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foo_dumb, experimental new modplugin, by Kode54
deus-ex
post Sep 9 2004, 22:54
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Hello Kode54,

its me (deus-ex) again. smile.gif

You introduced a new modplugin named foo_dumb. I gave it a test run against foo_mod right away (just downloaded latest version 9.9.2004).
In comparison its soundoutput is not as clear as foo_mod utilizing bass.dll. It sounds softer, as if there's some textile between the speakers and
your ears. Also i found the .it-format support not as "balls on accurate" like provided with the bass.dll. I uploaded a file named Chris35b.it to
demonstrate this. At start of the second order (after ~8 sec. playtime) you'll hear a ~hiss~ sound which is intended to be there but foo_dumb
puts it too much into the foreground so that it sounds anoyingly wrong. Please also check foo_dumb with uploaded 303.it. It loses so much quality
against replaying with foo_mod.

Second file in the upload named F0x-Test.xm fails to be loaded with foo_dumb. It features some weird special undocumented Fasttracker tricks.
It does sound very uncommon but it is a very good test file i guess. Once Xmplay had problems with this file too, until i send it to Ian (Xmplay author)
so he was able and kind enough to fix it.

Visiting DUMB's homepage and checking its CVS on sourceforge it seems that the project came to halt since a very long time. Is that correct?
If so i hope you can maintain and fix the code for your plugin if necessary.
Btw., everytime you update one of your plugins i wonder what has changed. Recently you updated foo_mod (my favorite plugin) and foo_dumb
quite often though their version number did'nt change. Maybe you can put a little file_id.diz or readme.txt along with the plugin mentioning the
changes if its not too much to ask for?

One suggestion/question please: (don't beat me for asking this) biggrin.gif
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
I don't know if bass.dll/dumb library provides necessary data but is it possible to have pattern view like in Xmplay?


Edited 18-10-2004: Downloadlink as a service for new threadvisitors.
Download latest version of Foo_Dumb


Regards, deus-ex.

This post has been edited by deus-ex: Oct 18 2004, 16:19


--------------------
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deus-ex (MODLAND admin: ftp://modland.ziphoid.com)
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deus-ex
post Sep 10 2004, 21:53
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Checked updated foo_dumb v0.9.2.2. Cregaia.it issue fixed. Thank you. smile.gif

I guess you don't hear the differences as much like me because:
- i'm very familiar with the testfiles, i have them since many years
- different sound gear, hence different output result
- different opinion on what sounds ok, what not
- maybe different quality of hearing? (thats not ment as an offend)
- different taste of music

I uploaded another file were the differences should be easier to spot, i hope.

Chris50b.it <-(direct download link)
Notice the voice at the beginning shouting: "somebody scream". It sounds damped with foo_dumb. Foo_mod outputs it very clear.
Forward to ~55 sec playtime. A Guitar, distorted with resonant filters, plays in the foreground. Replay is more detailed, richer with foo_mod.

Regards, deus-ex.

P.S.: Please comment on my update info request, will you? biggrin.gif


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deus-ex (MODLAND admin: ftp://modland.ziphoid.com)
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kode54
post Sep 11 2004, 10:12
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QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 10 2004, 01:53 PM)
Chris50b.it <-(direct download link)
Notice the voice at the beginning shouting: "somebody scream". It sounds damped with foo_dumb. Foo_mod outputs it very clear.
Forward to ~55 sec playtime. A Guitar, distorted with resonant filters, plays in the foreground. Replay is more detailed, richer with foo_mod.
*

The first time that sample is played, it is combined with an embedded MIDI macro which sets the cutoff level to 64. (range 0-127) It sounds the same in both BASS and ModPlug Tracker, but DUMB's output sounds more like Impulse Tracker itself when it is equipped with a filter capable output driver. Maybe BASS doesn't support embedded MIDI macros properly. (The sample is played three times throughout the whole module, and the cutoff level is only ~50% the first time. I can send you a short sample generated by IT2.14's mono-only diskwriter.)

EDIT: Actually, with the correct S7x instrument control implemented, DUMB sounds identical to Impulse tracker with a filtering output driver, right down to the volume level. Of course, IT only outputs integer samples in the 16-bit range, so you don't have the advantage of ReplayGain scanning and correction with optional peak limiting. Without the S7x, the only real difference is six notes where it overrides the new note action to cut. (Two in pattern 41, two in 4, and two in 7. Pattern 41, which happens to be the first in the order list, also uses normal note cut, S70 background voice cut, M40 channel volume reset, and MIDI macros to reset the filter cutoff and resonance at the start. Not just for initialization, it also assumes the player/tracker will need resetting on repetition, I think.)

