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Statistics For Abx
ff123
post Aug 27 2002, 16:58
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Hopefully in the near future, I can implement an indicator of whether or not a listener should continue to perform ABX testing based on certain specified parameters:

alpha: probability of stating that a difference occurs when it does not (this is the parameter we are typically concerned with, which is usually set to 0.05)

beta: probability of stating that no difference occurs when it does

p0: the expected proportion of correct decisions when the samples are identical (0.5 for ABX)

p1: the expected proportion of correct decisions when the odd sample is detected (other than by guess).

We have historically not concerned ourselves with beta and p1, but I think it would be advantageous to do so for tests of very subtle differences.

ff123
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Posts in this topic
- ff123   Statistics For Abx   Aug 27 2002, 16:58
- - Continuum   Is this related to my question concerning guessing...   Aug 27 2002, 18:51
- - ff123   Ideally, I would pop up a graph with the y axis sh...   Aug 27 2002, 20:57
- - Guest   ff13, You may want to consider expressing the run...   Aug 27 2002, 21:52
- - shday   ... hmm, I can post when not logged in??? ff123, ...   Aug 27 2002, 21:54
- - ff123   Well, it turns out I don't understand the stat...   Aug 28 2002, 07:28
- - Delirium   I don't have my statistics books with me and i...   Aug 28 2002, 10:24
- - ff123   I guess what I'm having trouble understanding ...   Aug 28 2002, 14:50
- - ff123   One more thing, Table 1 on the page I listed above...   Aug 28 2002, 16:49
- - shday   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 28 2002, 09:50 AM)I guess ...   Aug 28 2002, 16:49
- - ff123   I didn't understand the previous thread then, ...   Aug 28 2002, 17:15
- - Continuum   QUOTE (shday @ Aug 27 2002, 10:54 PM)... hmm,...   Aug 28 2002, 20:16
- - Continuum   Situation 1: the number of trials is determined. D...   Aug 28 2002, 20:23
- - ff123   Here is a web page of the clearest explanation I h...   Aug 28 2002, 23:45
- - shday   QUOTE (Continuum @ Aug 28 2002, 03:16 PM)shda...   Aug 29 2002, 00:45
- - shday   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 28 2002, 06:45 PM)The best...   Aug 29 2002, 02:01
- - Continuum   I just did a quick calculation using a modified pa...   Aug 29 2002, 08:22
- - ff123   I hacked a quick and dirty sequential ABX simulato...   Aug 29 2002, 08:59
- - Continuum   I've wrote a program for evaluating the correc...   Aug 29 2002, 12:14
- - ff123   I think I'll probably create several different...   Aug 29 2002, 15:43
- - ff123   One more thing: I'm not sure if it hurts to l...   Aug 29 2002, 16:35
- - shday   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 29 2002, 11:35 AM)One more...   Aug 29 2002, 17:10
- - ff123   QUOTE If you want the tool to be statistically sou...   Aug 29 2002, 18:27
- - Continuum   QUOTE The best way to minimize this problem would ...   Aug 29 2002, 20:11
- - ff123   Here is the lookup table I would use for the 28-tr...   Aug 29 2002, 20:25
- - shday   QUOTE (shday @ Aug 29 2002, 12:10 PM)QUOTE (f...   Aug 29 2002, 22:21
- - shday   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 29 2002, 01:27 PM)Are ther...   Aug 29 2002, 23:31
- - ff123   QUOTE (shday @ Aug 29 2002, 02:31 PM)QUOTE P...   Aug 30 2002, 00:20
- - shday   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 29 2002, 07:20 PM)To answe...   Aug 30 2002, 00:51
- - ff123   QUOTE (shday @ Aug 29 2002, 03:51 PM)Sorry if...   Aug 30 2002, 01:46
- - shday   I guess most of the time a tester wouldn't be ...   Aug 30 2002, 02:35
- - ff123   QUOTE (shday @ Aug 29 2002, 05:35 PM)I'd ...   Aug 30 2002, 03:20
- - Continuum   Here's a new version of the Excel-sheet. It al...   Aug 30 2002, 09:40
- - Continuum   QUOTE (shday @ Aug 29 2002, 11:21 PM)It is tr...   Aug 30 2002, 12:52
- - Continuum   This should be a mode that allows 5/5 with total s...   Aug 30 2002, 12:54
- - ff123   QUOTE (Continuum @ Aug 30 2002, 03:54 AM)This...   Aug 30 2002, 13:27
- - shday   QUOTE (Continuum @ Aug 30 2002, 07:52 AM)On d...   Aug 30 2002, 16:04
- - shday   QUOTE (Continuum @ Aug 30 2002, 07:52 AM)QUOT...   Aug 30 2002, 16:12
- - ff123   QUOTE (Continuum @ Aug 30 2002, 12:40 AM)The ...   Aug 30 2002, 17:19
- - Continuum   QUOTE How about something like the following, wher...   Aug 30 2002, 17:36
- - Continuum   QUOTE (shday @ Aug 30 2002, 05:12 PM)QUOTE (C...   Aug 30 2002, 17:40
- - ff123   I have uploaded an updated binary to: http://ff123...   Aug 30 2002, 17:52
- - shday   QUOTE (Continuum @ Aug 30 2002, 12:40 PM)It d...   Aug 30 2002, 17:57
- - ff123   I've been comparing the simulation vs. the bin...   Aug 30 2002, 19:54
