  This is only really useful in rare cases, and normally it should not be set.

*  Considerably sped up the display of playlist items in the Playlist Editor.

[kalmark]

One quick question, as an "outsider" (I have no ipod) - if you transfer normal M4A/MP4/AAC file to the ipod, will they be transcoded or simply renamed to M4B?

[Aero]

One quick question, as an "outsider" (I have no ipod) - if you transfer normal M4A/MP4/AAC file to the ipod, will they be transcoded or simply renamed to M4B?

Currently, it will be transcoded. There are a couple of reasons for this - first, it makes it easier for foo_pod to find matching songs on the iPod. Secondly, since the Audiobook transcoding parameters are customizable, it is possible to compress the audio even further, if you want.

If you already have AAC files, just rename them to .m4b and send them to the iPod normally and they will appear as audiobooks.

[kalmark]

Okay, great, I was just curious Thanks

[BUSH]

is there the possibility for any kind of support for Apple Lossless. I understand that transcoding for example FLAC to Apple Lossless is unlikely, but it would be great if foo_pod allowed you to transfer apple lossless files to the the ipod.

[Aero]

is there the possibility for any kind of support for Apple Lossless. I understand that transcoding for example FLAC to Apple Lossless is unlikely, but it would be great if foo_pod allowed you to transfer apple lossless files to the the ipod.

Until Foobar has some support for ALE, foo_pod can't do anything with that format. The last time I checked, you couldn't put a ALE song in a Foobar playlist or even load it in Foobar.

As soon as someone adds ALE support to Foobar, it should work with little or no changes in foo_pod.

[JuG]

Hi everyone,

first of all, you did a great job on iPodDB and foo_pod.
I recently got my first ipod (4G), installed iTunes and it didn't convince me.
One reason is that I use flac for all my audio-files. I hate to maintain everything twice, so I guess foo_pod and transcoding on te fly would be the way to go.

But with this I have some trouble.
Sending files to the ipod works well as expected, but sync wont.
Here is what I do:
- I create a playlist with all the songs (flac) I want on the ipod
- then I select foo_pod->sync current playlist

Result:
A progress window is popping up and closing instantly, a playlist "ipod (foo_pod)" appears and it is empty. On the iPod are no files or playlists.
There are no error-messages or warnings. Not even in debug-mode.

When i repeat the same steps as above but use mp3 instead of flac everything works as expected: The files are transferred to the iPod and a playlist (with the same name as the foobar-playlist) is created on the ipod.
This is what i would expect from sync regardless of the file-format.
In a mixed playlist containing mp3 and flac only the mp3-files will be transferred.

What I could do, to work around this, is to select all the files I want on the ipod and use foo_pod->send files to ipod. Then everything works fine (transcode/transfer) and I could create the playlists I want using the files in "ipod (foo_pod)".


There seems to be another problem with sync and transcoding:
- foo_pod->load ipod playlists as tabs
- add a flac that is not on the ipod to one of these playlists
- foo_pod->update this playlist on the ipod

Result:
The flac will be transcoded and transferred successfully. It is present on the ipod, but it won't appear in the playlist that I added it to.
When I repeat the above steps foo_pod notifies me that the file is already there and skips transcoding/transferring, but the entry in the playlist will still be missing.
With mp3 again this works as expected.

foo_pod is probably one of the most useful plugins for foobar, but these few problems I have are a bit annoying and using it could be more efficient. Sync would make it a lot easier.

happy new year
jug

[Edit: just some additions - without my explanation was misleading]

This post has been edited by JuG: Jan 1 2005, 01:56

[jrbamford]

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some basic foopod usage... I've looked through this monster thread as far as i could.. tried looking at the wiki as well.. I just brought an ipod for my sister for christmas.. I used foopod to transfer all the songs i wanted to onto it for her.. This took some figuring out.. I was hoping to not have to install ANY apple software, but it quickly became obvious that i'd need to install the "drivers" as such so that it could work at all.. before doing this, windows would find the hdd of the ipod but when you tried going onto it it said it was unformatted..

I now come to wanting to set up my sister's laptop for long term usage of her ipod.. I just wondered what are the required steps..

Do i have to install itunes etc to get the drivers needed for foopod to work?

