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Topic: What the transparent SNR? (Read 4427 times) previous topic - next topic
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What the transparent SNR?

We can have the SNR value for most portable players.
The better audio quality for higher SNR value.
But what is the transparent SNR for general consumers?

What the transparent SNR?

Reply #1 –
This depends on the type of music you are listening to.
If you like heavily compressed tracks then 60 dB should be enough (yes really!), but for classical music > 70 dB is necessary.

What the transparent SNR?

Reply #2 –
With closed headphones late at night when everything is quiet playing back white noise I found it impossible to detect the white noise when it was around -70 dB, I used -14 db as a reference. But for recording you need headroom since you will be adding compression and eq and other stuff that can boost the gain and make the noise auible.

What the transparent SNR?

Reply #3 –
Values mentioned here are too high by far. Modern clipressed musc is so loud that 40dB is enough for sure. (FM radio has ~40dB) Even classical music has never more than 50dB dynamic range (which is very very much).
It also depends on how you messure the noise --- peak/average volume, RMS window, frequency content. I think replaygain/wavegain is an easy way for us to get rid of the frequency problem, since it takes care for it-messures the perceived loudness.
I know that I know nothing. But how can I then know that ?

What the transparent SNR?

Reply #4 –
Really? Thats rather interesting. So is there anything really noticable between say 90 and 100dB (theoretically), in quiet listening conditions with a good pair of headphones?

Most DAP's seem to have around 95dB SNR (or thats what's advertised at least). So is this a general measure of audio quality from various devices then?

EDIT - Just read markanini's post, and what he says (about equalisers etc) pretty much makes sense and explains why they generally need a high SNR ratio on various devices
<==== Hydrogen Audio Bomb

What the transparent SNR?

Reply #5 –
My favorite dynamic range test piece is "Monochrome" from "Best of Kodo"
It has about a 5 minute percussion crescendo which at the start has *peaks* of roughly -75 dB,  so 20 dB more than that would be good.  It is as much a challenge in controlling ambient noise as the audio system's SNR. 


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Values mentioned here are too high by far. Modern clipressed musc is so loud that 40dB is enough for sure. (FM radio has ~40dB)


With a good signal and an excellent tuner you can get  ~75dB stereo, which is also roughly the limit for LP's.




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Most DAP's seem to have around 95dB SNR (or thats what's advertised at least). So is this a general measure of audio quality from various devices then?
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THere's a catch there... the SNR is generally aganst a 0 dB point at the full power the player can put out.  If the player has a lot of power you will probably have the volume turned down 20 or 30 dB, but the noise floor doesn't go down when you turn the volume down(at least that's been my experience with a few noisy players).  So you are effectively cutting that much off your SNR.  Ironically, a player with more power will end up sounding worse than a less powerful one with the same SNR.

The best solution I know is to use phones with an inline volume control which cuts the noise as well as the signal.

What the transparent SNR?

Reply #6 –
Quote
So is there anything really noticable between say 90 and 100dB (theoretically), in quiet listening conditions with a good pair of headphones?

I surely doubt that I could ABX the difference under ideal conditions (studio conditions-no air current, no equipment noise, no respiration  -90dBFS is so incredibly silent. (0dB should be fixed to the same SPL value-the loudest SPL without making me deaf)
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Most DAP's seem to have around 95dB SNR (or thats what's advertised at least). So is this a general measure of audio quality from various devices then?

What I mean is that all the good harware capabilities are just irrelevant because the "software" (the music in this case) has so horribly bad quality. On my FM radio example, if the music is momentarily loud (no fade in/out), I can't here the noise during the "music"...

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With a good signal and an excellent tuner you can get ~75dB stereo, which is also roughly the limit for LP's.

It depends on how you measure SNR. My 40dB is just a rough (unweighted) RMS value and doesn't take care of the frequency content. I'd like to know the exact meaning of "unweighted"...
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My favorite dynamic range test piece is "Monochrome" from "Best of Kodo"
It has about a 5 minute percussion crescendo which at the start has *peaks* of roughly -75 dB, so 20 dB more than that would be good. It is as much a challenge in controlling ambient noise as the audio system's SNR.

Most likely this is a candidate for your personal century top10 of best sounding recordings ever made...  With drums & percussion you can get indeed 75dB dynamics-but nothing that doesn't fit into ~115dB dynamic range of 16bit (ideal dither!)
I know that I know nothing. But how can I then know that ?

What the transparent SNR?

Reply #7 –
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Most likely this is a candidate for your personal century top10 of best sounding recordings ever made...   With drums & percussion you can get indeed 75dB dynamics-but nothing that doesn't fit into ~115dB dynamic range of 16bit (ideal dither!)
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I would guess the limiting factor for most portables is not number of bits, but noise from digital circuits leaking into analog amp stages.  That's why the volume control doesn't help cut the noise.

What the transparent SNR?

Reply #8 –
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I would guess the limiting factor for most portables is not number of bits, but noise from digital circuits leaking into analog amp stages.  That's why the volume control doesn't help cut the noise.
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Does it exist a method to measure the SNR for any portable players?
If the answer is no, how the customers to select a player with good quality?

What the transparent SNR?

Reply #9 –
You could use RMAA.