foo_pod - Foobar2000 meets the iPod, iPod -> Foobar2000 0.8 Options

[Aero]

I don't know if this was mentioned before, but foo_pod keeps mounting my iPod even if there is no obvious reason.
Example: i have my iPod docked to recharge. I don't need it so i did foo_pod->Eject iPod. Thus i don't have to worry about taking it out of the dock when i'm in a hurry.
But every time i access the contextmenu, to change track-properties, rating, whatever... foo_pod mounts the iPod - there is no use, it just causes a useless delay waiting for the iPod.

This seems to be a problem with certain versions of iPodService.

Either upgrade to the latest version (either by installing iTunes or iPod Updater), or check the "Don't Use iPodService" checkbox in the foo_pod Preferences -> iPod Service tab.

[JuG]

Either upgrade to the latest version (either by installing iTunes or iPod Updater)

I have the latest iPod Updater and iTunes installed, this problem occurs anyway.
Anyway i'll see if i could live without iPodService, although its no "fix".

cheers
jug

[Aero]

I have the latest iPod Updater and iTunes installed, this problem occurs anyway.
Anyway i'll see if i could live without iPodService, although its no "fix".

Another thing to try is in the foo_pod Preferences -> Force Drive Letter. Set that to your iPod's drive letter and see if that helps with the problem.

[pab123]

Hi,

I'm the author of GNUpod...

I'm currently 'collecting' iTunesSD files since i don't own an iPod shuffle..

It would be cool if people could send me some sample iTunesSD *and* iTunesDB files
to <pab at blinkenlights.ch>


Thanks

[Aero]

I'm the author of GNUpod...

I'm currently 'collecting' iTunesSD files since i don't own an iPod shuffle..

It would be cool if  people could send me some sample iTunesSD *and* iTunesDB files
to <pab at blinkenlights.ch>

I have only received 1 set of iTunesSD/DB files, but Otto has determined quite a bit about the iTunesSD structure and documented it at the iPodLinux Wiki. When/if you get more information, please keep this page up to date.

[80k]

Thanks for the plugin... it works great I just bought an IPOD today and got it working with Foo_pod right away.

Just a suggestion (has nothing to do with the plugin itself)... perhaps modify the 1st post in this thread with info on the latest release? For a couple of months, i kept thinking that this foo_pod plugin was still at 0.1, and not able to transfer files yet... i didn't realize it was a fully functional itunes replacement until yesterday! Just figured it'd get more popularity

Thanks again for a great plugin. Much appreciated!

[jkwarras]

Hi Aero,

I wonder if this coud be any possibility of implementing playcount/rating sync between fb2k database and ipod IF 'block tag update' is enabled in fb2k (so any tag will be written into the database instead of the file itself). That's the only feature I miss in foo_pod

I know that it'll be better if this kind of things (database written tags) would get implemented in the core of fb2k, but I don't know if this will get implemented anytime soon.

Thanks.

[Aero]

Thanks for the plugin... it works great   I just bought an IPOD today and got it working with Foo_pod right away.

Cool! Thanks!

Just a suggestion (has nothing to do with the plugin itself)... perhaps modify the 1st post in this thread with info on the latest release?  For a couple of months, i kept thinking that this foo_pod plugin was still at 0.1, and not able to transfer files yet... i didn't realize it was a fully functional itunes replacement until yesterday!  Just figured it'd get more popularity

Yeah, that is a good idea - I'll start doing that for the next release.

[Aero]

I wonder if this coud be any possibility of implementing playcount/rating sync between fb2k database and ipod IF 'block tag update' is enabled in fb2k (so any tag will be written into the database instead of the file itself). That's the only feature I miss in foo_pod

I know that it'll be better if this kind of things (database written tags) would get implemented in the core of fb2k, but I don't know if this will get implemented anytime soon.

If there is a progammatic way to determine if "block tag update" is enabled, I can probably do it.