In the initial installation if itunes is installed will it delete the current files on there from foopod?

How can i stop itunes loading as default when the ipod is connected?

Is there a way for itunes and foobar/pod to live together.. ideally i'll set up my sister using EAC and lame to encode her music and then foopod to upload to the ipod, but its possible that i may have to relent and let her use itunes for easyness sake... if i turn off syncing in itunes is it happy to leave foopod uploaded files on the ipod and happily add itunes encoded (or EAC/lame) files via itunes on top?

I've done the whole ipod music as playlist option in foopod.. what is the best way of getting these files back off the ipod onto the computer.. surely using diskwriter isn't the right way for this although technically it would work!??

Does the auto chart stuff where an ipod lists the most popular tracks, albums etc still work when using foopod.. I'm sure i read somewhere that every time you upload these tags with foopod have to get overwritten or something... sorry i've never used an ipod before so i've not had chance to properly test this yet (and besides since she's started using it its yet to be reconnected to any computer) .. this kind of stuff is quite a neat feature of ipod.. I imagine my sister would like it.. if its not possible with foopod yet then that will be another small reason to use itunes instead.. if it IS possible then that reason will be removed and i'll feel even easier about forcing her away from itunes

In fact in short what features are different for the worse/better on the ipod when using foopod as oppossed to itunes!?

Thanks for your time.. great plugin!!

If these questions do get answered, perhaps a newbie section in the WIKI would be a good place to put those answers.. questions like "what do i need to install to use foopod" would of been great to have read before i'd managed to get it working... for complete fresh installed (or not as the case maybe) ipod users..

[JuG]

Hi jrbamford,

first of, i'm new to this whole ipod, foo_pod, itunes - stuff, but i could try to answer some of your questions :-)

I now come to wanting to set up my sister's laptop for long term usage of her ipod.. I just wondered what are the required steps..

Be careful with laptops.
As far as i understand it, you need a high-power usb 2.0 port or a firwire port to get the iPod to work properly. Therefor the laptop needs to have external power supply when the ipod is connected. The battery won't be able to do this...
If the laptop has neither there might be a problem. Have a look at this small(ish) sort of reference/manual that came with the ipod and look for system requirements. Or check the apple/ipod website. Also Check the laptop specifications to check if the ports are available.

Do i have to install itunes etc to get the drivers needed for foopod to work?

No, as you already noticed, when you connect your iPod, windows will recognize it as external hd and foo_pod could use it. Updating the ipod is just a bunch of file-system operations on this external hd. You don't need any apple-software installed, except for the initial setup (ie formatting the ipod-hd).

How can i stop itunes loading as default when the ipod is connected?

In the preferences, there is an ipod-tab. There is a checkbox, whether or not to load itunes when an ipod is connected. Uncheck it.

I've done the whole ipod music as playlist option in foopod.. what is the best way of getting these files back off the ipod onto the computer..

When you have done "load ipod songs to foobar2000 playlist" the you could simply rightclick on the "ipod (foo_pod)" playlist and select "foo_pod->save ipod files to disc"

In fact in short what features are different for the worse/better on the ipod when using foopod as oppossed to itunes!?

erm... well. I try to break it down to what i know for sure.
pro itunes:
- itunes of course understands the ipod-technology entirely and thus provides the best and most complete implementation of all the features.
- it will respect the playcount and rating data on the ipod and merge it into its own local database

contra itunes:
- uses a lot of resources
- its closed source

pro foo_pod:
- the classes foo_pod relies on are open source
- it's possible to download the media-files from the ipod without any trouble
- almost all the main features of itunes are present (updating/syncing, playlists, smart playlists)
- it is faster and needs less system-resources than itunes
- it allows transcoding of media-types ipod/itunes does not understand, that means you don't need to keep and maintain a copy of your music collection. For me this is the ultimate itunes-killer-feature
- still in development -> there will be more new features in the future (hopefully)

contra foo_pod:
- still in development, there are features missing, incomplete or may not work as expected
- it won't respect playcount/rating on the ipod and will not merge these data into foobars database or the local files. but it adds local values to the ipod-database if there are any available


These are just the info that i could figure out myself, testing and reading this thread. If i'm wrong in some points please correct me, i'm just trying to understand this all myself.
There might also be a language problem, because i'm not native to english, but you might have noticed that already...

cheers
jug

[jrbamford]

Thanks Jug..

