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Topic: iTunes 4.5 released (Read 70379 times) previous topic - next topic
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iTunes 4.5 released

Apple just released iTunes 4.5 for Mac OS X and Windows. Among the new features are WMA importing (Windows only, it seems) and a new codec Apple Lossless. The iPod software has also been updated with support for the new codec.

Apple iTunes, iPod software

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #2 –
Seems they've been listening to their customers - lots of usefull additions!

They're still missing one extremely necessary feature, to clean up the music database. i.e if files are deleted through a file manager, they remain there in the itunes music library. For people for organze their files in directories, and move them for whatever reason, end up getting lots of entires in itunes pointing nowhere.

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #4 –
Quote
Seems they've been listening to their customers - lots of usefull additions!

They're still missing one extremely necessary feature, to clean up the music database. i.e if files are deleted through a file manager, they remain there in the itunes music library. For people for organze their files in directories, and move them for whatever reason, end up getting lots of entires in itunes pointing nowhere.

You can do a "consolidate library". And you can also see files that are not present, they are marked with an icon. But there is no Smart Playlist feature to only see the missing files    (maybe now in 4.5)

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #5 –
Make sure if you own an iPod or iPod mini you get Apple's latest firmware update for your player so it will work properly with iTunes 4.5 and Apple's Lossless format:

http://www.apple.com/ipod/download/

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #6 –
So the iPods can now play lossless too? Yet another plus in their favour now it seems. I may just have to get myself one (though I was looking at an iPod mini, and lossless isn't that useful for it).

Has anyone tested the new lossless codec yet? Does it store the files in it's own container? Is it vaguely competitive compressionwise? Compared to FLAC, say?

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #7 –
Quote
Has anyone tested the new lossless codec yet? Does it store the files in it's own container? Is it vaguely competitive compressionwise? Compared to FLAC, say?

take a look here for the discussion.

[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']edit: spelling (doh!)[/span]
Nothing but a Heartache - Since I found my Baby ;)

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #8 –
Does anyone know if this new upgrade (to the iPod software) fixes the occasional Nero tagging related issue for VBR files, or do Nero generated .m4a/.mp4 files still occasionally skip and have problems as described in other threads here on HA.

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #9 –
Quote
Does anyone know if this new upgrade (to the iPod software) fixes the occasional Nero tagging related issue for VBR files, or do Nero generated .m4a/.mp4 files still occasionally skip and have problems as described in other threads here on HA.

I tried playing two problem files encoded with Nero 2.6.1.9 that would cause the iPod to skip over them with firmware 2.1. The same files play fine with firmware 2.2 so it would appear that the nero issues are fixed according to my somewhat limited tests.

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #10 –
Quote
two problem files encoded with Nero 2.6.1.9 that would cause the iPod to skip over them with firmware 2.1. The same files play fine with firmware 2.2 so it would appear that the nero issues are fixed according to my somewhat limited tests..

That's great news. Glad to see Apple is listening to customer issues... Anyone else confirm that this has been fixed?

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #11 –
I made a couple of  m4a files with the new apple aac codec. The resulting files show VBR activity when played back in foobar2000. I had set the bit rate for 192, and the files would vary in playbavk from 160 range up to 230-240 kbps. So it looks like apple aac is now vbr-and all the fuss here today is about the lossless encoder!:)
you will make mp3's for compatibility reasons.

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #12 –
I read elsewhere that someone thought the low-pass filter might have changed. To test this I encoded the same song with Nero at 128k and the new iTunes at 128k. I did spectrum plots of the same region on the original and the decoded AAC. The results are a bit strange. The Nero file shows a cliff at 16 kHz as expected. The iTunes file shows a 16 kHz cliff followed by a mound from 17-19 kHz.

http://home.columbus.rr.com/tcristy/freq_compare.jpg

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #13 –
@mdmuir: Very interesting about what you discovered about the apparant VBR encoding in the new iTunes. A new listening test and/or results posted by others will hopefully clear this up.

Also, you are right, this VBR support is not really being talked about yet. Perhaps you are the first one to discover it. I think the new Lossless audio feature is worthwhile as well. I wonder why Apple isn't telling us more of what they changed/which codec they used for both the AAC Encoding and Lossless encoder.