QUOTE
Please comment on my update info request, will you? biggrin.gif

I'll think of a way to automate update information, but I won't be including it in the ZIP files. (Well, I might. I'm not so sure everyone wants extra text files in the downloads, especially people who use them to assemble installers.) Something else for me to think about.
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deus-ex
post Sep 11 2004, 21:59
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QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 11 2004, 10:12 AM)
...DUMB's output sounds more like Impulse Tracker itself when it is equipped with a filter capable output driver. ...I can send you a short sample generated by IT2.14's mono-only diskwriter.)
Yes, you're right. I did a diskwriter test on my own, thank you. I also checked a diskwriting of 303.it. IT and Foo_Dumb replays it
without any clipping in opposite to Xmplay. I'm convinced now that foo_dumbs .it support is closer to the original than foo_mod. Very good. smile.gif

Btw., how/what system are you running IT/Diskwriter? I cannot find a way to setup EMS for IT (IT does'nt accept XMS).
I tried everything (Properties; editing config.nt to load EMS), no success. Solved it using DOSBox-Driver v.6.1, but it's very slow
though soundprocessing is'nt in use when diskwriting.
My Gear: WinXP Pro, Nforce2, 512MB, AMD Barton 2600, Terratec Aureon Space

Uploaded a new set of files, which i found to cause errors with foo_dumb.
foo_dumb Testfiles 3 <- (direct download)

.it:
Moonlit.it = clipping, flutesound at the start
s3m:
Bdp-Koro.s3m = mono s3m, wrong panning, left instead middle, seems to be the case for every mono .s3m i tested
Budda.s3m = loadfailure, it's converted from .far-format, no foobar error available
Strshine.s3m = loadfailure, dito
Phazer.s3m = clicking, first orders, IT does the same, FT2 & XMPLAY play without clicks
Satell.s3m = clipping, start area
.xm:
Jt_Smily.xm = clipping, noticable from start
Mr_Lazy.xm = wrong initial panning, too much to the right, i have one more such .xm
Whisper.xm = drum ~snare effect~ missing, FT2 and XMPLY plays them


I recognized that the Codec field is left empty when replaying .mod/.xm/.s3m. Additionally, foo_dumb does'nt report
channel numbers for .mod-files properly.

Will foo_dumb support .mtm format?
Looking forward for next release. I plan to switch to foo_dumb when the last issues can be sorted out (hopefully).

Thanks in advance, deus-ex.


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deus-ex (MODLAND admin: ftp://modland.ziphoid.com)
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kode54
post Sep 12 2004, 04:29
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[quote=deus-ex,Sep 11 2004, 01:59 PM]Btw., how/what system are you running IT/Diskwriter? I cannot find a way to setup EMS for IT (IT does'nt accept XMS).
I tried everything (Properties; editing config.nt to load EMS), no success. Solved it using DOSBox-Driver v.6.1, but it's very slow
though soundprocessing is'nt in use when diskwriting.
My Gear: WinXP Pro, Nforce2, 512MB, AMD Barton 2600, Terratec Aureon Space
*
[/quote]
DOSBox 0.61+ CVS build, dated 2004-Sep-07, from here. Yes, it is annoyingly slow. The SB16 and GUS drivers are acceptable, but lacking the resonant filters.

[quote]Moonlit.it  = clipping, flutesound at the start
*
[/quote]
I'm not sure if you mean the fact that the flute sound is a bit scrapy or not. It seems to sound the same in IT as well. As for clipping, ReplayGain scan your files before playing. This one definitely clips. I implemented sample vibrato waveform, as well as channel vibrato and tremolo waveform commands. Panbrello is still unimplemented, but probably not used by this module.

[quote]Bdp-Koro.s3m = mono s3m, wrong panning, left instead middle, seems to be the case for every mono .s3m i tested
*
[/quote]
Fixed checking the mono bit in the master volume in S3M files, and also handling mono IT files. S3M master volume is not used at all due to how it is intended to affect the output mix level compared to the master volume in Impulse Tracker modules, supposedly. ModPlug just treats this value the same as IT master volume, yet the two appear to have a different effect on the output volume. I will have to investigate this further, later.