- - ff123   QUOTE (Continuum @ Aug 30 2002, 12:40 AM)QUOT...   Aug 30 2002, 21:42
- - Continuum   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 30 2002, 06:52 PM)But in a...   Aug 30 2002, 21:44
- - ff123   QUOTE (Continuum @ Aug 30 2002, 12:44 PM)QUOT...   Aug 30 2002, 22:10
- - ff123   I've been thinking some more about the in-betw...   Aug 30 2002, 22:17
- - ff123   Ok, here is my corrected 28-trials profile CODE10...   Aug 30 2002, 22:51
- - ff123   I updated seqsimsource.zip and seqsim.zip on my we...   Aug 30 2002, 23:37
- - shday   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 30 2002, 05:10 PM)As I sai...   Aug 31 2002, 00:01
- - ff123   QUOTE (shday @ Aug 30 2002, 03:01 PM)QUOTE (f...   Aug 31 2002, 00:31
- - shday   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 30 2002, 12:52 PM)Any thou...   Aug 31 2002, 02:24
- - ff123   QUOTE (shday @ Aug 30 2002, 05:24 PM)QUOTE (f...   Aug 31 2002, 02:40
- - ff123   Investigating the rand() error a little further, t...   Aug 31 2002, 03:16
- - Continuum   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 31 2002, 12:37 AM)But goin...   Aug 31 2002, 09:40
- - Continuum   First Step: Interprete Pascal triangle as abx resu...   Aug 31 2002, 09:44
- - ff123   I still don't know why the simulation doesn...   Aug 31 2002, 18:56
- - Continuum   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 31 2002, 07:56 PM)I still ...   Aug 31 2002, 20:57
- - ff123   QUOTE (Continuum @ Aug 31 2002, 11:57 AM)at l...   Aug 31 2002, 23:48
- - ff123   Yay! I made up my own spreadsheet using the P...   Sep 1 2002, 03:54
- - Continuum   So there is a mistake in the code. If you can find...   Sep 1 2002, 09:21
- - ff123   Great! The code looks like it should be very ...   Sep 1 2002, 16:53
- - Continuum   Another thing to consider is, that this test allow...   Sep 1 2002, 18:36
- - shday   I think this is a major improvement to ABX testing...   Sep 1 2002, 20:33
- - Continuum   QUOTE (ff123 @ Aug 30 2002 - 11:17 PM)I'v...   Sep 2 2002, 07:43
- - ff123   I'm having difficulty understanding your point...   Sep 2 2002, 16:36
- - Continuum   QUOTE (ff123 @ Sep 2 2002 - 05:36 PM)I'm ...   Sep 2 2002, 17:29
- - ff123   Here's how I was calculating the in-between po...   Sep 2 2002, 17:58
- - Continuum   QUOTE (ff123 @ Sep 2 2002 - 06:58 PM)Ok, I...   Sep 2 2002, 18:19
- - ff123   Regarding trials 1-4, I am thinking about how I ha...   Sep 2 2002, 18:19
- - ff123   QUOTE (Continuum @ Sep 2 2002 - 09:19 AM)Yes,...   Sep 2 2002, 18:25
- - Continuum   QUOTE (ff123 @ Sep 2 2002 - 07:25 PM)I'm ...   Sep 2 2002, 18:59
- - ff123   How should one modify the simulation? Right now t...   Sep 2 2002, 19:40
- - Continuum   QUOTE (ff123 @ Sep 2 2002 - 08:40 PM)How shou...   Sep 2 2002, 20:07
- - ff123   I still don't see the problem. The listener c...   Sep 2 2002, 20:21
- - Continuum   QUOTE The listener can decide to stop at any in-be...   Sep 2 2002, 20:42
- - ff123   Overall type 1 risk = overall alpha. The probabil...   Sep 2 2002, 20:54
- - Continuum   QUOTE The current optimum strategy for a listener ...   Sep 2 2002, 21:29
- - ff123   Looks like If one has 12/18, it is optimum to sto...   Sep 2 2002, 22:22
- - Continuum   QUOTE If one has 12/18, it is optimum to stop at t...   Sep 3 2002, 06:45
- - ff123   QUOTE (Continuum @ Sep 2 2002 - 09:45 PM)What...   Sep 3 2002, 15:10
- - ff123   Probably the best solution is to disallow stop poi...   Sep 3 2002, 15:28
- - Continuum   I think the easiest and savest method would be to ...   Sep 3 2002, 15:44
- - ff123   QUOTE (Continuum @ Sep 3 2002 - 06:44 AM)I th...   Sep 3 2002, 15:49
- - Continuum   Hybrid version - sounds interesting! Especial...   Sep 3 2002, 15:58
- - shday   Allowing in-between stops increases the chances of...   Sep 3 2002, 22:57
- - ff123   Good point about the type 2 error, although the 28...   Sep 4 2002, 02:03
- - ff123   The table brings up an interesting point. Should ...   Sep 4 2002, 04:26
- - Continuum   QUOTE (ff123 @ Posted on Sep 4 2002 - 03:03 A...   Sep 4 2002, 06:42
- - ff123   duplicate post   Sep 4 2002, 06:59
- - ff123   QUOTE Hmm, couldn't that lead to incorrect con...   Sep 4 2002, 07:00
- - Continuum   QUOTE However, the converse (program forces the li...   Sep 4 2002, 07:13
- - ff123   I think it is enough to display what the overall a...   Sep 4 2002, 07:45
- - Continuum   QUOTE I think it is enough to display what the ove...   Sep 4 2002, 08:02
- - shday   I think the test should be strictly pass or fail. ...   Sep 4 2002, 14:05
- - Continuum   QUOTE (shday @ Posted on Sep 4 2002 - 03:05 P...   Sep 4 2002, 14:40
- - ff123   I still don't see the problem with calculating...   Sep 4 2002, 15:26
- - ff123   QUOTE (Continuum @ Sep 3 2002 - 11:02 PM)Woul...   Sep 4 2002, 15:29
- - ff123   I think shday's idea is a good one. I think w...   Sep 4 2002, 17:01
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