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Flac Doesn't Let Me Embed This Cuesheet, What's wrong with it?
smz
post Feb 6 2005, 13:43
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Flac (1.1.2) doesn't let me embed the follwing cuesheet

CODE
PERFORMER "Performer Name"
TITLE "Album Title"
FILE "mytestfile.wav" WAVE
 TRACK 01 AUDIO
   TITLE "Track01 Title"
   PERFORMER "Performer Name"
   INDEX 01 00:00:00

   ...

with this error:

CODE
ERROR initializing encoder
state= FLAC_STREAM_ENCODER_INVALID_METADATA


Is this a bug or there is something wrong with my cuesheet that I can't spot?

Cheers

Sergio


Edit: spelling. If also a mod could fix the topic title... thanks! (Done, thanks to the mod!)

Edit2: removed great part of the cuesheet as the problem was not with it (see subsequent posts), to make the thread more readable.

Edit3: Modified cuesheet example so that RIAA doesn't sue me, in case I die...

This post has been edited by smz: Feb 9 2005, 02:34


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kjoonlee
post Feb 10 2005, 12:51
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The cuesheet format screams out "CD-DA". Timestamps are in CD frames.

Hence the checking.


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smz
post Feb 10 2005, 13:17
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QUOTE (kjoonlee @ Feb 10 2005, 12:51 PM)
The cuesheet format screams out "CD-DA". Timestamps are in CD frames.

Hence the checking.
*

Correct. We are not talking about screwing up the cuesheet standard introducing the possiblity to add non frame aligned timestamps, not at all. We are talking about a lossless codec arbitrarily adding (virtual) data at the end of a stream. Not very lossless, IMHO.

@rjamorim:
I think this fact should be evidenced in your "Which is the best lossless codec?" thread . Don't you? And while I'm at that, though totally OT, I think that also the borked LA foobar component should be evidenced there.

Sergio

Edit: spelling. Sh*t, my english is getting worse and worse... sad.gif

This post has been edited by smz: Feb 10 2005, 13:22


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rjamorim
post Feb 12 2005, 03:24
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QUOTE (smz @ Feb 10 2005, 10:17 AM)
Correct. We are not talking about screwing up the cuesheet standard introducing the possiblity to add non frame aligned timestamps, not at all. We are talking about a lossless codec arbitrarily adding (virtual) data at the end of a stream. Not very lossless, IMHO.


It's up to the lossless decoder to decide what to do at the end if there's a misalignment. I would believe any sane decoder would just stop decoding no matter if the CUE claims there should be data ahead of the end. What would be the practical purpose of filling the decode/playback with zeroes anyway?

QUOTE
@rjamorim:
I think this fact should be evidenced in your "Which is the best lossless codec?" thread . Don't you?


I don't. I think it's completely outside of the scope of a lossless codec to decide whether to accept a CUE sheet or not based on the amount of samples.

What now, will FLAC also refuse to embed CUE sheets on tracks at 48khz? Or at 24 bit depth? Because these aren't CDDA for sure.

WavPack isn't anal about this subject because David doesn't try to know better than the user. He knows damn well audio editors can create cue sheets, completely misaligned and on audio tracks not following CDDA. He also knows that an user may have a wav+cue rip, decide to cut a part of the ending of the file (for ANY reason he deemed appropriate - David isn't judging) and then decided to embed the cuesheet. Samples will be missing at the end, but so what? I think the users are smart enough to take their own decidions. And even if they aren't, it's not up to the lossless codec to take that decision. That is a very arrogant and paternalistic behaviour, IMO.


QUOTE
And while I'm at that, though totally OT, I think that also the borked LA foobar component should be evidenced there.


I might make a note about it on the LA entry, but I won't put it on the cons. It's not the codec that is broken - it's the interface made to interact foobar and the decoder. If the decoder itself was broken, it would be a different story altogether...


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smz
post Feb 12 2005, 03:38
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 12 2005, 03:24 AM)
QUOTE
@rjamorim:
I think this fact should be evidenced in your "Which is the best lossless codec?" thread . Don't you?


I don't. I think it's completely outside of the scope of a lossless codec to decide whether to accept a CUE sheet or not based on the amount of samples.
*


I didn't explain myself well... I think that this cuesheet embedding issue should be accounted between the "cons"...

QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 12 2005, 03:24 AM)
QUOTE
And while I'm at that, though totally OT, I think that also the borked LA foobar component should be evidenced there.