[quote]Budda.s3m    = loadfailure, it's converted from .far-format,  no foobar error available
*
[/quote]
The empty patterns in the file do not contain enough valid data. I've "corrected" this with a bit of a hack that will fill the rest with empty rows in this case. (I can't verify the length field for sure, as ST3 itself seems to have included the length in this field, while both this file and Aryx.s3m do not include the length field in the total length.)

[quote]Strshine.s3m = loadfailure, dito
*
[/quote]
This file failed to load because it was missing a EOF character (0x1A) after the song title. The tracker version field also indicates that it was written by ScreamTracker v3.00, so that may not have been a part of the format yet. Hackfixed for now, though I may make it stricter so it only allows this with older tracker versions.

[quote]Phazer.s3m  = clicking, first orders, IT does the same, FT2 & XMPLAY play without clicks
*
[/quote]
This is a matter of FT2 and XMPlay using volume ramping, while DUMB employs only simple declicking. This will be a more complicated feature to implement.

[quote]Satell.s3m  = clipping, start area
*
[/quote]
This can probably be corrected by actually handling the master volume, but I'm not so sure treating it the same as IT master volume would be accurate to ST3's software mixer.

[quote]Jt_Smily.xm  = clipping, noticable from start
*
[/quote]
According to the console, clipping does not occur until the bass/rhythm kick in. Once again, ReplayGain scan your files. A gain offset of -6dB for unscanned files doesn't hurt, either.

[quote]Mr_Lazy.xm  = wrong initial panning, too much to the right, i have one more such .xm
*
[/quote]
Didn't know to fix XM panning slide effect translation after correcting the panning direction for IT/S3M/etc in the renderer.

Oh, and now I can't stop listening to this one.

[quote]Whisper.xm  = drum ~snare effect~ missing, FT2 and XMPLY plays them
*
[/quote]
I seem to hear a snare drum effect, at which time offset is this effect most noticeable?


[quote]I recognized that the Codec field is left empty when replaying .mod/.xm/.s3m.
*
[/quote]
Whoops, I'll have to fix this, as it currently retrieves the information from DUMB's internal signal data, which is generated by the respective loaders.

[quote]Additionally, foo_dumb does'nt report channel numbers for .mod-files properly.
*
[/quote]
Aha! I forgot to adjust DUMB's MOD loader to report the channel information, so it was just getting uninitialized data, possibly 0 in release builds, so it wouldn't report at all. Fixed.

The vibrato/tremolo wave tables for sawtooth and square waves were already in the code, only defined out and unused. I'm not sure if vibrato or tremolo commands affect background voices, or if changing the wave type for a channel is supposed to affect background voices. Oh well.

I'll have to get to panbrello and possibly volume ramping later, as they will both be rather complicated. So far, not a bad job, though.

[quote]Will foo_dumb support .mtm format?
*
[/quote]
I could add this, but for now, you can convert MTMs to smaller files with Impulse Tracker. This would also be another significant effort, although I think implementing all of the effects should be a higher priority.

