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New iPods!
Busemann
post Jul 18 2004, 15:42
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Seems the 4th gen iPods will debut Monday July 19th..

Mag Cover


20 & 40 GB for $299 and $399 respectively.
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ChangFest
post Jul 20 2004, 17:13
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QUOTE
Actually, can even iTunes play mp3's gapless?

No.

QUOTE
Majority of portable users don't care about number of format support, gapless or not, all they care is style, good enough audio quality, ease of use and coolness factor.

Yeah. Sad but true...but when the format support allows for extra player functionality vs. less support then it's better.


I own a Rio Karma. My main beef with Apple's Ipod is their lack of proper album playback. If they would impliment gapless then I'd probably own one. The Karma does this and much more and probably the better player hands down in the end.
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markgr
post Jul 20 2004, 19:28
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QUOTE (ChangFest @ Jul 20 2004, 11:13 AM)
QUOTE
Actually, can even iTunes play mp3's gapless?

No.

QUOTE
Majority of portable users don't care about number of format support, gapless or not, all they care is style, good enough audio quality, ease of use and coolness factor.

Yeah. Sad but true...but when the format support allows for extra player functionality vs. less support then it's better.


I own a Rio Karma. My main beef with Apple's Ipod is their lack of proper album playback. If they would impliment gapless then I'd probably own one. The Karma does this and much more and probably the better player hands down in the end.
*



Actually, iTunes does have a feature which may result in something similiar to what you are looking for in it's crossfade feature. What exactly do you mean by gapless and reproducing the album effect?
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AtaqueEG
post Jul 20 2004, 20:16
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QUOTE
Actually, iTunes does have a feature which may result in something similiar to what you are looking for in it's crossfade feature. What exactly do you mean by gapless and reproducing the album effect?


Gapless is much more than just playing song with no silence between them (like you can do with a crossfader). "True gapless" is the ability of a codec to somehow retain/register the actual length of a music sample. This is very important to retain the "effect" on some albums where all the tracks are made to be played uninterrupted, like a live album, of a Pink Floyd album. There are also albums that are designed to have some tracks play like that and others with silences between them. A good example of this is The Beatles' "Abbey Road".

"Reproducing the album's effect" is nothing but to be able to listen to the album the closest one can to what the artist wanted to achieve.


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Cygnus X1
post Jul 20 2004, 20:45
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QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Jul 20 2004, 02:16 PM)
Gapless is much more than just playing song with no silence between them (like you can do with a crossfader).

*


iTunes can't even do that....even when using Apple Lossless or AIFF files, setting the crossfader to zero still results in a pop and a brief pause. It's annoying enough that I've ripped all my Pink Floyd, classical, and The Who albums as single tracks, rather than individual ones.

CD's are the only things that play back gaplessly in iTunes, but why would I play a CD in iTunes to begin with? blink.gif Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a HDD-based software jukebox?
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AtaqueEG
post Jul 20 2004, 20:51
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QUOTE
iTunes can't even do that....even when using Apple Lossless or AIFF files, setting the crossfader to zero still results in a pop and a brief pause. It's annoying enough that I've ripped all my Pink Floyd, classical, and The Who albums as single tracks, rather than individual ones.

CD's are the only things that play back gaplessly in iTunes, but why would I play a CD in iTunes to begin with?  blink.gif Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of having a HDD-based software jukebox?



This is the one thing that has changed my mind about buying an iPod.
You know, I had learned to "deal" with the lack of gapless playback on portables, but having read that Rio Karma supports LAME-tag-based gapless playback, I am definitely going that way.


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markgr
post Jul 21 2004, 14:37
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QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Jul 20 2004, 02:51 PM)
This is the one thing that has changed my mind about buying an iPod.
You know, I had learned to "deal" with the lack of gapless playback on portables, but having read that Rio Karma supports LAME-tag-based gapless playback, I am definitely going that way.
*