Also I read somewhere today on a news site that Apple upgraded the quality of their MP3 encoder (something about 320k support), but I have yet to confirm that an improvement has been done to lower MP3 bitrates.

All in all it sounds like a very good upgrade. It is sure getting a lot of press coverage and a lot of bandwidth here on HA talking about the new features in this upgrade. If I didn't know better I'd think some of us are like kids let loose in a candy store today

@tcristy: Also very interesting discovery you made. Wonder what's up with that..

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #14 –
Quote
I read elsewhere that someone thought the low-pass filter might have changed. To test this I encoded the same song with Nero at 128k and the new iTunes at 128k. I did spectrum plots of the same region on the original and the decoded AAC. The results are a bit strange. The Nero file shows a cliff at 16 kHz as expected. The iTunes file shows a 16 kHz cliff followed by a mound from 17-19 kHz.

http://home.columbus.rr.com/tcristy/freq_compare.jpg

Well, that certainly is interesting.  I wonder if it's audible?  Maybe it's data that's not meant to be heard, like a watermark or something.

ff123

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #15 –
Hmm... and how long until there's a listening test to determine whether there is an actual increase in audio quality? "Improvement" is - especially on Hydrogen Audio! - a subjective term, until properly verified. For some reason, I am still a little suspicious... and I think I'll archive a copy of my iTunes 4.2 installer.

    - M.
 

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #16 –
Quote
Hmm... and how long until there's a listening test to determine whether there is an actual increase in audio quality?

One week. Hopefully.

No, the codec isn't VBR yet. At least, it's not using their VBR codebase. It's probably more like an ABR.

And yes, lowpass management was changed.

Here are two spectral views from OrdinaryWorld.wav:

iTunes 4.2:
http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/OrdinaryWorld-42.png

iTunes 4.5:
http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/OrdinaryWorld-45.png

Regards;

Roberto.

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #17 –
Interesting, you see the same 16-17Khz gap followed by more information.

My first thought was that they might be adding that lump of high frequency information to fool those complaining about the low-pass cutoff into hearing more than is really there. This might be a situation like PNS where anything up there is perceived about the same as long as the amplitude is close to the same.

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #18 –
Is that lump of high frequency audible and more importantly, beneficial to the quality?

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #19 –
Quote
Is that lump of high frequency audible and more importantly, beneficial to the quality?

That will take listening tests with people with very good high frequency hearing.  For those who can hear it, it might well be detrimental.  Typically, if you can see intermittent black spaces in time in spectral view, it corresponds with what people call "ringing."

bAdDuDeX used to complain about ringing which occured above 16 kHz, so I'm sure somebody somewhere will be able to hear a difference; whether it's better or worse than just a plain 16 kHz cutoff is the $64 question.

ff123

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #20 –
erm, was iTunes 4.2 the last windows version before 4.5?

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #22 –
@ mdmuir:

hi!
there is no improvement in this regard - take a look here:

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #23 –
I think it would be beneficial especially considering I and many others have a 3000+ kb/s conection, that apple consider allowing options in quality of download lowfi/hifi etc...

If I am to pay a dollar + for songs I would prefer a format that is cd quality. That way when I make it into a cd or transcode to a different format for my cd player I don't lose a lot of quality.
r3mix zealot.

iTunes 4.5 released

Reply #24 –
I found something interesting when I updated. The music sharing feature is not backwards-compatible with previous versions of iTunes. Anyone who has not yet upgraded is displayed in grey text under the "Shared Music" and selecting them gives a nice message saying "The shared music of 'user' is not compatible with this version of iTunes."

I was trying to figure out what would prompt Apple to do something like this when other upgrades didn't break compatibility, then a thought hit me. What if Apple changed the way it streams the music or encrypts it to break MyTunes compatibility (MyTunes is software that allowed you to download others' music instead of just sharing it. Apple forced the maker to remove it from the web, although it can still be found pretty easily on google). Sure enough, MyTunes no longer works with the latest version.

EDIT: I found a page that details the new encryption for music shares. So iTunes is trying to kill off MyTunes and other applications of the sort. Even funnier, it's already been cracked.

EDIT: I wish Apple had been kind enough to disable conversion from compressed audio to lossless or at least warned that you weren't getting better quality by upmixing.
-CyberInferno