I guess the big problem is that I'm not really enthusiastic about ratings/playcounts in Foobar, since I currently don't do anything with them. But sooner or later, I'll either find time to work on it or more likely, need to use them myself and implement the feature.

[jkwarras]

But sooner or later, I'll either find time to work on it or more likely, need to use them  myself and implement the feature.

Start using it!

Seriously, I really wasn't very entusiastic either about the playcount/rating stuff ( I was listening to mp3 stuff without rating for very longtime, so I really didn't see at all the need of rating/playcount), but after start rating my songs and start paying attention at what songs I really was playing more often, I realize that I can't live without it

[Otto42]

Seriously, I really wasn't very entusiastic either about the playcount/rating stuff ( I was listening to mp3 stuff without rating for very longtime, so I really didn't see at all the need of rating/playcount), but after start rating my songs and start paying attention at what songs I really was playing more often, I realize that I can't live without it

Nod. This is basically the reason I don't use foo_pod. Playcounts/ratings/last played times are essential for how I listen to the music on the iPod. I'm not happy about having to use iTunes to do this sort of thing, but at the moment there's no better solution. iTunes UI is terrible, IMO, but the playlist support and data handling is very good, if a bit slow.

[Lew_Zealand]

Nod. This is basically the reason I don't use foo_pod. Playcounts/ratings/last played times are essential for how I listen to the music on the iPod. I'm not happy about having to use iTunes to do this sort of thing, but at the moment there's no better solution...

Wow. I guess I don't need to feel guilty about thinking this myself, if this is how Otto feels. I haven't abandoned foo_pod yet (and am still deeply appreciative of all of the hard work Aero has done on it), but I have considered returning to iTunes for playback and ratings information. I'm not interested in foo_playcount (or whatever it's called - I don't recall right now), because I don't want the file changing every time I play it.

The biggest thing that keeps me using foo_pod is the use of replaygain. I haven't tried soundcheck yet (in iTunes - of course it's active on the iPod), and I'm a little concerned it will affect the files as well. Can anyone (briefly) explain how it works?

Ratings/Playcounts vs. Replaygain. That's the dilemma I'm stuck with for now.

[80k]

I just had a very very strange error. and i'm unsure of whether it was foopod that did it or my IPOD.

What happened was that I highlighted a bunch of CD's and added it to my IPOD.

there were two CD's.

1. Shostakovich - Symphony No. 10
2. Shostakovich - Symphony No. 8

Track 3 for Sym. No. 10 has a track length of 13:20
Track 3 for Sym. No. 8 has a track length of 6:11

Now here is what's weird. It kept the correct tags and information for both files.

However, track 3 of Sym. No. 10 was actually track 3 of Sym. No. 8!!!

So when i would play track 3 of Sym No. 10, i would hear the Sym. No. 8 track 3 instead. the weird thing was that it still stated the track length of 13:20. However, right at 6:11, it ended and went to the next track (which makes sense since i wasn't listening to the correct track anyway).

I deleted these tracks from my IPOD and went back and redownloaded it using foobar, and everything was fine.

VERY strange though! Any ideas on why this happened?

thanks!

edit: just wanted to add that the filenames are different, so i am not sure how it got confused. the only similarity between the files were that they were both track 3, and they both were the same "artist".


EDIT: just wanted to add that i had the same thing happen again with 2 more albums. except this time, they were "within" the same album. In an album of 4 tracks, i had track 1 to be mistakenly track 4. so basically i would listen to the album i hear:

track 4
track 2
track 3
track 4

But the first track 4 had the tags and mp3 info for track 1!!

think there is something wrong with my IPOD or is this a foo_pod thing?

This post has been edited by 80k: Jan 28 2005, 10:24

[jkwarras]

but I have considered returning to iTunes for playback and ratings information.  I'm not interested in foo_playcount (or whatever it's called - I don't recall right now), because I don't want the file changing every time I play it.

If you enable 'block tag update' the tags will be forced to be written into the database. Maybe it's nto the most convenient way, but at least it's the only way to make fb2k not writte to the file right now.