Well, as mentioned above, why not just rip a 'suite' of tracks into a single track using iTunes. Logically, it makes sense. Having several movements contained in a piece of classical music is theoretically still one piece of music. If they are assigned seperate track numbers, and shuffle is set on your CD player, they don't, ofcourse, play consecutively. I just don't think it is that big a deal, I think it is a bit 'nit-picky' smile.gif
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Chun-Yu
post Jul 21 2004, 21:21
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QUOTE (markgr @ Jul 21 2004, 08:37 AM)
Well, as mentioned above, why not just rip a 'suite' of tracks into a single track using iTunes. Logically, it makes sense. Having several movements contained in a piece of classical music is theoretically still one piece of music. If they are assigned seperate track numbers, and shuffle is set on your CD player, they don't, ofcourse, play consecutively. I just don't think it is that big a deal, I think it is a bit 'nit-picky' smile.gif
*


This kind of logic may work for classical music, but what about, say, a trance CD that's composed of a bunch of different songs by different artists that are mixed together continuously? Also, the slightest gap in this sort of album is very annoying.
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guruboolez
post Jul 21 2004, 21:37
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QUOTE (Chun-Yu @ Jul 21 2004, 09:21 PM)
This kind of logic may work for classical music (...)

Not really. Direct access to different tracks is necessary. Even "purist" are shouting when a CD comes without any track (it's very rare, and that's why all editors are using tracks, sometimes more than 100 for one lyrical piece).

I can't understand why manufacters are so negligent about gapless playback. All audio devices before MP3 players were able to do that: vynil, tape, CD, and even MD! Since the beginning of the 80', consumer has the possibility to switch with precision and very quickly from one point to another (CD, MD). Mono-file ripping is just a 25 year regression. Even for classical music listeners (and maybe especially for them).
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Fuchal
post Jul 21 2004, 21:49
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QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 21 2004, 03:37 PM)
QUOTE (Chun-Yu @ Jul 21 2004, 09:21 PM)
This kind of logic may work for classical music (...)

Not really. Direct access to different tracks is necessary. Even "purist" are shouting when a CD comes without any track (it's very rare, and that's why all editors are using tracks, sometimes more than 100 for one lyrical piece).

I can't understand why manufacters are so negligent about gapless playback. All audio devices before MP3 players were able to do that: vynil, tape, CD, and even MD! Since the beginning of the 80', consumer has the possibility to switch with precision and very quickly from one point to another (CD, MD). Mono-file ripping is just a 25 year regression. Even for classical music listeners (and maybe especially for them).
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Probably because 99% of people who buy mp3 players don't care about gapless playback. smile.gif
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guruboolez
post Jul 21 2004, 22:06
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QUOTE (Fuchal @ Jul 21 2004, 09:49 PM)
Probably because 99% of people who buy mp3 players don't care about gapless playback. smile.gif
*

I guess that's the same with portable MD players... nevertheless Sony thought and made gapless and real audio players.
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Fuchal
post Jul 22 2004, 05:56
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QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 21 2004, 04:06 PM)
QUOTE (Fuchal @ Jul 21 2004, 09:49 PM)
Probably because 99% of people who buy mp3 players don't care about gapless playback. smile.gif
*

I guess that's the same with portable MD players... nevertheless Sony thought and made gapless and real audio players.
*