So having already set it all up i wont need to install itunes at all on my sisters machine.. or any apple software.. i guessed it could of formatted it when it first ran stuff..

I assumed something of apple was required to be installed to get the "iPod Service" stuff all working.. it was this that didn't work until i installed everything..

Do we know if its possible to get itunes and foopod coexisting.. I have all the files i uploaded but its about 10gig and i'd rather not reupload if at all possible

Thanks for the laptop warning... i'll have a look.. it does have a charging PSU.. i can tell her to always have her laptop plugged in whenever she is going to do anything with it.. its hard to believe that the ipod has that much of a power requirement.. i'd of thought an unpowered firewire port to just have the ipod run of batteries when uploading... fair enough not great.. but do able if you wanted to do a couple of albums and you knew it was on full enough charge..

Cheers.. Happy New Year!!

[jrbamford]

It turns out that i'm going to have to wait to play with this some more anyways.. sisters laptop, and mine for that matter has the smaller 4 pin firewire connector... 4G ipods don't come with the adapter for it in the box.. as for your power related query, it does seem like an issue.. there are a couple of adapters that take one firewire lead (from your mains power adapter) and the other from your unpowered 4 pin laptop and combines it into 1 powered 6 pin port ready for the ipod.. getting hold of these at all and especially in Europe is looking like a difficult one.. until then my foopod fiddlings will have to wait

[infrared]

Well, the Wiki's up and running but people are needed to update and maintainers for it. Aero: How do you feel about moving updates and the changelog there?

Is there any objections about the Wiki?

[datdude]

Trying to transfer flac and wma files to ipod by transcoding, however I get this error:

ERROR (foo_pod) : Transcoding failed!
ERROR (foo_pod) : Error #0 copying E:\Mikey's Music\Main Library\Albums\311 - 311 - 01 - Down.flac to d:\iPod_Control\Music\F84\

I am using v0.8.3 foobar and 0.9.7 foo_pod.

I have followed the readme file and have transfered both foo_podtranscoder.dll and foo_podclienc.dll to the Components directory.

I have transfered lame.exe 3.96.1 to the foobar main directory. In preferences I have selected the lame best wuality setting.

Any suggestions on why it will not transcode?

Thanks

[Aero]

Trying to transfer flac and wma files to ipod by transcoding, however I get this error:

ERROR (foo_pod) : Transcoding failed!
ERROR (foo_pod) : Error #0 copying E:\Mikey's Music\Main Library\Albums\311 - 311 - 01 - Down.flac to d:\iPod_Control\Music\F84\

I am using v0.8.3 foobar and 0.9.7 foo_pod. 

I have followed the readme file and have transfered both foo_podtranscoder.dll and foo_podclienc.dll to the Components directory.

I have transfered lame.exe 3.96.1 to the foobar main directory.  In preferences I have selected the lame best wuality setting.

That looks like foo_pod wasn't able to find lame.exe. A couple things to try:

1. Make sure that the LAME executable is named 'lame.exe' and it is in the same directory as foobar2000.exe.
2. Copy lame.exe to c:\windows
3. Copy faac.exe to the Foobar directory, select one of the FAAC transcoder settings.

If none of those work, let me know.

[Aero]

first of all, you did a great job on iPodDB and foo_pod.
I recently got my first ipod (4G), installed iTunes and it didn't convince me.
One reason is that I use flac for all my audio-files. I hate to maintain everything twice, so I guess foo_pod and transcoding on te fly would be the way to go.

But with this I have some trouble.
Sending files to the ipod works well as expected, but sync wont.
Here is what I do:
- I create a playlist with all the songs (flac) I want on the ipod
- then I select foo_pod->sync current playlist

Result:
A progress window is popping up and closing instantly, a playlist "ipod (foo_pod)" appears and it is empty. On the iPod are no files or playlists.
There are no error-messages or warnings. Not even in debug-mode.