[FreydNot]

I'll add myself to the list of people who really would like to see play count and rating support. I still use foo_pod over iTunes because I can't live without replaygain. I even went so far as to install the SQL version of the Play Count plugin so I would have counter support without re-writing the files.

Some ideas I had about solutions to the problem...

Add a more global support for matching files via MD5 checksum. Allow the user to create and use MD5 sums for all songs (not just the transcoded ones).

Calculate the MD5 sums from only the music portion of the file (strip off the tags). This will give more consistant results.

If nothing else, consider a way to dump a text log file which holds the ratings and counts from the iPod whenever they get reset. This way I could rate songs on the iPod and not loose that information when I sync. I could at least hand enter the ratings data from the log file into foobar which does get used when I upload to the pod using foo_tunes.

I'd be happy to test anything I can

[Aero]

I can understand ratings...there should be an easy way to set those outside of the iPod - as long as it doesn't change the source file and always works, even if the database isn't enabled (and frankly, I have never really seen Foobar's database work as I think it should).

But I don't really understand the desire have an all encompassing play count for each song. I do use - and foo_pod supports - the play counts on the iPod, but linking that with Foobar...I just don't see the appeal. I do seem major technical problems in implementing it, however.

The bottom line is that these aren't easy problems, folks. I appreciate suggestions, but with my extremely limited time, I have to make some priorities. If you have to fire up iTunes to set ratings, I don't think that is a major hardship for now - hopefully some solution in Foobar/foo_pod can be found. But iTunes-like play counts is something that probably just won't ever happen, since foo_pod is so loosely coupled with Foobar and the other components.

[Aero]

there were two CD's.

1. Shostakovich - Symphony No. 10
2. Shostakovich - Symphony No. 8

Track 3 for Sym. No. 10 has a track length of 13:20
Track 3 for Sym. No. 8 has a track length of 6:11

Now here is what's weird.  It kept the correct tags and information for both files.

However, track 3 of Sym. No. 10 was actually track 3 of Sym. No. 8!!!

So when i would play track 3 of Sym No. 10, i would hear the Sym. No. 8 track 3 instead.  the weird thing was that it still stated the track length of 13:20.  However, right at 6:11, it ended and went to the next track (which makes sense since i wasn't listening to the correct track anyway).

I deleted these tracks from my IPOD and went back and redownloaded it using foobar, and everything was fine.

...

edit: just wanted to add that the filenames are different, so i am not sure how it got confused.  the only similarity between the files were that they were both track 3, and they both were the same "artist".


EDIT: just wanted to add that i had the same thing happen again with 2 more albums.  except this time, they were "within" the same album.  In an album of 4 tracks, i had track 1 to be mistakenly track 4.  so basically i would listen to the album i hear:

track 4
track 2
track 3
track 4

But the first track 4 had the tags and mp3 info for track 1!!

Um....that is very strange!

I can't say that I have ever seen this problem. Based on the 13:20 vs. 6:11 thing, and that the metadata was correct, it would seem that somehow, foo_pod mixed up the filenames. Would you please post the 2 filenames that were mixed up? I am thinking that they might have contained characters that the iPod doesn't accept (like non-English characters) or the length was too long, and the filename escaping in foo_pod somehow went wrong.

BTW, which version of foo_pod are you using?

[80k]

Um....that is very strange! 

I can't say that I have ever seen this problem.  Based on the  13:20 vs. 6:11 thing, and that the metadata was correct, it would seem that somehow, foo_pod mixed up the filenames.  Would you please post the 2 filenames that were mixed up?  I am thinking that they might have contained characters that the iPod doesn't accept (like non-English characters) or the length was too long, and the filename escaping in foo_pod somehow went wrong.

BTW, which version of foo_pod are you using?

Hi, thanks for the quick response!

I am using 0.9.8

Here are all the filenames that were messed up. This happened on 3 instances.