Nothing wrong with that, people can buy MD players then. Everyone who wants an iPod will buy an iPod.
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Posts in this topic
- Busemann   New iPods!   Jul 18 2004, 15:42
- - blessingx   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5457434/site/newsweek/...   Jul 18 2004, 15:52
- - ShowsOn   Yeah, given Apple's exagerated battery capacit...   Jul 18 2004, 18:05
|- - Cygnus X1   QUOTE (ShowsOn @ Jul 18 2004, 12:05 PM)Yeah, ...   Jul 18 2004, 18:31
|- - AtaqueEG   I almost purchased a 20GB third-generation iPod ye...   Jul 18 2004, 18:51
- - mithrandir   Even with a $100 price drop, they are still b...   Jul 18 2004, 19:40
|- - Bongoboy   QUOTE (mithrandir @ Jul 18 2004, 07:40 PM)but...   Jul 18 2004, 22:42
- - Teqnilogik   QUOTE (mithrandir @ Jul 18 2004, 01:40 PM)but...   Jul 18 2004, 22:55
- - negritot   I just hope it's more scratch resistant than t...   Jul 19 2004, 05:18
- - NeoRenegade   QUOTE (Teqnilogik @ Jul 18 2004, 04:55 PM)QUO...   Jul 19 2004, 05:33
- - AtaqueEG   How about "better looking"? Or "eas...   Jul 19 2004, 05:46
- - svkelley   I have a 2nd Generation 20G iPod that I use every ...   Jul 19 2004, 06:20
- - QuantumKnot   Looks good. I especially like the slightly longer...   Jul 19 2004, 06:54
|- - ShowsOn   QUOTE (QuantumKnot @ Jul 19 2004, 02:54 PM)I ...   Jul 19 2004, 12:05
|- - QuantumKnot   QUOTE (ShowsOn @ Jul 19 2004, 09:05 PM)QUOTE ...   Jul 19 2004, 13:55
|- - ShowsOn   FrEaKy! I went back to the Apple Education sto...   Jul 19 2004, 15:00
|- - bidz   QUOTE (ShowsOn @ Jul 19 2004, 06:00 AM)I shou...   Jul 19 2004, 15:13
||- - ShowsOn   QUOTE (bidz @ Jul 19 2004, 11:13 PM)Apple Sto...   Jul 19 2004, 15:28
|- - QuantumKnot   QUOTE (ShowsOn @ Jul 20 2004, 12:00 AM)FrEaKy...   Jul 20 2004, 00:36
|- - robUx4   QUOTE (QuantumKnot @ Jul 20 2004, 12:36 AM)I ...   Jul 20 2004, 09:04
|- - rufu   QUOTE (robUx4 @ Jul 20 2004, 12:04 AM)QUOTE (...   Jul 20 2004, 09:19
|- - robUx4   QUOTE (rufu @ Jul 20 2004, 09:19 AM)Sorry, bu...   Jul 20 2004, 09:41
- - Polar   What I'm especially hoping for with this new i...   Jul 19 2004, 08:53
|- - spoon   I prefer the iPod mini, fits in your pocket easier...   Jul 19 2004, 09:46
|- - ShowsOn   QUOTE (Polar @ Jul 19 2004, 04:53 PM)What I...   Jul 19 2004, 12:11
|- - Polar   (off topic) QUOTE (ShowsOn @ Jul 19 2004, 01...   Jul 19 2004, 15:00
- - Rotellian   Its weird, i just dont listen to music like this. ...   Jul 19 2004, 09:58
- - StoneRoses   QUOTE (Cygnus X1 @ Jul 19 2004, 12:31 AM)do t...   Jul 19 2004, 10:43
- - AgentMil   That sounds pretty neat... but now I have to justi...   Jul 19 2004, 12:17
- - robUx4   Does any user here know if it's possible to pl...   Jul 19 2004, 14:33
|- - Althalus   QUOTE (robUx4 @ Jul 19 2004, 02:33 PM)Does an...   Jul 20 2004, 11:43
|- - prism_emf   QUOTE (Althalus @ Jul 20 2004, 01:43 PM)Btw, ...   Jul 20 2004, 12:25
|- - ShowsOn   QUOTE (prism_emf @ Jul 20 2004, 08:25 PM)My b...   Jul 20 2004, 13:31
|- - prism_emf   QUOTE (ShowsOn @ Jul 20 2004, 03:31 PM)Any id...   Jul 20 2004, 15:23
- - phong   IMO, style is the only thing the iPod has going fo...   Jul 19 2004, 15:15
|- - AtaqueEG   QUOTE (phong @ Jul 19 2004, 08:15 AM)IMO, sty...   Jul 19 2004, 16:38
|- - ShowsOn   QUOTE (phong @ Jul 19 2004, 11:15 PM)IMO, sty...   Jul 20 2004, 13:36
- - phong   Yes, it's true, the Karma reads lame tags to p...   Jul 19 2004, 18:17
- - StoneRoses   phong, You forgot to mention some important iPod...   Jul 20 2004, 07:55
|- - spoon   QUOTE (StoneRoses @ Jul 20 2004, 06:55 AM)pho...   Jul 20 2004, 09:34