[quote]Thanks in advance, deus-ex.
*
[/quote]
No problem. smile.gif Although, these missing features are really starting to get annoying. Here, and I thought I had a decent, semi-object-oriented module renderer, and then it keeps throwing me these curve balls. I'll mold this thing yet. (And/or help perfect BASS/XMPlay with differences that turn out to be Ian's problem. smile.gif)
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Posts in this topic
- deus-ex   foo_dumb   Sep 9 2004, 22:54
- - kode54   Chris35b.it doesn't sound much different from ...   Sep 9 2004, 23:46
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 9 2004, 11:46 PM)Chris35b...   Sep 10 2004, 00:32
- - lll9p_1   Where can i download it?   Sep 10 2004, 05:48
|- - Silverbolt   QUOTE (lll9p_1 @ Sep 9 2004, 08:48 PM)Where c...   Sep 10 2004, 06:31
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.1.Fixed infinite running / load-ti...   Sep 10 2004, 10:23
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 10 2004, 10:23 AM)Uploade...   Sep 10 2004, 11:56
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.2.Fixed panning slide/shift effect...   Sep 10 2004, 14:39
- - deus-ex   Checked updated foo_dumb v0.9.2.2. Cregaia.it issu...   Sep 10 2004, 21:53
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 10 2004, 01:53 PM)C...   Sep 11 2004, 10:12
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 11 2004, 10:12 AM)...DUMB...   Sep 11 2004, 21:59
|- - kode54   DOSBox 0.61+ CVS build, dated 2004-Sep-07, from h...   Sep 12 2004, 04:29
- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 12 2004, 04:29 AM)DOSBox ...   Sep 12 2004, 14:25
- - bleh   I might as well join the party and point out that ...   Sep 12 2004, 18:03
- - kode54   Not accessasble because of a 'two posting...   Sep 13 2004, 10:31
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 13 2004, 10:31 AM)...now ...   Sep 13 2004, 13:34
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 13 2004, 01:34 PM)Q...   Sep 14 2004, 11:28
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 14 2004, 03:28 AM)-...   Sep 15 2004, 06:19
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 15 2004, 06:19 AM)I can t...   Sep 15 2004, 13:35
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 15 2004, 05:35 AM)Q...   Sep 15 2004, 18:42
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 15 2004, 06:42 PM)Which, ...   Sep 15 2004, 20:05
- - bleh   Okay, envelope carry is cool now in the quick exam...   Sep 13 2004, 13:48
|- - kode54   QUOTE (bleh @ Sep 13 2004, 05:48 AM)Okay, env...   Sep 13 2004, 17:49
- - deus-ex   Version 0.9.2.4 crashed on some .it-files here too...   Sep 13 2004, 20:24
- - bleh   1. Cool, the crash is fixed on my system as well....   Sep 13 2004, 21:17
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (bleh @ Sep 13 2004, 09:17 PM)2.  The I...   Sep 13 2004, 23:00
- - bleh   Whoa, I'm sorry, I've been listening with ...   Sep 13 2004, 23:39
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.6.Corrected sample offset for PTM ...   Sep 14 2004, 03:00
- - holox   You can get Dosbox cvs compiles from CVS Compile w...   Sep 14 2004, 13:02
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (holox @ Sep 14 2004, 01:02 PM)You can ...   Sep 14 2004, 13:36
- - deus-ex   Jos-Dr4k.xm fails to load both with foo_dumb and f...   Sep 15 2004, 17:51
- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 15 2004, 12:05 PM)Q...   Sep 16 2004, 09:27
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 16 2004, 09:27 AM)I'v...   Sep 16 2004, 13:55
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 16 2004, 05:55 AM)Q...   Sep 16 2004, 16:36
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 16 2004, 04:36 PM)Which q...   Sep 16 2004, 19:31
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Sep 16 2004, 11:31 AM)1...   Sep 17 2004, 10:15
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 17 2004, 10:15 AM)I was p...   Sep 17 2004, 12:27
- - bleh   QUOTE HAHA, the OKT format is just another MOD-lik...   Sep 17 2004, 13:42
|- - kode54   QUOTE (bleh @ Sep 17 2004, 05:42 AM)QUOTE HAH...   Sep 17 2004, 17:16
- - ep0ch   I don't suppose it will be possible to get the...   Sep 17 2004, 14:36
- - GenjuroXL   I think supporting DW would mean emulating an m68k...   Sep 17 2004, 16:55
- - deus-ex   Open Cubic Player 2.60pre6 sources also contain co...   Sep 17 2004, 17:33
- - kode54   QUOTE (ep0ch @ Sep 17 2004, 06:36 AM)I don...   Sep 17 2004, 17:34
- - jsheridan   Invalid behaviour with this   Sep 17 2004, 18:52
- - deus-ex   Rezipped DISCVRY.MOD for everyone who can't ac...   Sep 17 2004, 21:08
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.9.Implemented Xxx panning effect b...   Sep 18 2004, 02:11
- - jsheridan   Invalid playback starting from 1:01 (only one stri...   Sep 18 2004, 11:46
- - deus-ex   Trauma.okt wont load with v0.9.2.9. It's the o...   Sep 18 2004, 17:21