When i repeat the same steps as above but use mp3 instead of flac everything works as expected: The files are transferred to the iPod and a playlist (with the same name as the foobar-playlist) is created on the ipod.
This is what i would expect from sync regardless of the file-format.
In a mixed playlist containing mp3 and flac only the mp3-files will be transferred.

What I could do, to work around this, is to select all the files I want on the ipod and use foo_pod->send files to ipod. Then everything works fine (transcode/transfer) and I could create the playlists I want using the files in "ipod (foo_pod)".

Sync is almost unsupported in foo_pod. I don't use it, so it get the kind of testing it needs. I strong recommend using Send Files/Delete Files to manage the files on the iPod, at least until I get some time to get sync working as it should.

There seems to be another problem with sync and transcoding:
- foo_pod->load ipod playlists as tabs
- add a flac that is not on the ipod to one of these playlists
- foo_pod->update this playlist on the ipod

Result:
The flac will be transcoded and transferred successfully. It is present on the ipod, but it won't appear in the playlist that I added it to.
When I repeat the above steps foo_pod notifies me that the file is already there and skips transcoding/transferring, but the entry in the playlist will still be missing.
With mp3 again this works as expected.

This is a general problem with transcoding and playlists, not just with sync. The best workaround right now is, after transcoding, go to the "[Default] [iPod]" playlist and find the transcoded file (it should be at the end of the playlist), then add that to the iPod playlist. I'll work on a better fix for this problem.

[datdude]

That looks like foo_pod wasn't able to find lame.exe.  A couple things to try:

1. Make sure that the LAME executable is named 'lame.exe' and it is in the same directory as foobar2000.exe.
2. Copy lame.exe to c:\windows
3. Copy faac.exe to the Foobar directory, select one of the FAAC transcoder settings.

If none of those work, let me know.

Still not working and the same error with FAAC

I have a 4 g ipod with latest firmware but im assuming the ipod has nothing to do with it. I am using windows xp service pack 2 as well.

[SNAG]

OT a little here, but a little observation.

I was attempting to reproduce a bug that I had encountered sometime back (on corrupted DB with foo_pod), and I had did a backup copy of the DB file in the /Ipod_Control/iTunes folder.

When I plugged out my iPod, I realised that there were double entries in my DB, and this was because of iPod reading the 2 DB files simulteneously.

Moral of the story? Don't place 2 DB files in the iTunes folder, and if you do, give an extension to the file.

[Aero]

I was attempting to reproduce a bug that I had encountered sometime back (on corrupted DB with foo_pod), and I had did a backup copy of the DB file in the /Ipod_Control/iTunes folder.

When I plugged out my iPod, I realised that there were double entries in my DB, and this was because of iPod reading the 2 DB files simulteneously.

Moral of the story? Don't place 2 DB files in the iTunes folder, and if you do, give an extension to the file.

Hmm...that is very odd. I typically have several DB files in my iTunes directory, and I have never seen the duplicate database thing.

Are you sure that you just didn't end up with an iTunesDB with multiple entries? If not, what did you name the DB files in order to see the duplicates?

[SNAG]

I was attempting to reproduce a bug that I had encountered sometime back (on corrupted DB with foo_pod), and I had did a backup copy of the DB file in the /Ipod_Control/iTunes folder.

When I plugged out my iPod, I realised that there were double entries in my DB, and this was because of iPod reading the 2 DB files simulteneously.

Moral of the story? Don't place 2 DB files in the iTunes folder, and if you do, give an extension to the file.

Hmm...that is very odd. I typically have several DB files in my iTunes directory, and I have never seen the duplicate database thing.

Are you sure that you just didn't end up with an iTunesDB with multiple entries? If not, what did you name the DB files in order to see the duplicates?

Hmm.. such strange things are always happening to me...
I just did an copy and paste of the file, without giving it any file extension whatsoever (unlike foo_pod, where its backup function adds an extension). The duplicate file was called "Copy of iTunesDB".

EDIT: The problem that I encountered with 2 DB files was that the DB entries were largely duplicated, and they were no longer sorted alphabetically. Even full albums were not sorted according to tracknumber.

If you want, I still have the duplicate file on my HDD, and I can email it over to you..

