Denon vs Sony turntable comparison Options

[fewtch]

Hey, for whoever has been following these turntable threads (& my issues) with interest (or disinterest )...

I now have samples up from the Denon DP-26F turntable (built in preamp) and the Sony PSJ11 turntable (built in preamp). Both of these are unaltered, from the same part of the music.

Can anyone see why I prefer the Sony, and am thinking seriously about RMA'ing the Denon?

http://home.attbi.com/~fewtchmon/sony_sample.mp3

http://home.attbi.com/~fewtchmon/denon_sample.mp3

(Both the above are very short, about 150kbytes, --alt-preset extreme).

Disagreements are welcome, of course. If you think the Denon's problem is the built in preamp, let me know.

Cheers...

[NeoRenegade]

To my crappy ears it sounds like the Denon sharpened the high range but as a result the bass isn't as good...

[fewtch]

Originally posted by NeoRenegade
To my crappy ears it sounds like the Denon sharpened the high range but as a result the bass isn't as good...

It sharpened the high range, with the result that every speck of dust + groove noise is heavily amplified (and yes, the bass is awful). I've been calling the Denon sound "grating" and I think it is. I should have just stuck with what I had, but now either I leave the Denon in the closet or buy a decent preamp for it (which might cost as much as the record player).

[Tinribs]

I still own an old Dual,to my ears its still the best

[fewtch]

If someone happened to show up with a $6,000 reference turntable, it might be possible to show a "real" turntable sound (provided they mastered the record themselves, or andtweaked the turntable to exactly reproduce the sound as mastered). It might be necessary to play the record in a special room, too (dustproof, vibration proof, soundproofed).

Until then, I maintain that all turntables/tonearms/cartridges/LP's add some kind of coloration, the sound is somehow different than the original master tapes... throwing money at the issue won't necessarily change it either. Analog is analog :-).

Sometimes I think "audiophiles" like turntables mainly because the sound is so tweakable, but won't admit it . Really, I do think CD's sound better (MUCH more dynamic range, no rumble, no clicks/pops, little wow/flutter/tonal variation, etc).

In my case... my hobby is a genre of music that was never released on CD (except a few compilations). Otherwise I wouldn't mess with vinyl, I don't have the money to do it much justice.

[JonPike]

Heh.. well, you ask the serious audiphile guys.. and that $6K is about what you really should throw at the turntable and cartridge

From what I've read and heard, all that money is aimed at A: reproducing the record accurately and not adding noises, and B: reproducing the ultra fine details that result in the "3d soundstage" where you can actually hear where all the instruments are in the band.. etc.

Your point is fairly well taken.. but the tweaking, of high end gear anyway, dosen't change too drastically the general sound.. more you kinda can hear, when you've got it right a overall better reproduction, and the details come out.. the "reality" gets better..

Idea is the coloration gets smaller and smaller..

On a different note.. I listened to the two.. actually liked the Denon a bit better.. maybe a little "bright" in the treble range.. but overall it sounded more "real".. Could be a taste thing.. but I don't know how the track is supposed to sound.

I wanted to mention a problem with the subject materiel.. no offense, I like the stuff too, but for these kinds of listening tests.. using "natural" instruments would be a better idea. Part of the problem is, I don't know how the particular synth patch is supposed to sound, but I sure woud know how a violin, or sax, or human voice should sound.. and therby have a standard in mind to compare it to..

Lastly.. hey, think about the Bugle kit.. I priced out the standard parts, $25 from Digikey.. that and $20 for the board and instructions.. $45, it's cheap! Heck, I'll even build it for you..

I'm looking at changing some of the critical parts for higher quality ones on the one I'll build. Might be worth throwing another $20-30 at it, for some performance enhancement...