Symphony No.3 in E Flat Major, Op.55 - I. 'Eroica' - Allegro con brio.mp3
Symphony No.3 in E Flat Major, Op.55 - IV. 'Eroica' - Finale. Allegro molto.mp3


Symphony No.7 in A major, Op.92 - I. Poco sostenuto-Vivace.mp3
Symphony No.7 in A major, Op.92 - IV. Allegro con brio.mp3

03-Dmitri Shostakovich-Symphony No. 10 - 3 - Allegretto.mp3
03-Dmitri Shostakovich-Symphony No 8 - III - Allegro non Troppo.mp3


In each of those 3 cases, it was the 1st of the two files that was wrong.. and it ended up playing the 2nd of the two files instead. For instance, when playing
"Symphony No.7 in A major, Op.92 - I. Poco sostenuto-Vivace.mp3", i would actually be hearing "Symphony No.7 in A major, Op.92 - IV. Allegro con brio.mp3", even though the tags shown on my IPOD and the track length represented the 1st track.

Thanks again!

[80k]

OK, i don't think there is anything inherently wrong with those particular files.

Because I just tried to duplicate the problem. And this time, those files all worked okay.

However, this time 2 different files messed up.

Symphony No.5 in C Minor, Op.67 - II. Andante com moto.mp3
Symphony No.5 in C Minor, Op.67 - III. Allegro.mp3

Again, the 2nd file was played when i tried to play the 1st file.



And keep in mind that Symphony No. 7 and No. 3 all imported into the IPOD without a problem, even though it had problems with track 1 and 4 last time!

So it seems to be random. Something gets confused, but it is not consistent!

EDIT: you are probably wondering how i am able to determine this so quickly. Actually when i am viewing the files in foobar (looking at the IPOD), i can see the files as duplicated. it is only IN THE IPOD, when i am navigating on the actual player, that it will think it is the wrong file (tags and track length).

hope that helps!



EDIT: Just wanted to say that I did it a couple more times (adding all 9 Beethoven CD's at once) with foo_pod and it always gave me a problem I then did it several times with itunes, and it did it error-free everytime.

It seems like it is a foo_pod bug. Please let me know if you have anymore questions or need more details. Thanks again!

This post has been edited by 80k: Jan 28 2005, 11:41

[FreydNot]

Aero, thanks for the feeback.

I have installed Quick Tag which allows me to easily set the RATINGS data for the songs. This works well, but it is 1 way (foobar -> iPod). I rarely listen to music on my PC, so it would be much more convienent to set ratings on the pod. Right now I loose any of that rating data I did on the pod when I do a sync (the data stored in the foobar database over writes the pod data). If I had a log file showing the rating data which was on the pod before syncing, I could manually re-enter my ratings into foobar. That would be a workable solution for me as far as ratings go. I'm sure its pretty obvious why it is good to have ratings data on the pod.

Play count isn't that big of a deal to me. It is nice to make a SPL which sorts based on number of plays from lowest to highest, but there are other ways to get the same effect.

The last played time and date is the most important piece of info for me. Almost all of my SPL's include "has not been played in the last 2 weeks". This way I tend to hear songs that I haven't heard in a while.

For play counts and last played date, I think our difference goes back to how I use foo_pod differently then you. I tend to keep all of my music in a single playlist in foobar and periodicly wipe the ipod and reupload all of the songs. Occasinally I will add new tracks without doing a sync or a wipe and reload. This means I loose all of the play count and play date info that was built up on the iPod. My goal is to transfer that data from the pod back into foobar at each sync so if I do a wipe and reload, I still have current stats.

I totally understand if this just isn't something that you are interested in supporting. I know its a big deal to sync data between foobar and the iPod. No matter what, foo_pod is still way better then using itunes!

[Aero]

However, this time 2 different files messed up.

Symphony No.5 in C Minor, Op.67 - II. Andante com moto.mp3
Symphony No.5 in C Minor, Op.67 - III. Allegro.mp3

Again, the 2nd file was played when i tried to play the 1st file.