This post has been edited by SNAG: Jan 3 2005, 06:49

[falconfox]

my sister just got an ipod photo for xmas. i have been using foo_pod for a while now with my own ipod and have had no problems. i tried to put all my songs onto her ipod photo, but something wasn't working correctly. the transfer conpletes fine, but when i select a song on her ipod, some of the songs play, while others just skip over. i have tried many things, hoping i could find the problem (formatted, applied latest ipod software, and rebuilt the database) but nothing worked. does foo_pod support ipod photo?

@aero: i searched the thread to find your post about your ipod photo. are you having any difficulties?

[Aero]

my sister just got an ipod photo for xmas. i have been using foo_pod for a while now with my own ipod and have had no problems. i tried to put all my songs onto her ipod photo, but something wasn't working correctly. the transfer conpletes fine, but when i select a song on her ipod, some of the songs play, while others just skip over. i have tried many things, hoping i could find the problem (formatted, applied latest ipod software, and rebuilt the database) but nothing worked. does foo_pod support ipod photo?

@aero: i searched the thread to find your post about your ipod photo. are you having any difficulties?

No difficulties in general, although I have seen the skipping problem you describe. I have seen it happen on 3G, 4G, and especially on the iPod Photo. If they never play, that could be a foo_pod problem. But if it takes 2-3 selections to get them to play, then it is almostly definitely an iPod problem.

I seem to remember that early 3G firmwares especially had this problem, but it was fixed in later releases. The problem seems to occur when the disk doesn't spin up or seek fast enough before something times out and moves on to the next song. Too bad Apple's firmware release schedule is so slow, and they do such a horrible job supporting their older players...


As an aside, as someone who has owned a 3G, 4G, and iPod Photo, the quality of the firmware appears to be going down as time goes on. Mostly little problems, but with the iPod Photo in particular, I have been disappointed by the quality of the overall design (the new databases and iTunes' lackluster support for moving photos to the iPod).

[Aero]

Still not working and the same error with FAAC

I have a 4 g ipod with latest firmware but im assuming the ipod has nothing to do with it.  I am using windows xp service pack 2 as well.

It isn't an iPod or XP problem. Can you try the following?

1. Go to the foo_pod preferences, and for Console Debug Mode, set it to "All Debug Messages".
2. Open up the Foobar console (Components menu, Show Console), and click Reset to clear it.
3. Find a FLAC/WMA file, double click on it to make sure it plays, then right click and select "Send File To iPod".
4. Send me or post the entire contents of the Console window if the transcoding fails.


Thanks.

[mobyduck]

Sync is almost unsupported in foo_pod. I don't use it, so it get the kind of testing it needs. I strong recommend using Send Files/Delete Files to manage the files on the iPod, at least until I get some time to get sync working as it should.

This is something I always wanted to ask: suppose I have a relatively large playlist (~1000 songs) and I change its content (add/remove files, change MP3 tags, replaygain, etc.), what am I supposed to do to keep the iPod playlist "in synch" with it? Do I have to select all the files on my PL and Send them over to the iPod? Wouldn't it produce duplicates or unwanted (not removed) files on the iPod?

Alessandro

[JuG]

Sync is almost unsupported in foo_pod.  I don't use it, so it get the kind of testing it needs.  I strong recommend using Send Files/Delete Files to manage the files on the iPod, at least until I get some time to get sync working as it should.

Well then i'll keep doing it that way, it's just annoying, because foo_pod could do most of that already, it just needs to be "automated".
- determine which files to send or delete * that's the tricky part i guess
- transcode if needed
- use the same send/delete functions that are already working
- create/remove playlists if needed
- add/remove entries to/from playlists
Most of these steps are already implemented and working. The only problem is that first step. I don't know much about programming in C, or whatever it is you use, but i don't consider this a big effort. Ok, thinking about it, i have to admit, that "what to compare?" is harder than the comparison itself.
You use the filesize as one criteria, but that is weak for transcoded files - All files will be deleted, transcoded and sent all over again. This is really time-consuming.
Istead you could store the size of the local file on the ipod using a tag (e.g. POD_FILESIZE). Thus transcoding would not affect this comparison. Just a thought...

I'll work on a better fix for this problem.

Great

cheers
jug