|- - robUx4   QUOTE (spoon @ Jul 20 2004, 09:34 AM)Doesn...   Jul 20 2004, 09:43
- - rufu   Yep it's kind of rubbish that the new 4G iPods...   Jul 20 2004, 12:27
- - StoneRoses   QUOTE (spoon @ Jul 20 2004, 03:34 PM)Doesn...   Jul 20 2004, 15:57
- - ChangFest   QUOTE Actually, can even iTunes play mp3's gap...   Jul 20 2004, 17:13
|- - markgr   QUOTE (ChangFest @ Jul 20 2004, 11:13 AM)QUOT...   Jul 20 2004, 19:28
|- - mmortal03   QUOTE (markgr @ Jul 20 2004, 01:28 PM)QUOTE (...   Jul 20 2004, 20:15
|- - AtaqueEG   QUOTE Actually, iTunes does have a feature which m...   Jul 20 2004, 20:16
|- - Cygnus X1   QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Jul 20 2004, 02:16 PM)Gaple...   Jul 20 2004, 20:45
|- - AtaqueEG   QUOTE iTunes can't even do that....even when u...   Jul 20 2004, 20:51
|- - markgr   QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Jul 20 2004, 02:51 PM)This ...   Jul 21 2004, 14:37
|- - Chun-Yu   QUOTE (markgr @ Jul 21 2004, 08:37 AM)Well, a...   Jul 21 2004, 21:21
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (Chun-Yu @ Jul 21 2004, 09:21 PM)T...   Jul 21 2004, 21:37
|- - Fuchal   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 21 2004, 03:37 PM)QUO...   Jul 21 2004, 21:49
||- - guruboolez   QUOTE (Fuchal @ Jul 21 2004, 09:49 PM)Probabl...   Jul 21 2004, 22:06
||- - Fuchal   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 21 2004, 04:06 PM)QUO...   Jul 22 2004, 05:56
|- - ChangFest   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Jul 21 2004, 12:37 PM)I c...   Jul 22 2004, 22:06
- - audioflex   Ive been having problems with my 20gb 3g one, i mi...   Jul 20 2004, 20:04
|- - AtaqueEG   QUOTE (audioflex @ Jul 20 2004, 01:04 PM)Ive ...   Jul 20 2004, 20:17
- - audioflex   See the problem is, when im walking with it and pl...   Jul 20 2004, 20:37
|- - AtaqueEG   QUOTE (audioflex @ Jul 20 2004, 01:37 PM)See ...   Jul 20 2004, 20:48
- - audioflex   QUOTE (AtaqueEG @ Jul 20 2004, 12:48 PM)If yo...   Jul 20 2004, 20:51
- - QuantumKnot   It's a shame that we have this 'sliding wi...   Jul 21 2004, 00:49
- - AtaqueEG   It is official now I must say it still looks inte...   Jul 21 2004, 04:45
- - jkonami   How's the amp and sound output of the 4G so fa...   Jul 21 2004, 07:04
|- - ChangFest   QUOTE (jkonami @ Jul 20 2004, 10:04 PM)How...   Jul 21 2004, 07:31
|- - jkonami   QUOTE (ChangFest @ Jul 21 2004, 01:31 AM)QUOT...   Jul 21 2004, 07:43
|- - markgr   QUOTE (ChangFest @ Jul 21 2004, 01:31 AM)If g...   Jul 21 2004, 14:49
||- - ShowsOn   I'm in the process of going to FLAC, thus maki...   Jul 21 2004, 17:35
||- - ChangFest   QUOTE (markgr @ Jul 21 2004, 05:49 AM)I am cu...   Jul 21 2004, 18:36
|- - loophole   QUOTE (ChangFest @ Jul 20 2004, 10:31 PM)QUOT...   Jul 21 2004, 22:44
|- - phong   QUOTE (loophole @ Jul 21 2004, 09:44 PM)The a...   Jul 22 2004, 04:43
- - Hias   Does anyone have further information an the ...   Jul 21 2004, 23:12
|- - negritot   QUOTE (Hias @ Jul 21 2004, 02:12 PM)Does anyo...   Jul 22 2004, 22:23
- - audioflex   I think the concept of mp3 players (in many people...   Jul 22 2004, 05:39
- - rtimmel   But you can change the extension from .m4a to .m4b...   Jul 22 2004, 22:53
- - QuantumKnot   My new 20 GB iPod arrived today. Damn nice looks...   Jul 30 2004, 13:56
- - markgr   I purchased a 40 GB 4G iPod this week and I love i...   Jul 30 2004, 16:27
- - rufu   Nothing but speculation about "hidden feature...   Jul 30 2004, 17:28
- - sven_Bent   dman hope the fix the big gaps/clicks between mp3...   Jul 30 2004, 18:25


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