- - bleh   That's other, "other," OKT format I ...   Sep 18 2004, 18:43
- - deus-ex   Trauma.okt can be played with Winamp In_Mod and Op...   Sep 18 2004, 20:07
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.10.S3M reader now disposes of effe...   Sep 19 2004, 19:31
|- - jsheridan   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 19 2004, 10:31 AM)Uploade...   Sep 19 2004, 21:34
- - deus-ex   Acknowleged, Algory.ptm playback is better than wh...   Sep 20 2004, 22:29
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.10.1.Initializes channel sample nu...   Sep 21 2004, 04:06
- - deus-ex   Warswa.xm replay fixed, thank you. Found some prob...   Sep 21 2004, 17:56
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.11.Implemented PSM format reader. ...   Sep 22 2004, 02:46
- - deus-ex   All .mod-format problems fixed. The PSM format us...   Sep 22 2004, 16:43
- - T&L   Hi, there's a problem playing tense.s3m (music...   Sep 22 2004, 21:20
|- - foosion   QUOTE (T&L @ Sep 22 2004, 10:20 PM)It see...   Sep 22 2004, 21:57
|- - kode54   QUOTE (T&L @ Sep 22 2004, 01:20 PM)Hi, th...   Sep 22 2004, 23:49
|- - T&L   QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 23 2004, 01:49 AM)If you ...   Sep 23 2004, 22:07
- - deus-ex   Output of PSM format sounds excellent, better than...   Sep 25 2004, 15:18
- - kode54   Just what I always wanted, a PSM with multiple SON...   Sep 26 2004, 04:00
- - deus-ex   Game "Silverball", 01-TITLE.S3M, a conve...   Sep 26 2004, 12:54
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.12.Extended PSM reader to support ...   Sep 27 2004, 15:20
- - deus-ex   All previously reported problems fixed. Subsong fe...   Sep 28 2004, 15:43
- - kode54   Subsong index is conveniently a core feature, so y...   Sep 29 2004, 08:21
- - T&L   Can't download the plugin from kode54's si...   Sep 29 2004, 17:15
- - deus-ex   Kode54's plugin site is temporarily unavailabl...   Sep 29 2004, 19:50
- - deus-ex   Thanks for hinting the %_subsong% variable. That...   Sep 30 2004, 13:23
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.12.2.Removed checkpoint list / len...   Sep 30 2004, 16:04
- - deus-ex   This Examples demonstrate several problems i found...   Oct 1 2004, 12:00
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.2.13.Changed subsong scanner to chec...   Oct 1 2004, 18:07
- - deus-ex   Here goes next round for v0.9.2.13: Providing down...   Oct 2 2004, 15:13
|- - kode54   Nonexisting Subsong:ninja philosophy.it - Silent p...   Oct 2 2004, 18:36
- - deus-ex   Allright, all v0.9.2.13 probs sorted. Regarding ...   Oct 2 2004, 19:57
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Oct 2 2004, 11:57 AM)Al...   Oct 2 2004, 23:33
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Oct 2 2004, 11:33 PM)I've...   Oct 3 2004, 12:27
- - nIRV   could you indicate a place where I could download ...   Oct 3 2004, 13:10
|- - Case   QUOTE (nIRV @ Oct 3 2004, 03:10 PM)could you ...   Oct 3 2004, 13:15
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.3.Old PSM format support.MTM support...   Oct 4 2004, 07:32
- - deus-ex   Woah, you're updating faster than i can follow...   Oct 4 2004, 14:14
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.3.2.Removed part of my last NNA chan...   Oct 4 2004, 14:31
- - deus-ex   What the f...? You killed Lucky Luke. Pushed some...   Oct 4 2004, 14:56
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.3.3.Fixed glissando control, it was ...   Oct 4 2004, 16:14
- - deus-ex   Ok, .mtm crashes sorted. All the .mtm's of my ...   Oct 4 2004, 16:43
|- - kode54   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Oct 4 2004, 08:43 AM)Ad...   Oct 4 2004, 17:08
- - deus-ex   I recommend to use In_Adlib.dll along with the Win...   Oct 5 2004, 15:15
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (deus-ex @ Oct 5 2004, 03:15 PM)Th...   Oct 7 2004, 19:50
- - bigboo   HI I just tested your new mod plug-in and it seem...   Oct 5 2004, 22:30
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.3.4.Fixed pitch pan separation for n...   Oct 6 2004, 03:44
|- - deus-ex   QUOTE (kode54 @ Oct 6 2004, 03:44 AM)QUOTE DS...   Oct 6 2004, 16:40
- - bigboo   Thanks for all those detailled infos and the quick...   Oct 6 2004, 13:22
- - kode54   My friend just checked 16th intro.mod, the first ...   Oct 6 2004, 15:00
|- - bigboo   QUOTE (kode54 @ Oct 6 2004, 04:00 PM)My frien...   Oct 6 2004, 15:19
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.3.6.Fixed volume swing, which is rel...   Oct 7 2004, 00:04
- - deus-ex   No need to investigate further, with v0.9.3.6 all ...   Oct 7 2004, 14:20
- - deus-ex   Hello (fading echo: hello... hello... hello...), a...   Oct 14 2004, 14:30
- - kode54   Uploaded v0.9.4.Implemented mostly dodgy volume ra...   Oct 14 2004, 23:13
- - deus-ex   First listening test with volume ramping enabled s...   Oct 15 2004, 16:42
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