To support the new filename length limitation introduced in the iPod Photo, foo_pod truncates filenames to 31 characters. It just so happens that "Symphony No.5 in C Minor, Op.67" is 31 characters, so you lose the rest of the filename and end up with two identically named files.

foo_pod is supposed to increment the filename so you don't get duplicate names, but apparently that isn't working correctly. This will also be an intermittant problem, since there are 100 different directories that a song can be in, so you aren't likely to have duplicates unless you have a lot of songs that have the same first 31 characters (which, unfortunately, you do).

It should be pretty easy to fix, now that I think I know what is going on.

[80k]

To support the new filename length limitation introduced in the iPod Photo, foo_pod truncates filenames to 31 characters.  It just so happens that "Symphony No.5 in C Minor, Op.67" is 31 characters, so you lose the rest of the filename and end up with two identically named files.

foo_pod is supposed to increment the filename so you don't get duplicate names, but apparently that isn't working correctly.  This will also be an intermittant problem, since there are 100 different directories that a song can be in, so you aren't likely to have duplicates unless you have a lot of songs that have the same first 31 characters (which, unfortunately, you do).

It should be pretty easy to fix, now that I think I know what is going on.

Cool, that's a relief that it isn't something really funky/crazy! I'll probably just use itunes for the time being, since i do have a lot of classical music with a naming convention where the first 31 characters are the same.

thanks for the quick response and again, great job on the plugin!! Not sure if someone has mentioned it, but has their been talk about having an albumlist panel that looks inside the IPOD? or perhaps there is way to get it to work already?

thanks!

[Otto42]

The biggest thing that keeps me using foo_pod is the use of replaygain.  I haven't tried soundcheck yet (in iTunes - of course it's active on the iPod), and I'm a little concerned it will affect the files as well.  Can anyone (briefly) explain how it works?

It's basically the same thing, with a faster and less accurate scanning method. When you add a song to iTunes, it scans it to determine a volume level. This volume level is stored in the file itself as tag information, but it's also stored to the database and sent to the iPod's database. These two database values are used to change the volume level when you play the song back with SoundCheck enabled. foo_pod's ReplayGain functionality exactly models iTunes' SoundCheck functionality, only using the RG volume that foobar calculates instead of the SoundCheck volume that iTunes calculates.

Exactly the same, but with different scanning methods. RG is slower but somewhat more accurate during the initial scan. That's really the only difference. SoundCheck is "good enough" for most uses. It occassionally gets one badly wrong, which I manually adjust with the volume slider.

[Aero]

The biggest thing that keeps me using foo_pod is the use of replaygain.  I haven't tried soundcheck yet (in iTunes - of course it's active on the iPod), and I'm a little concerned it will affect the files as well.  Can anyone (briefly) explain how it works?

Exactly the same, but with different scanning methods. RG is slower but somewhat more accurate during the initial scan. That's really the only difference. SoundCheck is "good enough" for most uses. It occassionally gets one badly wrong, which I manually adjust with the volume slider.

Actually, the big difference is that iTunes' Sound Check is done on a per-song basis. This is the same concept as Track Gain in ReplayGain terminology.

Many people find this unacceptable and prefer Album Gain, where the volume is normalized across the entire album, rather than on a per-song basis. Of course, foo_pod lets you choose which style to use, then converts this into a Sound Check value that the iPod understands.

Also, I believe Sound Check in iTunes overwrites the Comment metadata (at least for ID3v1).

[Otto42]

Actually, the big difference is that iTunes' Sound Check is done on a per-song basis.  This is the same concept as Track Gain in ReplayGain terminology.

Well, yeah, okay, I forgot about Album Gain.

Also, I believe Sound Check in iTunes overwrites the Comment metadata (at least for ID3v1).

Actually, it stupidly writes a second comment tag, at least for ID3v2. It might overwrite v1 tags.