I might make a note about it on the LA entry, but I won't put it on the cons. It's not the codec that is broken - it's the interface made to interact foobar and the decoder. If the decoder itself was broken, it would be a different story altogether...
*



I agree: just a WARNING

This post has been edited by smz: Feb 12 2005, 03:39


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rjamorim
post Feb 12 2005, 17:11
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QUOTE (smz @ Feb 12 2005, 12:38 AM)
I didn't explain myself well... I think that this cuesheet embedding issue should be accounted between the "cons"...


Well, I don't think the cons would be the right place, since it's not a problem in the codec itself - it's a frontend issue.

But I agree, a warning about the frontend being too anal would have its worth.

QUOTE
I agree: just a WARNING
*


Right smile.gif

I'll work on it ASAP. I'll add some more info to the table as well.


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Posts in this topic
- smz   Flac Doesn't Let Me Embed This Cuesheet   Feb 6 2005, 13:43
- - BruRob   Your third line reads: FILE "Nearness of You-...   Feb 6 2005, 14:56
|- - smz   QUOTE (BruRob @ Feb 6 2005, 03:56 PM)Your thi...   Feb 6 2005, 15:23
|- - smz   Sorry to bump this post, but I think I have some (...   Feb 6 2005, 20:11
|- - jcoalson   I probably cannot tell anything without having the...   Feb 7 2005, 05:28
|- - smz   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Feb 7 2005, 06:28 AM)I prob...   Feb 7 2005, 12:32
|- - lexor   QUOTE (smz @ Feb 7 2005, 03:32 AM)QUOTE (jcoa...   Feb 7 2005, 13:44
|- - smz   QUOTE (lexor @ Feb 7 2005, 02:44 PM)try and s...   Feb 7 2005, 14:16
|- - smz   Does anybody knows a tool to validate the structur...   Feb 8 2005, 12:04
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (smz @ Feb 8 2005, 09:04 AM)Does anybod...   Feb 8 2005, 13:21
- - Synthetic Soul   I just tested your WAVE and CUE and got the same r...   Feb 8 2005, 13:21
- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 8 2005, 12:21 PM)QUOTE ...   Feb 8 2005, 13:33
- - jcoalson   I see the problem, but I'm not sure what to do...   Feb 8 2005, 19:04
|- - smz   Josh, thank-you for analyzing the problem. Here a...   Feb 9 2005, 02:26
- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (smz @ Feb 9 2005, 01:26 AM)QUOTE (jcoa...   Feb 9 2005, 11:23
- - kjoonlee   IMHO the assumption(s) that flac and metaflac make...   Feb 9 2005, 15:22
|- - smz   QUOTE (kjoonlee @ Feb 9 2005, 03:22 PM)... Th...   Feb 9 2005, 15:41
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (kjoonlee @ Feb 9 2005, 12:22 PM)One vo...   Feb 9 2005, 18:04
- - jcoalson   the majority of cuesheet use is via cuesheets ripp...   Feb 9 2005, 18:56
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Feb 9 2005, 03:56 PM)the ma...   Feb 9 2005, 19:01
- - kjoonlee   The cuesheet format screams out "CD-DA"....   Feb 10 2005, 12:51
|- - smz   QUOTE (kjoonlee @ Feb 10 2005, 12:51 PM)The c...   Feb 10 2005, 13:17
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (smz @ Feb 10 2005, 10:17 AM)Correct. W...   Feb 12 2005, 03:24
|- - smz   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 12 2005, 03:24 AM)QUOTE...   Feb 12 2005, 03:38
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (smz @ Feb 12 2005, 12:38 AM)I didn...   Feb 12 2005, 17:11
- - m0rbidini   I agree with rjamorim and smz. FLAC is making assu...   Feb 10 2005, 13:18
- - m0rbidini   Er, correction. I wrote: QUOTE Cue sheets don...   Feb 10 2005, 13:25
- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (m0rbidini @ Feb 10 2005, 12:25 PM)...   Feb 10 2005, 13:46
- - jcoalson   how is the cuesheet duration specified if there is...   Feb 10 2005, 16:24
- - Synthetic Soul   Point taken. You could ascertain whether the last...   Feb 10 2005, 16:30
- - m0rbidini   Meh, I had it "more or less right" the f...   Feb 11 2005, 15:09
- - Synthetic Soul   Actually, on re-reading, I think you said it just ...   Feb 11 2005, 15:23
|- - smz   I would like to make with you all a sanity check o...   Feb 12 2005, 01:23
|- - smz   One more consideration: If foobar2000 easly accep...   Feb 12 2005, 02:16
|- - rjamorim   ...   Feb 12 2005, 03:28
- - jcoalson   following up, this is changed in CVS, output now l...   Aug 24 2005, 01:27
- - Synthetic Soul   Thanks Josh. As you say, it's up to the user ...   Aug 24 2005, 09:40


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